Why does anybody care about Vault rankings? Forum

[stego]

I hear a lot on TLS about how meaningless Vault rankings are. So why are they even a thing? What are they based on?

[sublime]

..

[stego]

Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.

What do the surveys ask? "In your subjective opinion, how preftigious is the law firm you currently work for?"

[RaceJudicata]

PRESTIGE!!!!

[Burlington4174]

I hear a lot on TLS about how meaningless Vault rankings are. So why are they even a thing? What are they based on?

They reflect firm prestige. Because perception does matter, putting aside whether or not it should, vault rankings correlate, to at least some extent, with the quality of work, client quality, and exit options. People also care because many of us value prestige in and of itself -- whether or not it makes sense to do so.

[jkpolk]

Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.

What do the surveys ask? "In your subjective opinion, how preftigious is the law firm you currently work for?"

Some of this got scooped.
Survey asks your for a "prestige" evaluation on all firms other than your own. Also asks you some questions about your firm, like "1-10, how happy are you with the firm's compensation policy?" etc. I dont think many people really care about the rankings by themselves, but they're a decent rough proxy for, well, prestige. Prestige helps you land jobs and somewhat correlates with quality, sometimes.

[Mack.Hambleton]

It roughly correlates with prestige, selectiveness, pay, exit opps, etc. But use chambers if you actually want to see a firms strengths.

[TheRealSantaClaus]

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[TheRealSantaClaus]

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[stego]

What does prestige derive from, ultimately? The perceived importance of the work the law firm does? The perceived importance of the law firm's clients?

[Mack.Hambleton]

What does prestige derive from, ultimately? The perceived importance of the work the law firm does? The perceived importance of the law firm's clients?

Revenue, PPP, complexity of work

[pancakes3]

just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.

in STEM terms, the rankings are precise but only mildly accurate.

[BigZuck]

If Vault didn't rank law firms what would autists worry about?

[rpupkin]

Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.

And the "people who work in firms" consist mostly of junior associates who work in NYC.

Imagine that the USNWR law school rankings were based entirely on the votes of 1Ls. That's basically how Vault works for law firms.

[rpupkin]

just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.

What do you think the Vault rankings are "probative" of?

[TLSModBot]

Look if I can't snobbily look down my nose at those inferior V12 people from way up high on my V9 perch, I don't even see the point of BigLaw.

[PeanutsNJam]

What happens if every TLS biglaw associate trolls the voting. Would it make a dent?

[stego]

Based on surveys of people who work in firms, I believe.

And the "people who work in firms" consist mostly of junior associates who work in NYC.

Imagine that the USNWR law school rankings were based entirely on the votes of 1Ls. That's basically how Vault works for law firms.

There ought to be an alternative to Vault rankings based solely on what junior associates who work in flyover states think. What do biglawl lawyers in Oklahoma think? That's what I want to know.

[TLSModBot]

What happens if every TLS biglaw associate trolls the voting. Would it make a dent?

Only one way to find out

[PeanutsNJam]

PPP is dumb. You boost PPP by running a sweatshop, not bringing in interesting/profitable work.

[pancakes3]

just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.

What do you think the Vault rankings are "probative" of?

Vault's rankings are by their own admission/definition, rankings of "prestige" so... prestige.

[rahulg91]

PPP is dumb. You boost PPP by running a sweatshop, not bringing in interesting/profitable work.

So RPL is the way to go? Regardless, most of the financial data is available on AmLaw. Whether that data is accurate or not is another question entirely.

[stego]

just because the rankings are perceived doesn't mean it's not probative. however just because it's probative doesn't mean it's conclusive.

What do you think the Vault rankings are "probative" of?

Vault's rankings are by their own admission/definition, rankings of "prestige" so... prestige.

But prestige itself is really just a subjective measure of other stuff.

[speed_the_loot]

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[stego]

How much (if at all) do firms care about their own Vault rankings? Do clients care about this?