T! Bottom 50% Forum

[eagle2a]

I'm pretty much not studying for finals. If I end up in the bottom 50% of my lower t1 school how f'd am I. Really just wanting a full time jd required job, don't really care what it is / no debt

[hairbear7]

oh, you should probably start studying

[jrass]

It can't help. People debate how much control you have over grades, but the fact is that you're accepting defeat before a game in which you have at least 50% control over whether you win that will affect you for many years.

[whats an updog]

why would you do this. assuming you're a non-married early 20 something, whatever you are doing is probably less valuable than studying for finals

to answer your question, it is likely that you will not get a jd job without significant hustle. you could maybe become something like a westlaw research attorney.

disclaimer: pulled all this out my ass

[jrass]

You absolutely will care what that job is. You probably just have a difficult time visualizing your life in 2 or 3 years, which is a common sign of immaturity/an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex. That said, odds are you'll mature very quickly once you're in the real world, and your future self will hate your current self for not studying so study.

[kellyfrost]

why would you do this. assuming you're a non-married early 20 something, whatever you are doing is probably less valuable than studying for finals

to answer your question, it is likely that you will not get a jd job without significant hustle. you could maybe become something like a westlaw research attorney.

disclaimer: pulled all this out my ass

Being a west law research attorney would suck. So would bring a west law rep that does trainings and gives out pizza to law students. Somehow I could never picture those guys ever even filing a notice of appearance on a real life case.

[A. Nony Mouse]

why would you do this. assuming you're a non-married early 20 something, whatever you are doing is probably less valuable than studying for finals

to answer your question, it is likely that you will not get a jd job without significant hustle. you could maybe become something like a westlaw research attorney.

disclaimer: pulled all this out my ass

Being a west law research attorney would suck. So would bring a west law rep that does trainings and gives out pizza to law students. Somehow I could never picture those guys ever even filing a notice of appearance on a real life case.

That's because they never will. Although I think it's a pretty cushy gig if figure out you hate practice and like students.

[kellyfrost]

why would you do this. assuming you're a non-married early 20 something, whatever you are doing is probably less valuable than studying for finals

to answer your question, it is likely that you will not get a jd job without significant hustle. you could maybe become something like a westlaw research attorney.

disclaimer: pulled all this out my ass

Being a west law research attorney would suck. So would bring a west law rep that does trainings and gives out pizza to law students. Somehow I could never picture those guys ever even filing a notice of appearance on a real life case.

That's because they never will. Although I think it's a pretty cushy gig if figure out you hate practice and like students.

Are the pay and hours decent? Could you live comfortably and pay off student loans with this gig?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Cushy may have been an exaggeration. I think being one of the research attorneys is decent in terms of money/hours, but not "pay off sticker loans" decent. It's just that no one's going to be making you stay late or emailing you at 11:30 about a Westlaw headnote crisis. (This is just the impression I had based on knowing a few U of MN students - WL is based in MN. I don't know what kind of advancement there is (if any)).

As for the reps, I just always got the impression they were just super happy not to be in practice any more.

[crumb cake]

.

[sublime]

..

[crumb cake]

why would you do this. assuming you're a non-married early 20 something, whatever you are doing is probably less valuable than studying for finals

to answer your question, it is likely that you will not get a jd job without significant hustle. you could maybe become something like a westlaw research attorney.

disclaimer: pulled all this out my ass

Being a west law research attorney would suck. So would bring a west law rep that does trainings and gives out pizza to law students. Somehow I could never picture those guys ever even filing a notice of appearance on a real life case.

That's because they never will. Although I think it's a pretty cushy gig if figure out you hate practice and like students.

Are the pay and hours decent? Could you live comfortably and pay off student loans with this gig?

https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Th ... O16,46.htm
https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Le ... O34,68.htm

That appears to be for student reps, not the people we are talking about.

My bad. Still, if you look around there are T14 and T20 grads working as student reps — so it's not like a bottom 50% T1 grad is going to have a research position handed to them.

[sublime]

..

[emkay625]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

[zot1]

Please study. You're sacrificing a few days of your life for a potential lifetime of benefits (and misery in the legal profession). It really doesn't take much. If you are just down to the last minute, go over your notes and find outlines online. You can do this!

[jrass]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

[GreenEggs]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

[pancakes3]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

I wouldn't imagine that there would be many LTFT Lexis/Westlaw positions. IIRC the DC WL rep told me that she handles 11 schools in the area with a team of 3 and that makes sense. They're only on campus like once a month. You don't need that many boots on the ground. I can see how it might be a cushy gig once you land it, hours-wise. However, I have a hard time imagining the salary being much higher than 50-60k depending on what market you serve and there's probably zero upward mobility. Probably better than doc review though. I think it's just a cushy-ish (relative to unemployment) placeholder where people who graduate T1 with decent stats but struck out in the relevant market land while they network and try to get a LTFT-JD job.

[jrass]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

I wouldn't imagine that there would be many LTFT Lexis/Westlaw positions. IIRC the DC WL rep told me that she handles 11 schools in the area with a team of 3 and that makes sense. They're only on campus like once a month. You don't need that many boots on the ground. I can see how it might be a cushy gig once you land it, hours-wise. However, I have a hard time imagining the salary being much higher than 50-60k depending on what market you serve and there's probably zero upward mobility. Probably better than doc review though. I think it's just a cushy-ish (relative to unemployment) placeholder where people who graduate T1 with decent stats but struck out in the relevant market land while they network and try to get a LTFT-JD job.

I don't see how having a JD adds value. I can see the appeal to some law grads, but don't see how it'd benefit Kaplan or whoever to pay 50k instead of 40 on the basis of a JD.

[barkschool]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

I think as recruiting/ HR, not attorneys

[GreenEggs]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

I think as recruiting/ HR, not attorneys

No as Associates

[barkschool]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

I think as recruiting/ HR, not attorneys

No as Associates

then my guess goes to "shown the door" not "decided they didn't like it"

[Winter is Coming]

Honestly, if you didn't have loans, being a Lexis or WL rep seems pretty awesome. No clue how much they make though.

id bet it's largely commission based, and not very much. the products not very expensive, and the reps don't have a big impact on most people's decision.

Law school rep though no commission.

I'd imagine it's pretty decent, in the same way that being dean of admissions must be pretty cushy. I see these people working in admissions and they were at Skadden, Cravath, Covington, etc. for like three years before moving to admissions. Did they just decide they hated practicing law, or the jobs are just that cushy?

I think as recruiting/ HR, not attorneys

No as Associates

then my guess goes to "shown the door" not "decided they didn't like it"

I'm sure a lot of 3rd year associates would probably kill for some of these admin positions. 40 hour work week. Salaries opaque but wouldn't be surprised if top level admissions people at good schools were making around 175-200,000 (some in low COL college towns).

[pancakes3]

Dean of Admissions, especially for a T14 sounds like a unicorn gig to me.

I mean, as long as you're not heading up a blatant fraud of a school like pond-cummings, what's the down side?

Even OCS sounds like a decent exit option. Maybe not optimal but orders of magnitude better than Lexus rep.

I don't see how having a JD adds value. I can see the appeal to some law grads, but don't see how it'd benefit Kaplan or whoever to pay 50k instead of 40 on the basis of a JD.

You're probably on to something here - especially with respect to the bar prep reps. Tougher sell if you're the Lexis/Westlaw rep though because you do have to put on workshops and field questions from 1Ls and it might be a bad look if it got out that the rep isn't a JD. But then again, what's the school going to do? Not buy Lexis services? I'm pretty sure the reps are all JDs though, unless they're just flat out lying when they say "I remember when I was in LRW..." as they're handing out water bottles.

It all should probably go the route of pharma reps and be shameless in their pandering.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The people who teach WL/Lexis workshops at schools (and probably firms and other employers) are definitely JDs, and I'm not sure what they're selling that would be commission based - they're not prep courses, law schools are going to subscribe to both. (Though I suppose they might try to sell various features/extended plans/whatever.) Also the people who work the phones answering research questions are JDs. Other people do things identifying headnotes and entering them into the databases, though IIRC there are a lot of U of MN law students who do this during school. If you don't like practice and can get into these kinds of gigs, I think you could potentially move into a number of positions in education/databasing/information management kinds of stuff - not necessarily law-related, the JD would be less and less relevant as you went along.

Admissions and other admin gigs like CSO are definitely sought-after by people who hate practice, whether that means they were pushed out or not. Big difference between THE dean of admissions/head CSO person and grunt in the office, though (our head CSO was a former local biglaw partner - you want those connections), in terms of pay. You can always just google state salaries for a public university to get a range of the salaries out there.