Transfer from Harvard to Stanford Forum

[phasematch]

Redirecting my question to the correct location, thanks suralin and lymenheimer!

I am a 0L, about to start at Harvard this fall. I am very interested in transferring to Stanford in my 2L. I understand that Harvard only has Honors (=4.0), Pass (=3.0), Low Pass (=2.0), and Fail (=0) grades. Last year, there were 2 transfers from Harvard to Stanford, but the transfer GPAs at Stanford are insane (75% = 3.97, 50% = 3.78, 25% =3.67). If I can only obtain passes (GPA 3.0) at Harvard, is there no chance of a transfer to Harvard?

And yes, Stanford rejected me. I am not confident that retaking the LSAT would improve my score. I am also a non-traditional student, so I would like to start law school sooner rather than later. I am aware of the third year visiting program, but it involves petitioning the school and a maximum of 5 students are approved for visiting programs every year.

I guess I would like to know if I can somehow improve my chances at transferring to Stanford.

Thanks for any insights you might have!

[Aeon]

The best way to improve your chances of transferring is to get good grades. I'd imagine that Stanford would be willing to consider transfer applicants from Harvard with comparatively lower grades than if those applicants were from other schools, since the two are more or less peers.

Why do you want to transfer?

[throwaway_]

Seriously, just focus on grades. Which at HLS (or any other law school) translates to just grinding it out 1L year. I probably wouldn't bank on doing better than median, so I'd probably try being fine with staying at Harvard if things don't pan out. (This is the part where I roll my eyes.) And try to lock in a few professors for recommendations.

Were you expecting some other response?

[phasematch]

I was hoping if one of the two people who successfully transferred to Stanford last year might be a TLS user and can tell me how much grades matter. I want to transfer because my family (I have young children) is staying in CA... Or just to find out more about the transfer process in general....

[lymenheimer]

eta3: interesting

[SFSpartan]

Why not just go to Berkeley if S rejected you? Seems to be easier than moving across the country and then trying to move across the country, leaving your wife/husband/SO to take care of your young kids, and then trying to come back. It also will, in all likelihood, have relatively little effect on your career long term if you do well enough to transfer.

[daedalus2309]

Go to Boalt.

[phasematch]

That boat to Boalt (!) has sailed (Harvard's deadline was May 1). I did get in, but Boalt is a 4+ hours around trip commute for me. My family cannot move closer to Boalt because my spouse works in Menlo Park. Also, they never responded to my scholarship match request (or maybe it's just a rejection), and I did not want to do Boalt at sticker price. (There was/is a very interesting thread about Boalt at sticker.)

[sayan]

I would make acing law school exams your one and only focus for a year, and be efficient at studying and preparing for exams. Read TLS threads on this topic, but you can gain an edge against other HLS folks by starting earlier. Just be aware, though, that at least 33% of students in my section were gunning hard from the get go, aiming to get those Hs, so you'll have your work cut out for you.

[SFSpartan]

In that case, you should probably sit out, reapply, and hope for S next year. Or have your spouse look for one of the many tech and/or tech related jobs in Boston. Bottom line is that transferring to S is going to be difficult, and this transfer plan will likely not work out.

[$$$$$$]

Why don't you just go to Harvard, try to crush and transfer, and worst case get a SF/SV job for 2L summer and then just hang out with your family until you have to take finals your last two years? I don't think I went to more than 5% of my classes 2L and 3L year.

[Mack.Hambleton]

You can spend your 3L year there I believe, although that might just be boalt

[phasematch]

In that case, you should probably sit out, reapply, and hope for S next year. Or have your spouse look for one of the many tech and/or tech related jobs in Boston. Bottom line is that transferring to S is going to be difficult, and this transfer plan will likely not work out.

the issue with waiting out as you have suggested is that it evolves into a S-or-nothing situation. by turning down Boalt and H in this cycle, (i guess) i close the door to those two schools for the next cycle. it is just too risky that in the best case scenario (short of getting into S), i will return to the same spot i am in now... and i lose another year..

my spouse has a rather senior research position here (that pays well enough to allow the family to scrape by in the SF bay area), so i don't want to rock the boat there...

[emkay625]

You could always try to transferand if you can't, structure your class schedule so you only have class 2-3 days a week 2L and 3L year. Not perfect, but it would allow you to visit several times throughout the semester for 5 days or so at a time. Take classes with papers instead of final exams so you can basically be home 2-3 weeks early each semester, etc. Not perfect but there are ways to maximize the amount of time you could be in sf with your family, even if you end up stuck in boston.

Edited to add:

1. Have you called to ask about your scholarship negotiation at berkeley?
2. have you applied for any outside scholarships?
3. i never, never, never advocate for people paying sticker. but in your situation i might. spouse with young children on the other side of the country seems unworkable, and unfair to your spouse.

[phasematch]

Why don't you just go to Harvard, try to crush and transfer, and worst case get a SF/SV job for 2L summer and then just hang out with your family until you have to take finals your last two years? I don't think I went to more than 5% of my classes 2L and 3L year.

with a username of "$$$$$$", it is interesting that you suggest I dump $60,000+ in tuition and don't show up for classes!! i appreciate your sharing though. that's the conclusion i have come to, go to H, try my best, and if not, honestly, H is a great place (it was a reach school for me! i am super grateful i got in...). i will be back in SV for 1L summer, and plan to do that for 2L too. i am also considering moving my children to cambridge during 2L.

i guess my question is, is it worth the opportunity cost to study so hard to try to crush the finals (all the stress, lost sleep etc.)? if i am not studying too hard, maybe i can make more friends, join more extracurricular activities, work part time, or skype more with my kids. what % of people get H? my LSAT is way below median.... not sure if that means i will likely not get a H.

[emkay625]

Redirecting my question to the correct location, thanks suralin and lymenheimer!

I am a 0L, about to start at Harvard this fall. I am very interested in transferring to Stanford in my 2L. I understand that Harvard only has Honors (=4.0), Pass (=3.0), Low Pass (=2.0), and Fail (=0) grades. Last year, there were 2 transfers from Harvard to Stanford, but the transfer GPAs at Stanford are insane (75% = 3.97, 50% = 3.78, 25% =3.67). If I can only obtain passes (GPA 3.0) at Harvard, is there no chance of a transfer to Harvard?

And yes, Stanford rejected me. I am not confident that retaking the LSAT would improve my score. I am also a non-traditional student, so I would like to start law school sooner rather than later. I am aware of the third year visiting program, but it involves petitioning the school and a maximum of 5 students are approved for visiting programs every year.

I guess I would like to know if I can somehow improve my chances at transferring to Stanford.

Thanks for any insights you might have!

My guess is this is based on research interests, so I would take 2L classes and write journal notes/comments on some area of interest to a couple of stanford profs.

[dabigchina]

Is it really that hard to transfer from H to S? They only took 2 last year but I can't imagine that many people applied either?

[phasematch]

You could always try to transferand if you can't, structure your class schedule so you only have class 2-3 days a week 2L and 3L year. Not perfect, but it would allow you to visit several times throughout the semester for 5 days or so at a time. Take classes with papers instead of final exams so you can basically be home 2-3 weeks early each semester, etc. Not perfect but there are ways to maximize the amount of time you could be in sf with your family, even if you end up stuck in boston.

Edited to add:

1. Have you called to ask about your scholarship negotiation at berkeley?
2. have you applied for any outside scholarships?
3. i never, never, never advocate for people paying sticker. but in your situation i might. spouse with young children on the other side of the country seems unworkable, and unfair to your spouse.

thanks for your tips about scheduling classes and selecting classes with papers! your questions:
1. i called, left voicemail, sent email to the law financial aid office at berkeley. no response. i put in my scholarship match request a month before the harvard deadline but i did not hear back at all. at the end of it, i was just disappointed at the lack of communication from berkeley. H, on the other hand, was super responsive, and sent so many marketing gimmicks (keychain, signed book, etc...).
2. i am not aware of outside scholarships, is there a forum thread that discusses that?
3. a more complete disclosure: i am paying sticker at H. i know that the stress on the family is tremendous, but with the crazy commute to Boalt, i am not sure if it really helps (people suggested renting a place in berkeley and staying there 4-5 nights a week)... my mom is saving my a$$ here and will be temporarily moving in to help out for half a year (~ 80% of 1L..)

[sayan]

Another point: my girlfriend basically never attended class for her 2L year and stayed with me in NYC during 3L. She got a top big law job because she busted her butt in 1L and spent the rest of her time pursuing other passions aside from learning about random things in lectures (which are of dubious worth to be honest). I probably set a bad example because I rarely attended classes second half of 2L and rarely at all in 3L. We both went to Harvard and while neither of us have latin honors we both have top big law jobs, just like our "more honorable" peers. I also doubt the usefulness of attending classes from a long-term perspective. I scored quite a few DS' in my 1L and 2L (before I started skipping classes) and probably can't recall much of what I learned at this point (and given the nature of law school, none of it is really applicable in my daily life).

It's doable if you prefer spending more time with your family than being in a lecture. Grades generally don't matter in 2L or 3L unless you want a clerkship or plan to lateral jobs early in your associate career. Even then, being around for your kids is far more important, in my opinion.

[phasematch]

Thanks sayan and everyone who weighed in! I really appreciate your tips and advice!

[$$$$$$]

Why don't you just go to Harvard, try to crush and transfer, and worst case get a SF/SV job for 2L summer and then just hang out with your family until you have to take finals your last two years? I don't think I went to more than 5% of my classes 2L and 3L year.

with a username of "$$$$$$", it is interesting that you suggest I dump $60,000+ in tuition and don't show up for classes!! i appreciate your sharing though. that's the conclusion i have come to, go to H, try my best, and if not, honestly, H is a great place (it was a reach school for me! i am super grateful i got in...). i will be back in SV for 1L summer, and plan to do that for 2L too. i am also considering moving my children to cambridge during 2L.

i guess my question is, is it worth the opportunity cost to study so hard to try to crush the finals (all the stress, lost sleep etc.)? if i am not studying too hard, maybe i can make more friends, join more extracurricular activities, work part time, or skype more with my kids. what % of people get H? my LSAT is way below median.... not sure if that means i will likely not get a H.

You aren't paying $60,000 to learn the law, you are paying to get the name on the degree. Law school classes are a joke, you pretty much learn nothing of substance that you can't learn on your own and none of it will pertain to practice (other than maybe Legal Writing - definitely nothing for corporate). I worked most of 2L and 3L year, so I made decent money, interesting connections, pursued interests outside of learning from law books, saw my family and friends, etc. To me, that's far more valuable then going to class to learn stuff ill forget 2 days after my exam.

It's up to you how you want to do it, I just don't know if I would be ok not being around my family for 8 months a year, for three years straight, just to go to HLS. Doesn't seem worth it to me unless you plan on getting big law during OCI and just living in Cali the rest of the time you're in school.

[sayan]

Why don't you just go to Harvard, try to crush and transfer, and worst case get a SF/SV job for 2L summer and then just hang out with your family until you have to take finals your last two years? I don't think I went to more than 5% of my classes 2L and 3L year.

with a username of "$$$$$$", it is interesting that you suggest I dump $60,000+ in tuition and don't show up for classes!! i appreciate your sharing though. that's the conclusion i have come to, go to H, try my best, and if not, honestly, H is a great place (it was a reach school for me! i am super grateful i got in...). i will be back in SV for 1L summer, and plan to do that for 2L too. i am also considering moving my children to cambridge during 2L.

i guess my question is, is it worth the opportunity cost to study so hard to try to crush the finals (all the stress, lost sleep etc.)? if i am not studying too hard, maybe i can make more friends, join more extracurricular activities, work part time, or skype more with my kids. what % of people get H? my LSAT is way below median.... not sure if that means i will likely not get a H.

You aren't paying $60,000 to learn the law, you are paying to get the name on the degree. Law school classes are a joke, you pretty much learn nothing of substance that you can't learn on your own and none of it will pertain to practice (other than maybe Legal Writing - definitely nothing for corporate). I worked most of 2L and 3L year, so I made decent money, interesting connections, pursued interests outside of learning from law books, saw my family and friends, etc. To me, that's far more valuable then going to class to learn stuff ill forget 2 days after my exam.

It's up to you how you want to do it, I just don't know if I would be ok not being around my family for 8 months a year, for three years straight, just to go to HLS. Doesn't seem worth it to me unless you plan on getting big law during OCI and just living in Cali the rest of the time you're in school.

Amen to this.