question about part time law Forum

[Troianii]

I was going to go in depth but just to cut to the chase - how feasible is part time legal work? I expect there would be significantly less compensation (both in total and on an hourly comparison) and less career growth, but is it something that is feasible for someone coming out of law school?

[BigZuck]

My gut says the answer is simply "No" but give us a little context here. What do you mean? What kind of part time legal work are you thinking about?

[Troianii]

My gut says the answer is simply "No" but give us a little context here. What do you mean? What kind of part time legal work are you thinking about?

Honestly I don't have anything in particular in mind, just wondering if it is a possibility. Assuming money isn't a major issue. I mean, I'm not asking if there is part-time volunteer work out there, I'm sure there is. So I guess what I'm looking for is real legal work that's part time and will pay at least something.

[TLSModBot]

I'm thinking the closest you'll get is contract attorney stuff but that's a terrible way to go.

[BaiAilian2013]

One way is to start full time, put in a couple years, have a kid, grandkid, or parent you need to care for, and negotiate a part time arrangement (e.g., meet 60% of the billable target for 60% pay).

[Troianii]

I'm thinking the closest you'll get is contract attorney stuff but that's a terrible way to go.

Could you explain this a little more for me? Not disagreeing, but I just want to know why it's a terrible way to go.

Assume for a moment that I have a base level of income - that is, enough to pay for food, utilies, housing, clothes, car, etc. - covered. And look at this from an overall quality of life perspective. I don't want my life to be entirely consumed by work, but I don't want work to feel meaningless and dead end.

[zot1]

As the previous poster pointed out, you could be a contract attorney doing research and writing work. The downside to this is that you don't necessarily control you work inflow. One week you might work 20 hours, but 5 the next. Also, you get no benefits or retirement.

I think what you really want is a job that is between 40 to 60 hours.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think also contract attorney may mean more like doc review, which would feel entirely meaningless and dead end.

If you go solo you can work as many or as few hours as you like. I think it's pretty hard to find part-time work with a legal employer, though, based on people I know who've wanted to do that (mostly women with kids). I know of some part-time career judicial clerks, which would be a good deal if you could swing it (but difficult to arrange - most had worked full-time for a while before getting the part-time option. And not everyone likes sitting and researching and writing for other people every day).

[TLSModBot]

I'm thinking the closest you'll get is contract attorney stuff but that's a terrible way to go.

Could you explain this a little more for me? Not disagreeing, but I just want to know why it's a terrible way to go.

Assume for a moment that I have a base level of income - that is, enough to pay for food, utilies, housing, clothes, car, etc. - covered. And look at this from an overall quality of life perspective. I don't want my life to be entirely consumed by work, but I don't want work to feel meaningless and dead end.

Contract attorney work is generally bad (as compared to full-time legal positions) because (and yes these are generalities - there are numerous places with one or more exceptions):
1. It's grueling, boring work. Doc Review is mind-crushingly awful to do for any length of time.
2. You will be treated like shit by your employer: long or unpredictable hours based on the needs of the client, and they will do whatever they can to cut costs (i.e. your pay) to help the bottom line and make their staffing company more desirable for clients.
3. You will be treated like shit by the associates/staff attorneys managing the doc review. Contract attorneys are pretty much the lowest on the totem pole and regarded as subpar human beings.
4. By and large, contract attorneys are crazy/broken/terrible. For every okay/competent contract attorney, I've met 3 that are just awful.
5. The industry need for contract attorneys is shrinking, meaning less work to go around and more unpredictability if you're relying on that paycheck to eat.
6. It's a stain on your resume. Law firms won't hire you if you have contract attorney work. There are, of course, exceptions, but generally you'll be regarded with suspicion b/c of Point 4 above
7. It's not really legal work. So you're not getting any substantive experience or doing anything really worthwhile.

If it's just shits n' giggles money and you already have a career with significant free time to devote to the work and you don't have hobbies or friends you'd rather spend that time on, then I guess go for it?

[Troianii]

I'm thinking the closest you'll get is contract attorney stuff but that's a terrible way to go.

Could you explain this a little more for me? Not disagreeing, but I just want to know why it's a terrible way to go.

Assume for a moment that I have a base level of income - that is, enough to pay for food, utilies, housing, clothes, car, etc. - covered. And look at this from an overall quality of life perspective. I don't want my life to be entirely consumed by work, but I don't want work to feel meaningless and dead end.

Contract attorney work is generally bad (as compared to full-time legal positions) because (and yes these are generalities - there are numerous places with one or more exceptions):
1. It's grueling, boring work. Doc Review is mind-crushingly awful to do for any length of time.
2. You will be treated like shit by your employer: long or unpredictable hours based on the needs of the client, and they will do whatever they can to cut costs (i.e. your pay) to help the bottom line and make their staffing company more desirable for clients.
3. You will be treated like shit by the associates/staff attorneys managing the doc review. Contract attorneys are pretty much the lowest on the totem pole and regarded as subpar human beings.
4. By and large, contract attorneys are crazy/broken/terrible. For every okay/competent contract attorney, I've met 3 that are just awful.
5. The industry need for contract attorneys is shrinking, meaning less work to go around and more unpredictability if you're relying on that paycheck to eat.
6. It's a stain on your resume. Law firms won't hire you if you have contract attorney work. There are, of course, exceptions, but generally you'll be regarded with suspicion b/c of Point 4 above
7. It's not really legal work. So you're not getting any substantive experience or doing anything really worthwhile.

If it's just shits n' giggles money and you already have a career with significant free time to devote to the work and you don't have hobbies or friends you'd rather spend that time on, then I guess go for it?

OK, that helps.

My issue is that I'm a vet, and got pretty f***ed up in my service. Like 100% rated. The plus side is that that means that I have a base level of income which one can live off of - no frills, but it covers the basics. The first major downside is that, because of the issues, I don't know if I can work full time again. There were multiple times in the service I worked 72hrs in a 3 day period, but I know I can't do that anymore. For that reason, I've given up on even trying my hand at biglaw and, honestly, I'm skeptical about trying it at a legal job with 50-60hrs weekly work. So I'm just thinking ahead to see if part time work is a possibility in case what we may loosely call "real" legal work not working out.

[donde]

My biglaw firm is (for most practice groups) pretty flexible about offering idiosyncratic flex or part-time arrangements. For most people this means a combination of reduced billable target, guaranteed off day schedules (e.g., only work 3 full days a week) and ability to work remotely. It is theoretically even get back on the normal partnership track after having taken a few years like this.

The caveat is you need to put in at least 4-6 years of being a solid, valuable associate, with demonstrated ability to work very independently on the normal track before they will offer this option. Our firm has been increasingly moving towards this model to try and retain good mid-level/senior associates (most profit $$$) who would otherwise jump ship and I can see the industry shifting generally in this direction.

[zot1]

Consider federal honors programs. As a veteran, your application will be put ahead of many others so it might make it easier to get a spot.

Also, the hours are usually 40 per week.

Once you start working you can request a reasonable accommodation if you need one.

This could really be your best case scenario.

[Tls2016]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

[zot1]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I have to disagree with you here.

The federal government gives preference to veterans in hiring. Given OP's status, he has a shot at getting one of the honors positions. But also employers, public or private, cannot discriminate against OP due to his disability or his prior service.

Getting the job will be the rough part, but that's the same for everybody.

[Tls2016]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I have to disagree with you here.

The federal government gives preference to veterans in hiring. Given OP's status, he has a shot at getting one of the honors positions. But also employers, public or private, cannot discriminate against OP due to his disability or his prior service.

Getting the job will be the rough part, but that's the same for everybody.

OP is looking for part time work which is not easy to find, won't make much money and will require 3 years of school and stress.

It isn't discriminatory to refuse to hire someone who can't work the hours needed. (There is no reasonable accomodation there, unless the law has changed and I don't feel like researching it.)

My feeling is OP needs a lower stress job with more controllable hours than he will find in law.

Edit: I may be wrong about the part time accomodation but it has to not be an undue hardship to an employer.
I don't think OP should start a law school career when there is no real path available.

OP here is a link about gov hiring with disabilities:
https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/d ... y-hiring-0

There are points of contact people linked there that you should email and ask your question about hiring and part time work.

[zot1]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I have to disagree with you here.

The federal government gives preference to veterans in hiring. Given OP's status, he has a shot at getting one of the honors positions. But also employers, public or private, cannot discriminate against OP due to his disability or his prior service.

Getting the job will be the rough part, but that's the same for everybody.

OP is looking for part time work which is not easy to find, won't make much money and will require 3 years of school and stress.

It isn't discriminatory to refuse to hire someone who can't work the hours needed. (There is no reasonable accomodation there, unless the law has changed and I don't feel like researching it.)

My feeling is OP needs a lower stress job with more controllable hours than he will find in law.

Edit: I may be wrong about the part time accomodation but it has to not be an undue hardship to an employer.
I don't think OP should start a law school career when there is no real path available.

You can't discriminate in hiring. Nevertheless, my point is that if he gets a job, specially in federal government, which he has a good shot due to veteran status, he can then request accommodations that will make it easier for him to work.

Accommodations can be a lot of things-like telecommuting or more breaks or whatever.

You are correct that it can't be an undue burden, but it rarely is. Unless the accommodation requires the individual to not work...

[Tls2016]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I have to disagree with you here.

The federal government gives preference to veterans in hiring. Given OP's status, he has a shot at getting one of the honors positions. But also employers, public or private, cannot discriminate against OP due to his disability or his prior service.

Getting the job will be the rough part, but that's the same for everybody.

OP is looking for part time work which is not easy to find, won't make much money and will require 3 years of school and stress.

It isn't discriminatory to refuse to hire someone who can't work the hours needed. (There is no reasonable accomodation there, unless the law has changed and I don't feel like researching it.)

My feeling is OP needs a lower stress job with more controllable hours than he will find in law.

Edit: I may be wrong about the part time accomodation but it has to not be an undue hardship to an employer.
I don't think OP should start a law school career when there is no real path available.

You can't discriminate in hiring. Nevertheless, my point is that if he gets a job, specially in federal government, which he has a good shot due to veteran status, he can then request accommodations that will make it easier for him to work.

Accommodations can be a lot of things-like telecommuting or more breaks or whatever.

You are correct that it can't be an undue burden, but it rarely is. Unless the accommodation requires the individual to not work...

I think OP is doubting how much he can work hours wise.
OP: here is a link to the contacts, I would email all of them and get advice

https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/d ... ts-contact

[zot1]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I have to disagree with you here.

The federal government gives preference to veterans in hiring. Given OP's status, he has a shot at getting one of the honors positions. But also employers, public or private, cannot discriminate against OP due to his disability or his prior service.

Getting the job will be the rough part, but that's the same for everybody.

OP is looking for part time work which is not easy to find, won't make much money and will require 3 years of school and stress.

It isn't discriminatory to refuse to hire someone who can't work the hours needed. (There is no reasonable accomodation there, unless the law has changed and I don't feel like researching it.)

My feeling is OP needs a lower stress job with more controllable hours than he will find in law.

Edit: I may be wrong about the part time accomodation but it has to not be an undue hardship to an employer.
I don't think OP should start a law school career when there is no real path available.

You can't discriminate in hiring. Nevertheless, my point is that if he gets a job, specially in federal government, which he has a good shot due to veteran status, he can then request accommodations that will make it easier for him to work.

Accommodations can be a lot of things-like telecommuting or more breaks or whatever.

You are correct that it can't be an undue burden, but it rarely is. Unless the accommodation requires the individual to not work...

I think OP is doubting how much he can work hours wise.
OP: here is a link to the contacts, I would email all of them and get advice

https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/d ... ts-contact

[Tls2016]

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I have to disagree with you here.

The federal government gives preference to veterans in hiring. Given OP's status, he has a shot at getting one of the honors positions. But also employers, public or private, cannot discriminate against OP due to his disability or his prior service.

Getting the job will be the rough part, but that's the same for everybody.

OP is looking for part time work which is not easy to find, won't make much money and will require 3 years of school and stress.

It isn't discriminatory to refuse to hire someone who can't work the hours needed. (There is no reasonable accomodation there, unless the law has changed and I don't feel like researching it.)

My feeling is OP needs a lower stress job with more controllable hours than he will find in law.

Edit: I may be wrong about the part time accomodation but it has to not be an undue hardship to an employer.
I don't think OP should start a law school career when there is no real path available.

You can't discriminate in hiring. Nevertheless, my point is that if he gets a job, specially in federal government, which he has a good shot due to veteran status, he can then request accommodations that will make it easier for him to work.

Accommodations can be a lot of things-like telecommuting or more breaks or whatever.

You are correct that it can't be an undue burden, but it rarely is. Unless the accommodation requires the individual to not work...

I think OP is doubting how much he can work hours wise.
OP: here is a link to the contacts, I would email all of them and get advice

https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/d ... ts-contact

I feel that people would answer OP question about disability and hours. He can use a fake account if he doesn't want to give his name. It's basic job networking and research. He needs to get info before he goes to school and starts down this path.

[kellyfrost]

Here is a thought:
Get your name added to your local county/district/superior/municipal or whatever it might be, Court Appointed Attorney list. It won't be full time by any means, but you will be given case assignments when the local public defender's office is conflicted out. It will pay an hourly rate of whatever your local court agrees to pay appointed attorneys.
Better that doc review, but criminal law only.

[Troianii]

Hey, let me start off by saying thanks for all the responses. I really do appreciate it.

Here is a thought:
Get your name added to your local county/district/superior/municipal or whatever it might be, Court Appointed Attorney list. It won't be full time by any means, but you will be given case assignments when the local public defender's office is conflicted out. It will pay an hourly rate of whatever your local court agrees to pay appointed attorneys.
Better that doc review, but criminal law only.

That's a thought.

My biglaw firm is (for most practice groups) pretty flexible about offering idiosyncratic flex or part-time arrangements. For most people this means a combination of reduced billable target, guaranteed off day schedules (e.g., only work 3 full days a week) and ability to work remotely. It is theoretically even get back on the normal partnership track after having taken a few years like this.

The caveat is you need to put in at least 4-6 years of being a solid, valuable associate, with demonstrated ability to work very independently on the normal track before they will offer this option. Our firm has been increasingly moving towards this model to try and retain good mid-level/senior associates (most profit $$$) who would otherwise jump ship and I can see the industry shifting generally in this direction.

Consider federal honors programs. As a veteran, your application will be put ahead of many others so it might make it easier to get a spot.

Also, the hours are usually 40 per week.

Once you start working you can request a reasonable accommodation if you need one.

This could really be your best case scenario.

I'll look into that. I'm honestly not sure exactly what the federal honors program is, but there was one "ideal" job that I was looking at that was federal. It was working for the Navy General Counsel at an office close to home.

I think you may look into another career. Law is incredibly saturated and you need to be able to work when your clients need you.

If you aren't sure how many hours you can work, I would look into something less stressful and more rewarding than law.

Why are you thinking about law school? What is your goal?

I appreciate the thought, and it's been suggested to me before, but I still want to pursue a career in law. Part of it is just that I want to do something I'm good at, and this is one of the few things in life that I think I would be really good at. It is also something which tends to pay better than jobs obtained with a bachelor's in the humanities, which I have. But my total bill for attending law school (tuition + fees) will be a couple thousand, because of gi bill benefits I have. I guess what I'm saying is that the worst case scenario for me going to law school is not that bad, and if a career in law doesn't work out I'll be ok (I'll actually graduate without debt), but I don't think I'll be unable to find any legal employment at all.

Just for clarification, in case there is any confusion on this - I'm okay with seeking full time legal employment, but I am concerned my conditions might result in my not being able to work at par in full time employment, and I'm looking for possibilities outside of working typical 40-50hrs a week.

[Tls2016]

The links I posted were from the DOJ .
This is the main page about honors program:
https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/e ... -attorneys

I'm sorry I misunderstood how many hours you were considering.

Good luck with everything.

[Troianii]

The links I posted were from the DOJ .
This is the main page about honors program:
https://www.justice.gov/legal-careers/e ... -attorneys

I'm sorry I misunderstood how many hours you were considering.

Good luck with everything.

Thanks for the advice, link and well wishes. Hopefully I'm just worrying more than I need to and it will work out fine.