Philly BigLaw: T20 > Temple? Forum

[gazorpazorp]

Recent Temple undergrad and 0L here.

While I would not categorize my career goals as "Philly BigLaw or Bust," Philly is probably my preferred market & location at this point in time. Of course, my top choice was Penn, to which I was waitlisted. My options currently are shaping up to look like this:

Michigan - not expecting much fin aid, if any
GULC - expecting some fin aid
GW - was already offered their "max" scholarship for RD applicants - will be pushing for a full-ride
WUSTL - expecting near/full-ride
Temple - full-ride (and no cost-of-living expense)

I am giving myself a migraine trying to weigh the pros and cons of these options. For one, it seems that Temple is the #2 best-represented school in PBL, but only 13% get BL at all.

Michigan and GULC have far superior BL numbers in general, but they just don't seem to place well in Philly (or end up here at all). I suspect that this has a lot to do with the fact that Mich/GULC students aren't even attempting to get jobs in Philly -- and maybe if I did attend one of those schools & performed median or better (along with demonstrating "ties" & strong interest in Philly throughout school) I would have a leg up over Temple grads.

And then there are WUSTL & GW - which place better in BigLaw than Temple, & would leave me with far less debt than Michigan/GULC. Would going to either of these schools and performing median+ (along with demonstrating interest in the Philly market & attempting to spend my 1L/2L summers in Philly) give me a leg up over Temple grads due to the schools' relative prestige/academic reputation?

FWIW: I've taken the LSAT 3 times already

[nick417]

Recent Temple undergrad and 0L here.

While I would not categorize my career goals as "Philly BigLaw or Bust," Philly is probably my preferred market & location at this point in time. Of course, my top choice was Penn, to which I was waitlisted. My options currently are shaping up to look like this:

Michigan - not expecting much fin aid, if any
GULC - expecting some fin aid
GW - was already offered their "max" scholarship for RD applicants - will be pushing for a full-ride
WUSTL - expecting near/full-ride
Temple - full-ride (and no cost-of-living expense)

I am giving myself a migraine trying to weigh the pros and cons of these options. For one, it seems that Temple is the #2 best-represented school in PBL, but only 13% get BL at all.

Michigan and GULC have far superior BL numbers in general, but they just don't seem to place well in Philly (or end up here at all). I suspect that this has a lot to do with the fact that Mich/GULC students aren't even attempting to get jobs in Philly -- and maybe if I did attend one of those schools & performed median or better (along with demonstrating "ties" & strong interest in Philly throughout school) I would have a leg up over Temple grads.

And then there are WUSTL & GW - which place better in BigLaw than Temple, & would leave me with far less debt than Michigan/GULC. Would going to either of these schools and performing median+ (along with demonstrating interest in the Philly market & attempting to spend my 1L/2L summers in Philly) give me a leg up over Temple grads due to the schools' relative prestige/academic reputation?

FWIW: I've taken the LSAT 3 times already

I don't know what WUSTL is (I dislike this alphabet soup on here, how hard is it to type G-town really).

Anyway, law firms in Philly love people with local ties and a strong interest in living and practicing in Philly. Going to Temple for undergrad is a big bonus. But where did you grow up, are you from around the Philly area? If your only connection to Philly is Temple and then you go to Michigan for law school, that could be a red flag. If you really love Philly, why leave to go to Michigan for law school?

If your goal is big law in general, going to G-town or Michigan are better options than Temple (obviously). If your goal is to live in Philly and work at one of the firms there, Temple, G-Town, and possibly GW are probably the better options. The problem with Michigan is I doubt the Philly firms travel there for OCI. If they aren't there for OCI, that is another hurdle to overcome (not impossible but another hurdle). Check and see how many of the Philly firms travel to each school for OCI, and that is a good determination of your chances of finding a SA position in Philly.

[nick417]

Recent Temple undergrad and 0L here.

And then there are WUSTL & GW - which place better in BigLaw than Temple, & would leave me with far less debt than Michigan/GULC. Would going to either of these schools and performing median+ (along with demonstrating interest in the Philly market & attempting to spend my 1L/2L summers in Philly) give me a leg up over Temple grads due to the schools' relative prestige/academic reputation?

FWIW: I've taken the LSAT 3 times already

Also, I should say that median+ at whatever WUSTL (washington univ in st. louis? haha) or GW will not make you more competitive than the top students at Temple. You have to remember, Philly has Penn, Nova, Temple, and Rutgers-C. Each of these schools usually places one student at the firms in Philly. So the top students at Nova, Temple and Rutgers-C are competitive for these positions. They also have stronger local ties because they go to school in Philly. So I would think that you would still need to be a top student at WUSTL & GW to be competitive for positions in Philly. But that is just my guess.

[curious bobcat]

Work and study for the LSAT until you are eligible for a retake.

A few years of WE and a solid LSAT score will get you into Penn. Their median, a 169, is an attainable goal for any person with enough good studying.

I know it sounds crazy, but so is the goal of Philly Biglaw with your options now. Temple (especially w/ a full ride) can be a good choice for those who definitely want to stay local, but it is not a good choice if you are set on local AND Big Law. You will have decades to be a lawyer either way, but front-loading some "hardship" now will have an insane ROI for the rest of your life.

[gazorpazorp]

Thanks guys.

Recent Temple undergrad and 0L here.

While I would not categorize my career goals as "Philly BigLaw or Bust," Philly is probably my preferred market & location at this point in time. Of course, my top choice was Penn, to which I was waitlisted. My options currently are shaping up to look like this:

Michigan - not expecting much fin aid, if any
GULC - expecting some fin aid
GW - was already offered their "max" scholarship for RD applicants - will be pushing for a full-ride
WUSTL - expecting near/full-ride
Temple - full-ride (and no cost-of-living expense)

I am giving myself a migraine trying to weigh the pros and cons of these options. For one, it seems that Temple is the #2 best-represented school in PBL, but only 13% get BL at all.

Michigan and GULC have far superior BL numbers in general, but they just don't seem to place well in Philly (or end up here at all). I suspect that this has a lot to do with the fact that Mich/GULC students aren't even attempting to get jobs in Philly -- and maybe if I did attend one of those schools & performed median or better (along with demonstrating "ties" & strong interest in Philly throughout school) I would have a leg up over Temple grads.

And then there are WUSTL & GW - which place better in BigLaw than Temple, & would leave me with far less debt than Michigan/GULC. Would going to either of these schools and performing median+ (along with demonstrating interest in the Philly market & attempting to spend my 1L/2L summers in Philly) give me a leg up over Temple grads due to the schools' relative prestige/academic reputation?

FWIW: I've taken the LSAT 3 times already

I don't know what WUSTL is (I dislike this alphabet soup on here, how hard is it to type G-town really).

Anyway, law firms in Philly love people with local ties and a strong interest in living and practicing in Philly. Going to Temple for undergrad is a big bonus. But where did you grow up, are you from around the Philly area? If your only connection to Philly is Temple and then you go to Michigan for law school, that could be a red flag. If you really love Philly, why leave to go to Michigan for law school?

If your goal is big law in general, going to G-town or Michigan are better options than Temple (obviously). If your goal is to live in Philly and work at one of the firms there, Temple, G-Town, and possibly GW are probably the better options. The problem with Michigan is I doubt the Philly firms travel there for OCI. If they aren't there for OCI, that is another hurdle to overcome (not impossible but another hurdle). Check and see how many of the Philly firms travel to each school for OCI, and that is a good determination of your chances of finding a SA position in Philly.

1) Washington University in St. Louis!

2) I've lived in Philly/20 minutes from Philly my entire life. Went to high school in the surrounding suburbs, college at Temple, covered Philly sports throughout undergrad, parents & grandparents & great-grandparents lived here, etc. So the ties are there.

3) My primary goal is BigLaw, with a secondary goal of minimizing debt and a tertiary goal of working in Philly. I'm geographically flexible, but Philly is my ideal landing spot, with NYC and DC probably being 2nd & 3rd. It seems to me that GULC (if they give me substantially more scholly money than Mich) is the relative "best" choice with these goals in mind, but I still may be swayed to Michigan or one of the other T14 schools I haven't heard back from (hoping Northwestern pulls through as they are historically more generous with schollys, and I'd probably shelf the Philly thing for a shot at substantial $ from a school of that caliber).

4) As far as seeing how many Philly firms travel to each school for OCI... How exactly do I find that info? (Sorry for being a dunce - goes to show why I didn't end up at Penn )

Work and study for the LSAT until you are eligible for a retake.

A few years of WE and a solid LSAT score will get you into Penn. Their median, a 169, is an attainable goal for any person with enough good studying.

I know it sounds crazy, but so is the goal of Philly Biglaw with your options now. Temple (especially w/ a full ride) can be a good choice for those who definitely want to stay local, but it is not a good choice if you are set on local AND Big Law. You will have decades to be a lawyer either way, but front-loading some "hardship" now will have an insane ROI for the rest of your life.

Oh my. Can't escape the retake response even though I've maxed out? Not going to lie, this is something I've considered. However, a) I already took a gap year of purely working at a crappy customer service job & studying for the LSAT, b) I'm not sure why I should expect to outperform what I've done in 3 tries to this point, c) I'm not Philly-or-bust, and d) if I were to surge into the 170s, which I do not think is likely, I'd probably take a fat scholly from Cornell or Northwestern over sticker at Penn. And I don't think I'm willing to sit out for 2 years based on the prospect of maybe, but probably not, turning a meh scholly into a bigger scholly.

All that being said, if GULC and Michigan both fail to pull through with anything resembling a worthwhile scholly, this is back on the table, and I will acknowledge that based on my original post ("I WANT PHILLY BIGLAW!") this is a well-reasoned response.

[nick417]

Thanks guys.

Recent Temple undergrad and 0L here.

While I would not categorize my career goals as "Philly BigLaw or Bust," Philly is probably my preferred market & location at this point in time. Of course, my top choice was Penn, to which I was waitlisted. My options currently are shaping up to look like this:

Michigan - not expecting much fin aid, if any
GULC - expecting some fin aid
GW - was already offered their "max" scholarship for RD applicants - will be pushing for a full-ride
WUSTL - expecting near/full-ride
Temple - full-ride (and no cost-of-living expense)

I am giving myself a migraine trying to weigh the pros and cons of these options. For one, it seems that Temple is the #2 best-represented school in PBL, but only 13% get BL at all.

Michigan and GULC have far superior BL numbers in general, but they just don't seem to place well in Philly (or end up here at all). I suspect that this has a lot to do with the fact that Mich/GULC students aren't even attempting to get jobs in Philly -- and maybe if I did attend one of those schools & performed median or better (along with demonstrating "ties" & strong interest in Philly throughout school) I would have a leg up over Temple grads.

And then there are WUSTL & GW - which place better in BigLaw than Temple, & would leave me with far less debt than Michigan/GULC. Would going to either of these schools and performing median+ (along with demonstrating interest in the Philly market & attempting to spend my 1L/2L summers in Philly) give me a leg up over Temple grads due to the schools' relative prestige/academic reputation?

FWIW: I've taken the LSAT 3 times already

I don't know what WUSTL is (I dislike this alphabet soup on here, how hard is it to type G-town really).

Anyway, law firms in Philly love people with local ties and a strong interest in living and practicing in Philly. Going to Temple for undergrad is a big bonus. But where did you grow up, are you from around the Philly area? If your only connection to Philly is Temple and then you go to Michigan for law school, that could be a red flag. If you really love Philly, why leave to go to Michigan for law school?

If your goal is big law in general, going to G-town or Michigan are better options than Temple (obviously). If your goal is to live in Philly and work at one of the firms there, Temple, G-Town, and possibly GW are probably the better options. The problem with Michigan is I doubt the Philly firms travel there for OCI. If they aren't there for OCI, that is another hurdle to overcome (not impossible but another hurdle). Check and see how many of the Philly firms travel to each school for OCI, and that is a good determination of your chances of finding a SA position in Philly.

1) Washington University in St. Louis!

2) I've lived in Philly/20 minutes from Philly my entire life. Went to high school in the surrounding suburbs, college at Temple, covered Philly sports throughout undergrad, parents & grandparents & great-grandparents lived here, etc. So the ties are there.

3) My primary goal is BigLaw, with a secondary goal of minimizing debt and a tertiary goal of working in Philly. I'm geographically flexible, but Philly is my ideal landing spot, with NYC and DC probably being 2nd & 3rd. It seems to me that GULC (if they give me substantially more scholly money than Mich) is the relative "best" choice with these goals in mind, but I still may be swayed to Michigan or one of the other T14 schools I haven't heard back from (hoping Northwestern pulls through as they are historically more generous with schollys, and I'd probably shelf the Philly thing for a shot at substantial $ from a school of that caliber).

4) As far as seeing how many Philly firms travel to each school for OCI... How exactly do I find that info? (Sorry for being a dunce - goes to show why I didn't end up at Penn )

Work and study for the LSAT until you are eligible for a retake.

Awesome. If your goal is big law, then you should attend the best school possible (I guess T-14 or T-10). You shouldn't go to a school like Temple with dreams of big law as so few students even have the opportunity. Not impossible, but just unlikely. I don't know anything about GW and St. Louis but I imagine it is still difficult. But since you are from Philly, you may have a realistic shot regardless of where you go because it is easy to explain why you want to live and work in Philly. So that plays in your favor here.

As for the OCI list, some firms post the schools they visit on their website (look for their summer associate information). If that doesn't work, ask the school to provide you a list of firms that came their for OCI.

[Jerry.yang]

WUSTl Grad in philly.

WUSTl has pretty good biglaw numbers in Chicago, DC, NYC, not so much for Philadelphia because they don't really come out for OCI and other related factors.

The people from WUSTl who successfully got BigLag in Philly did a lot of the work on their own. They reached out to the Philly firms, networked a ton, and maintained high grades/rankings in school. If you're looking for biglaw in Philly from WUSTl, easily doable but you'll have to put in a little extra work than if you were gunning for NYC, Chicago, etc.