I am a prospect law student.. Graduating at age 40 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Can someone get a job at age 40 at a large law firm, assuming the 1L gpa at T14 is good enough? I got a LSAT over 170+ and have a good work experience in business but I am thinking about transitioning into a new career. I am worried if I can make that leap, especially when English is not my first language. Don't get into law type of lecture would not be appreciated.

EDIT: No science/engineering background but worked at a tech company (all sorts of business stuff).

[caliguru]

Probably not. Unless you are going to do obvious patent work, like you have a PhD in chemistry, then no firm will hire you based on "fit." The fact is no one wants a 40 year old first year in a large law firm. That's just not how it works.

But second and most importantly, why the hell would you ever want to be a 40 year old first year? You'd be getting assignments from people who are 27. You'd be miles behind peers your age in terms of legal knowledge and ability. You'd be on the very bottom rung of a very high ladder. That sounds awful.

Now if you were dead set on being a public defender or something more removed from the corporate world then fine.

I hope you definitely, 100%, not a doubt in your mind, want to be a practicing attorney. I can't imagine the life-ruining decision it would be to spend a ton of money and three years on law school at that age only to discovery law is really not your thing.

[cjw564]

Someone at HYS is around your age and is summering at one of the most selective firms in the country (not a random V10 like sullcrom or cravath). S/he also has very tippy top grades and a HYPSMC phd in the hard sciences (+ years of industry experience). Age will not be your impediment, but you should think hard whether you want to go through school again with a bunch of kjds.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Probably not. Unless you are going to do obvious patent work, like you have a PhD in chemistry, then no firm will hire you based on "fit." The fact is no one wants a 40 year old first year in a large law firm. That's just not how it works.

But second and most importantly, why the hell would you ever want to be a 40 year old first year? You'd be getting assignments from people who are 27. You'd be miles behind peers your age in terms of legal knowledge and ability. You'd be on the very bottom rung of a very high ladder. That sounds awful.

Now if you were dead set on being a public defender or something more removed from the corporate world then fine.

I hope you definitely, 100%, not a doubt in your mind, want to be a practicing attorney. I can't imagine the life-ruining decision it would be to spend a ton of money and three years on law school at that age only to discovery law is really not your thing.

There are some people in some big firms who feel this way, certainly, but it's absolutely not universal. You may want to be aware that these kinds of assumptions are out there, but I think it's very possible to overcome those concerns. (Because really the age of the person giving you assignments shouldn't matter in the slightest.)

[cron1834]

Someone at HYS is around your age and is summering at one of the most selective firms in the country (not a random V10 like sullcrom or cravath). S/he also has very tippy top grades and a HYPSMC phd in the hard sciences (+ years of industry experience). Age will not be your impediment, but you should think hard whether you want to go through school again with a bunch of kjds.

Dickish prestige-whoring? Check. Irrelevant unicorn story? Check. No actual advice? Check. This one hits all the boxes.

OP, I'm younger than you but definitely a nontrad law student. It's worked out for me thus far, but I do think I had some hurdles that, say, a 23-yo wouldn't have had. The most crucial piece, in my view, is to have a compelling story/reason for your arc. I was grilled on that in interviews.

Also, if your English stinks, that's not going to help. I'd be cautious here...

[Pokemon]

Can someone get a job at age 40 at a large law firm, assuming the 1L gpa at T14 is good enough? I got a LSAT over 170+ and have a good work experience in business but I am thinking about transitioning into a new career. I am worried if I can make that leap, especially when English is not my first language. Don't get into law type of lecture would not be appreciated.

EDIT: No science/engineering background but worked at a tech company (all sorts of business stuff).

This is a tough call. I think the combination of your age with English not being your first language may cause issues. If it was just one of the two, I would not worry as much. It should not be this way, but in twenty minute interviews, they are looking for anything to limit the pool of applicants.
On the other hand, firms love people with previous corporate/business experience, so you have that.

[cjw564]

Someone at HYS is around your age and is summering at one of the most selective firms in the country (not a random V10 like sullcrom or cravath). S/he also has very tippy top grades and a HYPSMC phd in the hard sciences (+ years of industry experience). Age will not be your impediment, but you should think hard whether you want to go through school again with a bunch of kjds.

Dickish prestige-whoring? Check. Irrelevant unicorn story? Check. No actual advice? Check. This one hits all the boxes.

OP, I'm younger than you but definitely a nontrad law student. It's worked out for me thus far, but I do think I had some hurdles that, say, a 23-yo wouldn't have had. The most crucial piece, in my view, is to have a compelling story/reason for your arc. I was grilled on that in interviews.

Also, if your English stinks, that's not going to help. I'd be cautious here...

I am definitely not the person in the example, although I wish I were - there is no incentive for me to prestige whore someone else's accomplishment. It is important for OP, who obviously has very good stats for law school admission, to hear about success stories of students like him/her. This has nothing to do with prestige whoring, it is simply fact that WLRK/William & Connolly/Susman/Munger/etc. are a whole magnitude more selective than Cravath, which is an extremely good firm by any standards. If someone could get WLRK at OP's age, OP should have no problem getting Cravath (if he wants NY/corp) or top firms anywhere else.

[sublime]

..

[kcdc1]

Age-ism is a thing, but it's not insurmountable. I'd be more concerned about your language skills. Judging by your OP, your English is plenty good to succeed in just about any field -- except perhaps law, where people go ballistic over tiny mistakes. For better or worse, law is a field where native speakers have a significant advantage. Something to consider.

[180kickflip]

***please dont quote***

As an 0L who will be pushing 40 at graduation, this is pretty scary stuff. I don't have the language issues that OP is concerned with, but I have way worse work experience (bounced around doing a bunch of random stuff before settling into a job in education two years ago). I've been hoping that t10+ AA URM+ (hopefully) good grades will be enough to overcome all that, but who knows =/

[A. Nony Mouse]

It's not worth worrying about. First, you can't change it by worrying. Second, yes, there are going to be some people who will wonder if you will have a problem taking assignments from someone 10+ years younger than you. But there are also going to be other non-trad people who realize that age doesn't matter, experience matters. I don't care how old the person supervising me is. Someone who's been an attorney longer than I have has the authority/seniority to tell me what to do and of course I'm going to listen to that. Being on this earth longer doesn't somehow make me better at something I've never done before than someone who has done that thing before, for a while.

Interviewers who worry about this will probably just bring it up. If you can convincingly express that it doesn't matter to you, you want to learn and do good work, etc., it should be fine. I brought up editorial board work on LR a lot because the EIC was a KJD and we worked together swimmingly. Or moot court (my partner was also KJD - one of my best LS friends).

I won't lie, some employers (mostly big firms IME) like the new shiny young KJD grads because they consider them malleable and more easily trained to defer/do things the way that employer likes. But my experience is that it's not universal enough to keep an older student from getting a job, assuming they have all the other qualifications. And the KJD people worry about getting passed over for not having work experience.

[homestyle28]

I got a big law job out of a t-14 with roughly top third grades at OCI and was 36 at graduation. Clearly some firms cut me off b/c of age/fit/etc., but plenty of other firms thought it made me less of a flight risk. I'm not sure it's worth it to be frank, but if your question is just can you get a job if you have the credentials, then the answer is yes.

[zot1]

The 40+ y/o students I know who had top third grades for OCI got biglaw jobs. CA market. Not sure if NYC is different.

[Startled Rabbit]

I once met a v20 partner who had a really fun and unconventional job up until age 40, when he went to law school. Probably a unicorn situation, but yeah.

[gregfootball2001]

Another anecdotal piece of evidence, but I graduated from my T30-40 at 36 and got a market-paying midlaw job at the secondary market I was shooting for. As far as I know, everyone I interviewed with saw my previous (not at all legally relevant) experience as a positive. After all, I still have 30+ years of working life ahead of me.

[albanach]

Another anecdotal piece of evidence, but I graduated from my T30-40 at 36 and got a market-paying midlaw job at the secondary market I was shooting for. As far as I know, everyone I interviewed with saw my previous (not at all legally relevant) experience as a positive. After all, I still have 30+ years of working life ahead of me.

This is important. When you're in your 20s and have a couple of years work experience, 40 sounds like an eternity away. Many folk interviewing you will be in their 40s, and few will be thinking about retiring any time soon. Combine that with the fact that most folk won't stay at a firm long enough to make partner and there's little to be concerned about on the age front.

If you have a background in IT, you almost certainly have already found yourself getting assignments from folk younger than yourself. That's how the modern world rolls.

All that said, you have twice the battle when you include not having English as a first language. If you are easily understood when speaking English, you're likely to be okay. For example "I got a LSAT over 170+ and have a good work experience..." worries me a little, as there's some basic errors in there. If you speak like that, recruiters are going to worry about your written work - they can't afford to hire someone who needs their work product edited for basic language structure. You'll want to be doubly sure your writing sample is excellent.