Lets talk patent eligibility Forum

[Patenthopeful2019]

Hey guys, 0L at a T10 here (Not K-JD). I was one of those "1st semester pre-med, 2nd semester communications" people in undergrad. I took a lot of math classes, but unfortunately not too many sciences before I decided to wanted to switch to the social sciences. I probably could have graduated with a minor in something science related, but ultimately chose not to pursue it.

Now that I'm entering law school, I find myself interested in taking the patent bar and perhaps working in the tech field. While my resume may not show it, I have an interest in the tech industry and have always held hobbies in computer science.

Given that my work experience in tech is limited, and that I do not have a degree in the sciences, my best option to become eligible seems to be option 2 under the USPTO guidelines, which is as follows:

ii. Option 2: 32 semester hours in a combination consisting of the following:

8 semester hours of chemistry or 8 semester hours of physics, and 24 semester hours in biology, botany, microbiology, or molecular biology.

The 8 semester hours in chemistry or 8 semester hours of physics must be obtained in two sequential courses, each course including a lab. Only courses for science or engineering majors will be accepted.

I have 8 credits in biology already, and 4 in chemistry (both in courses for science majors). I can easily take the one chemistry course I need this summer at community college. For the 16 bio credits, though, I have plenty of options. Ideally, I would not want to take my credits with a lab, as this will be time consuming. Online courses would be best, and probably the cheapest. Does anyone know what can count as a course "for science or engineering majors"? And does the USPTO care what college you go to for these classes? Can I just take online bio and botany courses from a place like the University of Phoenix? Or would I have to find classes at a local community college while in school? (Just a note: I'm not worried about the difficulty of these courses- you only need a C- according to USPTO, and I did very well in all of my science classes before I switched majors. But the time commitment I would need for a lab class is no joke).

Also, how long do I have to finish these credits? Should I try to be done by OCI? I would rather not try to take 16 bio credits during 1L year, even if they are relatively easy online courses in botany or genetics.

Thanks for the help guys!

[h2go]

I wouldn't bother. Patent bar passage without an actual science degree doesn't add much to your resume. Unless you really want to do patent prosecution (which for bio/chem is hard to break into without a M.S. or PhD), you can still get jobs in the tech field. You don't need the patent bar for patent litigation, tech transactions, and general corporate practices representing tech companies. Spend your time during 1L getting good grades.

[Patenthopeful2019]

I wouldn't bother. Patent bar passage without an actual science degree doesn't add much to your resume. Unless you really want to do patent prosecution (which for bio/chem is hard to break into without a M.S. or PhD), you can still get jobs in the tech field. You don't need the patent bar for patent litigation, tech transactions, and general corporate practices representing tech companies. Spend your time during 1L getting good grades.

Thanks for the response!

I didn't know that the patent bar was not that big of a deal for non science majors. Much of my family works/has worked for a very prominent tech company, so the whole idea of taking the patent bar has been in my head for a while. I do have an interest in patent prosecution, though it's not a make or break thing for me if I don't get it.

If I could finish the credits this summer and next and not take any during 1L year, would that change your (or anyone's) opinion?

[h2go]

It really depends on what kind of area you want to practice in (which is understandably hard to pick right now). If you are primarily interested in things like tech-focused M&A/financings/IPO, tech transactions, licensing, trademarks, copyrights, or data privacy/security, don't bother with the patent bar. If you want to do patent litigation, you'll be fine with top grades. The patent bar might be moderately useful on your resume (but not necessary).

Honestly, it'll be really hard to get into patent prosecution without a technical degree. I haven't seen anyone who's done so, but it probably isn't impossible. You might want to talk to some people about what that entails to get an idea about whether its something you want to do. If you end up liking it, you might need to go back and spend a year to get a master's in a technical field.

[skri65]

If you are dead set on prosecution, you'll need to get a masters or some kind of degree. I was in your exact situation and opted to get a degree in the sciences. I've never seen anyone prosecute patents at a law firm without a science degree of some sort. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that it's appears to be extremely out of the ordinary.

[skri65]

Think of it this way: it's not about whether or not you can pass the patent bar, it's about whether a partner could see you to clients (or if you could sell yourself to clients). No one with a lot of money on the line would want to trust someone without a science degree to prosecute their patent.

[Patenthopeful2019]

It really depends on what kind of area you want to practice in (which is understandably hard to pick right now). If you are primarily interested in things like tech-focused M&A/financings/IPO, tech transactions, licensing, trademarks, copyrights, or data privacy/security, don't bother with the patent bar. If you want to do patent litigation, you'll be fine with top grades. The patent bar might be moderately useful on your resume (but not necessary).

Honestly, it'll be really hard to get into patent prosecution without a technical degree. I haven't seen anyone who's done so, but it probably isn't impossible. You might want to talk to some people about what that entails to get an idea about whether its something you want to do. If you end up liking it, you might need to go back and spend a year to get a master's in a technical field.

Thanks for the detailed response. My interests in the tech industry extend beyond patent litigation and prosecution. I'd be open to the other jobs you mentioned, but it is hard to narrow down exactly what I want to do.

If you are dead set on prosecution, you'll need to get a masters or some kind of degree. I was in your exact situation and opted to get a degree in the sciences. I've never seen anyone prosecute patents at a law firm without a science degree of some sort. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that it's appears to be extremely out of the ordinary.

That makes a lot of sense.

I suppose my reasons for wanting to become patent eligible break down to the following:

1. I don't want to limit my opportunities down the line. As I stated, my family is in the tech industry, so it's been hammered home to me that in order to find an in-house job at these companies, I'd need the patent bar. I guess I have some FOMO here in that I'll probably never really have the time or desire to go and take a bunch of science classes at a community college for cheap in the future. Though as you both mentioned before, a science degree may be the more decisive factor here.

2. I don't want to miss out on opportunities at OCI that I might not have without the patent bar. For example, I don't want to miss out on getting into a firm with a great patent litigation program, or even one that does a lot of corporate work with the tech industry, because I don't get top grades (though I'm sure going to try) and I don't have any outstanding tech credentials on my resume.

I might as well reveal that I will be at Penn, and they offer two joint degree programs that would probably make me patent eligible by graduation and provide me with the science background I need for prosecution.

https://www.law.upenn.edu/crossdiscipli ... gineering/

The first is a JD/Masters in Engineering, and the second is a Masters in Computing and IT that's aimed at students without a traditional science background. I'd rather not do a four-year program (and for that price, I could be getting a JD/MBA in three), but if they'd be worth it for my goals i'd consider them.

[h2go]

it's been hammered home to me that in order to find an in-house job at these companies, I'd need the patent bar.

Fortunately, this is not true. Plenty of corporate associates are able to in house jobs at tech companies.

I don't want to miss out on opportunities at OCI that I might not have without the patent bar. For example, I don't want to miss out on getting into a firm with a great patent litigation program, or even one that does a lot of corporate work with the tech industry

Just getting patent bar qualified probably won't get you more interviews at OCI. Sadly, the technical degree is what matters.

If you can, you should try reaching out to anyone you know who does patent prosecution/litigation and get some more information about what its like. If it seems like something you are genuinely interested in, I would consider doing one of the joint degrees. That would actually help you get a job in the long run. Taking some classes to get patent bar eligible isn't going to help too much.

[Patenthopeful2019]

it's been hammered home to me that in order to find an in-house job at these companies, I'd need the patent bar.

Fortunately, this is not true. Plenty of corporate associates are able to in house jobs at tech companies.

I don't want to miss out on opportunities at OCI that I might not have without the patent bar. For example, I don't want to miss out on getting into a firm with a great patent litigation program, or even one that does a lot of corporate work with the tech industry

Just getting patent bar qualified probably won't get you more interviews at OCI. Sadly, the technical degree is what matters.

If you can, you should try reaching out to anyone you know who does patent prosecution/litigation and get some more information about what its like. If it seems like something you are genuinely interested in, I would consider doing one of the joint degrees. That would actually help you get a job in the long run. Taking some classes to get patent bar eligible isn't going to help too much.

Thanks for the help. There's a lot of great advice here on this forum, but topics regarding patent law seem harder to find. I will certainly look into doing one of the joint degrees (It appears I'd need to pass the FE exam first to become eligible, but that seems trivial compared to taking on a MSE courseload during school).

I'm actually relieved to hear that finishing up my science credits just to take the patent bar won't make that big of a difference. I wasn't looking forward to taking a bunch of seemingly remedial courses at a community college.