Is it really THAT bad? (Don't be offended!) Forum

[MyNameIsntJames]

So by now just about any and everyone whose done a modicum of research into the law profession has heard of the ominous boogeyman that is 'big law' and how it drains every ounce of happiness from your soul and creates so much misery that even $100-200k isn't enough to continue working there. But I want to honestly probe that suggestion and the reasons behind it and I think the expertise on this forum makes this the perfect place to do it.


I want some comments on this theory I'm going to put forth. As a disclaimer, you might be offended by what I'm about to suggest. Don't be. I consider you all to be intelligent, resilient and hard working individuals. Nonetheless, I'm sure I'll probably piss off and offend a lot of people with this post so...here goes!


Theory:

Perhaps the people in big law just simply aren't used to working in a grueling environment. Follow me for a second here. From my understanding, competitive firms hire students from pretty good law schools right? And generally students at good law schools are those with a good level of intelligence and educational background. And its no secret that people who fit in that category generally tend to be those that had a decently good upbringing. I'm not saying everyone in big law was born with a silver spoon in their mouth with a Kardashian-esque wealth attached to their name. But you more than likely weren't dodging bullets on your way to your inner city school, studying late at night with a flash light because the electricity went off again after a long evening of caring for your 5 brothers and sisters because your mom works 16 hours a day to afford the Salvation Army clothes and payless shoes on your feet. Dig me? So is it possible that a lot of people in big law just simply aren't used to getting their asses worked? I was blessed enough to grow up in a home with two parents, a roof over my head and food over my plate. However, I've experienced what its like to work 12 hours/day in the summer doing monotonous yard work and other tasks while we were slave drove (I'm black so that's PC) by some a-hole who talked to us like dogs. Probably was even harsher because most of my coworkers were Mexicans and I think he assumed we all didn't speak English. My TWO week paycheck was $525 after taxes and I felt like I was loaded when I got that paycheck. I find it hard to believe that I'm going to sit in a cozy office somewhere making exponentially more than that and think to myself, "Wow this is miserable." And that's where my theory stems from. I can't wrap my head around making $100k+/year or even $80k/year and thinking "Wow this job bleeping sucks. I'm so miserable here."

Am I saying I'd love it? No. I can't answer that. Am I saying there isn't an intense amount of pressure and stress in big law that's entirely unique to that of a field laborer? Absolutely not. But I am saying that if the 'misery' of this profession comes from the hours worked? Then I think I'll be A-Ok. My philosophy is if I can bust ass working 12hrs/day under the hot sun doing physical labor for pennies on the dollar and not be 'miserable', then I fail to see how working 12 hours a day in a cozy office setting making assassination money is gonna be the straw that breaks the camel's back.


Perhaps I'm entirely misguided and the misery of the law profession comes from something else. If so, PLEASE enlighten me. I am not here to tell you you're wrong, combat you or belittle your experience and make you feel like less than. I don't think I'm better than anyone or that those that have said the law profession is grueling are 'weak' or anything like that.

[Danny Mothers]

This same argument gets made all the time. Nobody is saying that worse jobs don't exist. Just because my situation could be worse doesn't mean it isn't already bad.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a tax associate in V50 biglaw and really like it. But I've only been here 8 months so take it with a grain of salt.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Oh my god how many times do 0Ls feel compelled to make this argument?! And each time it's as if they've never read anything else anyone has posted on the subject, especially a thread like this one: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=261392. I think I need to come up with a list of all the previous threads on this topic to post every time someone starts it anew.

Also 0Ls aren't allowed to post in legal employment, so I'm moving this.

Edit: OP, this is not to say that you won't enjoy biglaw, or at least find the money is worth it. But you can't know that until you do the job and to suggest that people who do post here and hate it that it's just because they're not used to hard work is kind of insulting.

[MyNameIsntJames]

This same argument gets made all the time. Nobody is saying that worse jobs don't exist. Just because my situation could be worse doesn't mean it isn't already bad.

Right. But when you've been in a comparatively worse situation already, doesn't it take the sting out of however bad you anticipate this future thing will be?

In other words, I'm sure if Warren Buffet lost all his money and had to live on a $60k/year salary it would probably seem like hell on earth to him and if anyone asked him he'd tell them 'this is terrible!'. But to take that situation and then say '60k/year is a miserable amount of money to live on!' would be absurd.

[MyNameIsntJames]

Oh my god how many times do 0Ls feel compelled to make this argument?! And each time it's as if they've never read anything else anyone has posted on the subject, especially a thread like this one: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=261392. I think I need to come up with a list of all the previous threads on this topic to post every time someone starts it anew.

Also 0Ls aren't allowed to post in this forum, so I'm moving this.

Edit: OP, this is not to say that you won't enjoy biglaw, or at least find the money is worth it. But you can't know that until you do the job and to suggest that people who do post here and hate it that it's just because they're not used to hard work is kind of insulting.

My bad. I figured I wasn't the first guy to come up with this theory lol. I'm not saying that people who hate it aren't used to hard work! I'm saying they may not have been employed in a position previously that conditioned them to this. Take Lebron James, for instance. I'm sure his workout and training regimens are insanely rigorous and more difficult than anyone here could ever handle. He's clearly a hard worker as a professional athlete at the top of his profession. However, if you put Lebron James in a 40 hour/week job he would probably suffer there too because he's not used to THAT kind of work.

I could never say anyone in Big Law isn't used to hard work unless we're agreeing that everyone in the profession is a genius that's never had to crack open a book in his/her life. Its hard work getting through undergrad with a great GPA and earning a good LSAT score. Law school, in itself, is hard work too. However, that hard work might not condition them for what's actually going to happen in the job field. That's all I'm saying.

[MyNameIsntJames]

Oh my god how many times do 0Ls feel compelled to make this argument?! And each time it's as if they've never read anything else anyone has posted on the subject, especially a thread like this one: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=261392. I think I need to come up with a list of all the previous threads on this topic to post every time someone starts it anew.

Also 0Ls aren't allowed to post in legal employment, so I'm moving this.

Edit: OP, this is not to say that you won't enjoy biglaw, or at least find the money is worth it. But you can't know that until you do the job and to suggest that people who do post here and hate it that it's just because they're not used to hard work is kind of insulting.

The thread answered my question poignantly. Thank you very very much. I severely underestimated.

[seagan823]

Can't wait to see how this thread develops.

I'm a 0L, but from everything I have read, no one is writing, "Man, I hate big law, I wish that I were a poorly treated migrant laborer." And a lot of the posts I have read about big law don't even suggest it is just the super long hours that get to them. Lots of jobs have super long hours. It is the stress of missing weddings in which they are the maid of honor, or missing a long planned 30th birthday party for their wife, while being dragged into the office to do monotonous work they hate with little margin for error, given to them by partners they won't become, written for clients that don't necessarily respect them. It is the constant drain of unpredictable hours, checking emails all the time, and generally not feeling like your time is your own. Coupled with six figure debt, people feel like they have no escape but also no future.

I recognize that some of these biglaw caution posts represent the worst of the worst at firms, but I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to write them. I don't believe that a world full of top law school grads is dominated by those who "can't hack it." I believe it is full of people who didn't fully realize what they were getting into, and are warning people to either a. seek a different career or b. get scholarship money to ensure they can exit big law in a timely fashion if they decide they hate it.

[zot1]

Oh my god how many times do 0Ls feel compelled to make this argument?! And each time it's as if they've never read anything else anyone has posted on the subject, especially a thread like this one: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=261392. I think I need to come up with a list of all the previous threads on this topic to post every time someone starts it anew.

Also 0Ls aren't allowed to post in this forum, so I'm moving this.

Edit: OP, this is not to say that you won't enjoy biglaw, or at least find the money is worth it. But you can't know that until you do the job and to suggest that people who do post here and hate it that it's just because they're not used to hard work is kind of insulting.

My bad. I figured I wasn't the first guy to come up with this theory lol. I'm not saying that people who hate it aren't used to hard work! I'm saying they may not have been employed in a position previously that conditioned them to this. Take Lebron James, for instance. I'm sure his workout and training regimens are insanely rigorous and more difficult than anyone here could ever handle. He's clearly a hard worker as a professional athlete at the top of his profession. However, if you put Lebron James in a 40 hour/week job he would probably suffer there too because he's not used to THAT kind of work.

I could never say anyone in Big Law isn't used to hard work unless we're agreeing that everyone in the profession is a genius that's never had to crack open a book in his/her life. Its hard work getting through undergrad with a great GPA and earning a good LSAT score. Law school, in itself, is hard work too. However, that hard work might not condition them for what's actually going to happen in the job field. That's all I'm saying.

Same way you won't know what biglaw will feel like for you until you do it.

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

Oh my god how many times do 0Ls feel compelled to make this argument?! And each time it's as if they've never read anything else anyone has posted on the subject, especially a thread like this one: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=261392. I think I need to come up with a list of all the previous threads on this topic to post every time someone starts it anew.

Also 0Ls aren't allowed to post in legal employment, so I'm moving this.

Edit: OP, this is not to say that you won't enjoy biglaw, or at least find the money is worth it. But you can't know that until you do the job and to suggest that people who do post here and hate it that it's just because they're not used to hard work is kind of insulting.

The thread answered my question poignantly. Thank you very very much. I severely underestimated.

Haha, this is sad--but this post and reply should be required reading for all prospective law students. I wish I read it oh so many years ago.

[Desert Fox]

1. It's almost definitely flame that you worked 12 hour days. I'm guessing you include lunch, breaks, shooting the shit, and commutes to get that time. People always exaggerate their hours.

Most poor folks don't even work 40 hours a week.

2. You are underestimating how bad the stress makes stuff.

3. Working on mental work for 12 hours is mentally draining and depressing. Biglaw is not a regular office job where you can do nothing for 6 out of your 8 hour shift.

4. Some ahole drill sarging you a bit sucks, but biglawyers will demand perfection then shun you from minor mistakes (or not even mistakes, just not reading their mind)

5. The biggest thing is when you put the rake down, your job is done. Your biglaw gig is supposed to be on your mind all the time. You are never off the clock. Never. Maybe your wedding day, maybe.

There's a reason I'm working biglaw and not bigYARD raking but if the pay was the same I'd rather rake leaves than do biglaw.

This a job were people make like 200k and FIGHT to take government jobs for 85k.

[MyNameIsntJames]

Can't wait to see how this thread develops.

I'm a 0L, but from everything I have read, no one is writing, "Man, I hate big law, I wish that I were a poorly treated migrant laborer." And a lot of the posts I have read about big law don't even suggest it is just the super long hours that get to them. Lots of jobs have super long hours. It is the stress of missing weddings in which they are the maid of honor, or missing a long planned 30th birthday party for their wife, while being dragged into the office to do monotonous work they hate with little margin for error, given to them by partners they won't become, written for clients that don't necessarily respect them. It is the constant drain of unpredictable hours, checking emails all the time, and generally not feeling like your time is your own. Coupled with six figure debt, people feel like they have no escape but also no future.

I recognize that some of these biglaw caution posts represent the worst of the worst at firms, but I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to write them. I don't believe that a world full of top law school grads is dominated by those who "can't hack it." I believe it is full of people who didn't fully realize what they were getting into, and are warning people to either a. seek a different career or b. get scholarship money to ensure they can exit big law in a timely fashion if they decide they hate it.

I completely agree with you, especially after reading the thread a. nony mouse dropped, and you summed everything up excellently. I guess my first big goal is to make sure that I don't graduate with much debt. If I'm blessed enough to receive a full scholly anywhere, I'm in there.

What makes me curious though is for the folks who don't have massive debt, you would think a $120k+ salary would give you a substantial chunk of change to sit on after 3-5 years if you wanted to just up and quit and find other opportunities.

I also am confused about why being in corporate law just locks you in there and how your opportunities actually decrease verses increasing. That's just backward in my world. Perhaps you become considered overqualified for positions you otherwise would have been groomed for?

[zot1]

Can't wait to see how this thread develops.

I'm a 0L, but from everything I have read, no one is writing, "Man, I hate big law, I wish that I were a poorly treated migrant laborer." And a lot of the posts I have read about big law don't even suggest it is just the super long hours that get to them. Lots of jobs have super long hours. It is the stress of missing weddings in which they are the maid of honor, or missing a long planned 30th birthday party for their wife, while being dragged into the office to do monotonous work they hate with little margin for error, given to them by partners they won't become, written for clients that don't necessarily respect them. It is the constant drain of unpredictable hours, checking emails all the time, and generally not feeling like your time is your own. Coupled with six figure debt, people feel like they have no escape but also no future.

I recognize that some of these biglaw caution posts represent the worst of the worst at firms, but I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to write them. I don't believe that a world full of top law school grads is dominated by those who "can't hack it." I believe it is full of people who didn't fully realize what they were getting into, and are warning people to either a. seek a different career or b. get scholarship money to ensure they can exit big law in a timely fashion if they decide they hate it.

I completely agree with you, especially after reading the thread a. nony mouse dropped, and you summed everything up excellently. I guess my first big goal is to make sure that I don't graduate with much debt. If I'm blessed enough to receive a full scholly anywhere, I'm in there.

What makes me curious though is for the folks who don't have massive debt, you would think a $120k+ salary would give you a substantial chunk of change to sit on after 3-5 years if you wanted to just up and quit and find other opportunities.

I also am confused about why being in corporate law just locks you in there and how your opportunities actually decrease verses increasing. That's just backward in my world. Perhaps you become considered overqualified for positions you otherwise would have been groomed for?

I'm sorry but you two are missing the point. The point is that there are other white collar jobs that have a decent pay without the long hours and stress of biglaw. There's a reason why a lot of biglaw partners are divorced and whatnot.

But further, all these threads are here to tell people that those 160k that you may or may not be getting into debt for won't be earned easily. In fact, most people think that the 160k just isn't worth it for the amount of stress and damage to your mental health.

Yes, biglaw is better than working as a prostitute or any other awful thing you can come up with.

[MyNameIsntJames]

1. It's almost definitely flame that you worked 12 hour days. I'm guessing you include lunch, breaks, shooting the shit, and commutes to get that time. People always exaggerate their hours.

Most poor folks don't even work 40 hours a week.

2. You are underestimating how bad the stress makes stuff.

3. Working on mental work for 12 hours is mentally draining and depressing. Biglaw is not a regular office job where you can do nothing for 6 out of your 8 hour shift.

4. Some ahole drill sarging you a bit sucks, but biglawyers will demand perfection then shun you from minor mistakes (or not even mistakes, just not reading their mind)

5. The biggest thing is when you put the rake down, your job is done. Your biglaw gig is supposed to be on your mind all the time. You are never off the clock. Never. Maybe your wedding day, maybe.

There's a reason I'm working biglaw and not bigYARD raking but if the pay was the same I'd rather rake leaves than do biglaw.

This a job were people make like 200k and FIGHT to take government jobs for 85k.

Not flame working 12 hours a day. It was a get to work by 6 am, leave by 7 pm with a 30 minute lunch break situation. I was a younger black guy working with a bunch of immigrant Mexicans who didn't speak a lick of English, not like we're having riveting conversations all day. And who doesn't shoot the sh*t at work? lol. Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

With that being said, I see exactly where you're coming from with everything else. It makes the situation seem hopeless as hell though. If anything, its the 'You must be on call and ready to handle this situation no matter what is happening in your life' that gets to me the most. I could deal with that as a doctor, because at least I'm saving lives (or at least in a position that is the crux of a functioning, developed society), but if I'm being a slave to some client who just wants to have his ego stroked or some contract reanalyzed? That would suck huge -----. And I'll admit that hands down. That is uniquely different from the job I worked. Is this 0L grind all just one big facade (sp?)? Someone give me some hope!

[MyNameIsntJames]

Can't wait to see how this thread develops.

I'm a 0L, but from everything I have read, no one is writing, "Man, I hate big law, I wish that I were a poorly treated migrant laborer." And a lot of the posts I have read about big law don't even suggest it is just the super long hours that get to them. Lots of jobs have super long hours. It is the stress of missing weddings in which they are the maid of honor, or missing a long planned 30th birthday party for their wife, while being dragged into the office to do monotonous work they hate with little margin for error, given to them by partners they won't become, written for clients that don't necessarily respect them. It is the constant drain of unpredictable hours, checking emails all the time, and generally not feeling like your time is your own. Coupled with six figure debt, people feel like they have no escape but also no future.

I recognize that some of these biglaw caution posts represent the worst of the worst at firms, but I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to write them. I don't believe that a world full of top law school grads is dominated by those who "can't hack it." I believe it is full of people who didn't fully realize what they were getting into, and are warning people to either a. seek a different career or b. get scholarship money to ensure they can exit big law in a timely fashion if they decide they hate it.

I completely agree with you, especially after reading the thread a. nony mouse dropped, and you summed everything up excellently. I guess my first big goal is to make sure that I don't graduate with much debt. If I'm blessed enough to receive a full scholly anywhere, I'm in there.

What makes me curious though is for the folks who don't have massive debt, you would think a $120k+ salary would give you a substantial chunk of change to sit on after 3-5 years if you wanted to just up and quit and find other opportunities.

I also am confused about why being in corporate law just locks you in there and how your opportunities actually decrease verses increasing. That's just backward in my world. Perhaps you become considered overqualified for positions you otherwise would have been groomed for?

I'm sorry but you two are missing the point. The point is that there are other white collar jobs that have a decent pay without the long hours and stress of biglaw. There's a reason why a lot of biglaw partners are divorced and whatnot.

But further, all these threads are here to tell people that those 160k that you may or may not be getting into debt for won't be earned easily. In fact, most people think that the 160k just isn't worth it for the amount of stress and damage to your mental health.

Yes, biglaw is better than working as a prostitute or any other awful thing you can come up with.

Don't get me wrong, I had absolutely 0 intention of working Big Law long term lol. I guess my idea was I'd land a solid Big Law job and play the game for 3-5 years then escape and do what I really want to do in life. But from what I'm reading in the other thread and other users up here, that appears to be a fantasy that many many people had and lost. Is there really no way for me to set myself up to escape Big Law and find another career? Will I really graduate from T-14, Lord willing, be blessed with a Big Law job and once I'm out its back to the skids? If so, then why don't we all skip this whole LSAT/GPA hustle and just apply to some cheap but decent T-50 schools and just enjoy a solid $75k salary? Or is it that so many people have blindly pursued big law with the same mentality as I, believing that they will either handle Big Law with no issues or that the money is entirely worth it?

[zot1]

Don't get me wrong, I had absolutely 0 intention of working Big Law long term lol. I guess my idea was I'd land a solid Big Law job and play the game for 3-5 years then escape and do what I really want to do in life. But from what I'm reading in the other thread and other users up here, that appears to be a fantasy that many many people had and lost. Is there really no way for me to set myself up to escape Big Law and find another career? Will I really graduate from T-14, Lord willing, be blessed with a Big Law job and once I'm out its back to the skids? If so, then why don't we all skip this whole LSAT/GPA hustle and just apply to some cheap but decent T-50 schools and just enjoy a solid $75k salary? Or is it that so many people have blindly pursued big law with the same mentality as I, believing that they will either handle Big Law with no issues or that the money is entirely worth it?

Ah yes. How many people go to law school, graduate without a job and with debt, and then wonder why did I do this? The answer is many.

Also, if I had a penny for every 0L who tries to rationalize that biglaw isn't that bad, I would not have to work ever again. You're doing this. What makes you think others like you won't it? Or maybe you're the only special person who thought of it? If you keep reading threads here, you will quickly realize that's not the case.

Alcoholism and suicide in the legal profession are not pervasive just cause. But people still think that won't happen to me.

How many people go to TTT because they are so damn special they will get a job?

Rationalize it however you want, the answer is still the same.

[A. Nony Mouse]

1) a lot of people want to work in-house, which is hard to without getting biglaw experience first

2) a lot of other people want to work with the Feds, who don't do a lot of entry-level hiring but do hire out of biglaw

3) a lot of people went into debt to go to law school and need to pay it off

4) a lot of people think a high salary trumps everything else

5) a lot of people are obsessed with collecting brass rings, and biglaw is PRESTIGIOUS

6) a lot of people don't really know what they want out of law, and at top schools biglaw is the path of least resistance

7) statistically it often looks safer to go to a top school and do biglaw than go to the regional school for the $75k midlaw job. There aren't actually a ton of those jobs, they're harder to find/get because they're less likely to be all about grades, and they may not be any better, just pay less.

some people are really genuinely interested in the kind of sophisticated corporate work that biglaw has a lock on

[Desert Fox]

1. It's almost definitely flame that you worked 12 hour days. I'm guessing you include lunch, breaks, shooting the shit, and commutes to get that time. People always exaggerate their hours.

Most poor folks don't even work 40 hours a week.

2. You are underestimating how bad the stress makes stuff.

3. Working on mental work for 12 hours is mentally draining and depressing. Biglaw is not a regular office job where you can do nothing for 6 out of your 8 hour shift.

4. Some ahole drill sarging you a bit sucks, but biglawyers will demand perfection then shun you from minor mistakes (or not even mistakes, just not reading their mind)

5. The biggest thing is when you put the rake down, your job is done. Your biglaw gig is supposed to be on your mind all the time. You are never off the clock. Never. Maybe your wedding day, maybe.

There's a reason I'm working biglaw and not bigYARD raking but if the pay was the same I'd rather rake leaves than do biglaw.

This a job were people make like 200k and FIGHT to take government jobs for 85k.

Not flame working 12 hours a day. It was a get to work by 6 am, leave by 7 pm with a 30 minute lunch break situation. I was a younger black guy working with a bunch of immigrant Mexicans who didn't speak a lick of English, not like we're having riveting conversations all day. And who doesn't shoot the sh*t at work? lol. Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

With that being said, I see exactly where you're coming from with everything else. It makes the situation seem hopeless as hell though. If anything, its the 'You must be on call and ready to handle this situation no matter what is happening in your life' that gets to me the most. I could deal with that as a doctor, because at least I'm saving lives (or at least in a position that is the crux of a functioning, developed society), but if I'm being a slave to some client who just wants to have his ego stroked or some contract reanalyzed? That would suck huge -----. And I'll admit that hands down. That is uniquely different from the job I worked. Is this 0L grind all just one big facade (sp?)? Someone give me some hope!

You hit on a great point, the false urgency of it all is just demoralizing. The ONLY reason biglaw isn't a 9-5 gig is because that would make profits per partner 2.0 million instead of 2.5 million.

[Desert Fox]

I used to work 50 hours a week in an office job. I thought, hey I can triple my pay by going to law school. Who cares if I have to work 60 or even 70 hours.

Now that the plan worked out exactly as I planned it. It's terrible and I wish I never did it.

[stego]

1. It's almost definitely flame that you worked 12 hour days. I'm guessing you include lunch, breaks, shooting the shit, and commutes to get that time. People always exaggerate their hours.

Most poor folks don't even work 40 hours a week.

2. You are underestimating how bad the stress makes stuff.

3. Working on mental work for 12 hours is mentally draining and depressing. Biglaw is not a regular office job where you can do nothing for 6 out of your 8 hour shift.

4. Some ahole drill sarging you a bit sucks, but biglawyers will demand perfection then shun you from minor mistakes (or not even mistakes, just not reading their mind)

5. The biggest thing is when you put the rake down, your job is done. Your biglaw gig is supposed to be on your mind all the time. You are never off the clock. Never. Maybe your wedding day, maybe.

There's a reason I'm working biglaw and not bigYARD raking but if the pay was the same I'd rather rake leaves than do biglaw.

This a job were people make like 200k and FIGHT to take government jobs for 85k.

Not flame working 12 hours a day. It was a get to work by 6 am, leave by 7 pm with a 30 minute lunch break situation. I was a younger black guy working with a bunch of immigrant Mexicans who didn't speak a lick of English, not like we're having riveting conversations all day. And who doesn't shoot the sh*t at work? lol. Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

With that being said, I see exactly where you're coming from with everything else. It makes the situation seem hopeless as hell though. If anything, its the 'You must be on call and ready to handle this situation no matter what is happening in your life' that gets to me the most. I could deal with that as a doctor, because at least I'm saving lives (or at least in a position that is the crux of a functioning, developed society), but if I'm being a slave to some client who just wants to have his ego stroked or some contract reanalyzed? That would suck huge -----. And I'll admit that hands down. That is uniquely different from the job I worked. Is this 0L grind all just one big facade (sp?)? Someone give me some hope!

The problem with shooting the shit at work is that you can't bill for those hours. Firms have billable hours requirements that you have to rack up over the course of the year. And the other thing about the long hours is that you might be in the office for most of the day without much to do, so you only bill a few hours during that time, and then at the end of the day, your boss gives you a time-sensitive project.

[Aeon]

Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

The overwhelming proportion of BigLaw work, especially as a junior associate, is exactly sitting hunched over your desk, alone, for countless hours a day.

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

The overwhelming proportion of BigLaw work, especially as a junior associate, is exactly sitting hunched over your desk, alone, for countless hours a day.

hey some of us also stand up hunched over our standing desks, alone, for very, very well-tracked and recorded amounts of 6 minute increments a day.

[Aeon]

Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

The overwhelming proportion of BigLaw work, especially as a junior associate, is exactly sitting hunched over your desk, alone, for countless hours a day.

hey some of us also stand up hunched over our standing desks, alone, for very, very well-tracked and recorded amounts of 6 minute increments a day.

Touché.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

Unless we're talking sweat shops in China somewhere, I doubt ANYone in any profession is hunched over a desk, mute for 12 hours straight.

The overwhelming proportion of BigLaw work, especially as a junior associate, is exactly sitting hunched over your desk, alone, for countless hours a day.

Are you evaluated based on your own merit? Do you have to constantly talk to other people and beg other people for information on how to do your job? To be more specific how are you to learn your job typically in Biglaw? Is it using information that you covered in law school or do they hand you SOPS?

[reasonable_man]

Oh my god how many times do 0Ls feel compelled to make this argument?! And each time it's as if they've never read anything else anyone has posted on the subject, especially a thread like this one: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=261392. I think I need to come up with a list of all the previous threads on this topic to post every time someone starts it anew.

Also 0Ls aren't allowed to post in legal employment, so I'm moving this.

Edit: OP, this is not to say that you won't enjoy biglaw, or at least find the money is worth it. But you can't know that until you do the job and to suggest that people who do post here and hate it that it's just because they're not used to hard work is kind of insulting.

You're starting to sound as old and tired as me... Time for a vacation!