Really Bad Grades 1st Semester Forum

[jrass]

My degree is in history. I didn't know that it paid $12 an hour until after I got contacted back. I wouldn't apply for something that paid $12 an hour. From the online listing it sounded like it would be something that was salaried. I can't work for $12 an hour but ill take it if it can lead to a fulltime position that is salaried.

Just get some confidence, develop a plan and get better grades.

[Troubled1L]

I hope you're right. I'm on the fence about what to do. While the pay is terrible for this job, every semester I stay in law school I will add on more debt without bringing in any money. $12 at twenty to thirty hours a week will suck but what if I can get a full-time job out of this. And I did apply to jobs that pay a lot more but I'm still waiting to hear back. Some of them had assessments that I feel I did well on because they involved math problems. I'd be embarrassed to tell my friends I dropped out.

[jrass]

I hope you're right. I'm on the fence about what to do. While the pay is terrible for this job, every semester I stay in law school I will add on more debt without bringing in any money. $12 at twenty to thirty hours a week will suck but what if I can get a full-time job out of this. And I did apply to jobs that pay a lot more but I'm still waiting to hear back. Some of them had assessments that I feel I did well on because they involved math problems. I'd be embarrassed to tell my friends I dropped out.

Well you only have to improve by about .26 depending on the credit load to keep your scholarship, which is challenging but not crazy. There's no reason to approach it like a company filing for bankruptcy when all you know is you've had a bad quarter. It sounds like you need some direction, but applying to random internet job postings open to anyone with a BA isn't the best way to get direction.

[Clearly]

How much money do you expect to earn as a lawyer, and in what scenario (public interest, government, small firm, big firm etc)

Op?

[Troubled1L]

To Clearly

45,000 at the most since my grades are so bad.

[jrass]

To Clearly

45,000 at the most since my grades are so bad.

There's no algorithm where grades are added and divided to spit out a salary. Each situation exists independently.

[Clearly]

To Clearly

45,000 at the most since my grades are so bad.

There's no algorithm where grades are added and divided to spit out a salary. Each situation exists independently.

he has bad grades, from a bad school. Let him be realistic please!

[James.K.Polk]

Perhaps this is inappropriate, but seeing the phrase "really bad grades" just makes me think of the introduction to "Nathan For You"

[Troubled1L]

Heh not inappropriate.


I'm sticking it out regardless. I spent too much energy on law school. I'll just get a loan forgiveness job if I lose the scholarship.

[Troubled1L]

C+
2.48 GPA
Time to pull the plug.

[Tls2016]

C+
2.48 GPA
Time to pull the plug.

Yeah. Put effort into something else.

[jchiles]

Don't go to hertz, I know a couple people who went into some program like that with them and it was just a big waste of time.

[BeyonceBeytwice]

I would NOT consider dropping out until the end of next semester. I've heard of a lot graduates from my school doing poorly their first semester and going on to Cali courses and get great jobs because they networked, worked hard, and stayed focused.

However, you should as yourself if you are in law school because it is what you want to do or because you felt like there was no option given your background (not judging at all - I have a poli/sci degree from an unknown institution). But it is going to require a lot of hard work, a lot of money on treatises, and a lot ABA luncheons and sending emails but getting no responses to secure a job after law school, especially if you are unable to bring up your score.

TLDR: You can still rise in the ranks and get a job, but it will require an immense amount of work, so it isn't worth it if your heart isn't in ti - no matter what your GPA is.

[jrass]

I would NOT consider dropping out until the end of next semester. I've heard of a lot graduates from my school doing poorly their first semester and going on to Cali courses and get great jobs because they networked, worked hard, and stayed focused.

However, you should as yourself if you are in law school because it is what you want to do or because you felt like there was no option given your background (not judging at all - I have a poli/sci degree from an unknown institution). But it is going to require a lot of hard work, a lot of money on treatises, and a lot ABA luncheons and sending emails but getting no responses to secure a job after law school, especially if you are unable to bring up your score.

TLDR: You can still rise in the ranks and get a job, but it will require an immense amount of work, so it isn't worth it if your heart isn't in ti - no matter what your GPA is.

This is bad advice. This happens sometimes, but is not the norm. It's also more common at more esteemed schools where everyone is qualified, and we're talking about a very tight curve where having a B average vs. a B+/A- being the dividing link between 75% of the class. Here, the person would need straight A's. Anything is possible, but we deal with probabilities in our profession. You don't advise a client to go to trial because there's a 1:1000 chance they can win.

[totesTheGoat]

we're talking about a very tight curve where having a B average vs. a B+/A- being the dividing link between 75% of the class. Here, the person would need straight A's.

The person would need a 3.7 or so in order to get back in the range of median. That's not easy, but it's not crazy. It's only one semester, and it's during 1L.

Anything is possible, but we deal with probabilities in our profession. You don't advise a client to go to trial because there's a 1:1000 chance they can win.

I had a chuckle at that. My experience is that our profession does everything possible to avoid actual math, and uses cognitive biases to "justify" our gut instinct as "probability."

Here's what I'll say. OP needs to scrap everything they did first semester. It didn't work. Either OP needs to drop out or they need to work their ass off next semester. 1L is the year where effort influences your grade the most. I also don't buy that there's a 1:1000 chance of somebody having a really shitty first semester and then ending up around median after 1L. It's much more common than that.

[jrass]

we're talking about a very tight curve where having a B average vs. a B+/A- being the dividing link between 75% of the class. Here, the person would need straight A's.

The person would need a 3.7 or so in order to get back in the range of median. That's not easy, but it's not crazy. It's only one semester, and it's during 1L.

Anything is possible, but we deal with probabilities in our profession. You don't advise a client to go to trial because there's a 1:1000 chance they can win.

I had a chuckle at that. My experience is that our profession does everything possible to avoid actual math, and uses cognitive biases to "justify" our gut instinct as "probability."

Here's what I'll say. OP needs to scrap everything they did first semester. It didn't work. Either OP needs to drop out or they need to work their ass off next semester. 1L is the year where effort influences your grade the most. I also don't buy that there's a 1:1000 chance of somebody having a really shitty first semester and then ending up around median after 1L. It's much more common than that.

Right but that's easier than going from a 2.7 to a 35. OP essentially must go from bottom of the class to top of the class in every subject.

And your latter point isn't true. It may be true in school, but in practice lawyers are expected to give business advice IN ADDITION to legal advice. Clients are hiring you for your judgment across the board. Not warning a client of reasonably ascertainable odds and taking into account cost is grounds for malpractice.

[totesTheGoat]

Not warning a client of reasonably ascertainable odds and taking into account cost is grounds for malpractice.

Right, but it's not about that. The OP is well aware of the difficulty that lies ahead. However, another purpose of a "counselor" is to provide analysis about how best to approach a decision. Clients quite often don't know how to approach a problem, but can apply their superior understanding of their own business/person when they're guided through the legal minefield. I never tell my clients what to do. I merely give them suggestions as to the best course of action, along with the consequences of taking any one of multiple courses of action. They are the decision maker, I am just there to guide them through their decision making process.

Similarly, I'm not going to tell the OP to drop out. I'm going to tell them exactly what it's going to take to get back to a respectable GPA and let them decide whether they have the work ethic to pull it off.

[baal hadad]

C+
2.48 GPA
Time to pull the plug.

You don't seem like you want to be a lawyer that much and your grades are bottom of the barrel

I'd drop out

[Troubled1L]

I was offered a job yesterday for a manager trainee position at a car rental company. It pays $35,000/year and I'm expected to work M-F 8-6pm and Saturdays from 9-12.
It's supposedly really tough work, but there's an opportunity to make $60,000 as a manager if you can stick it out. You all say that no one makes that much in law, much less with my grades. I just don't know if I can take this and leave my friends behind. I'm really sad.

[Tls2016]

I was offered a job yesterday for a manager trainee position at a car rental company. It pays $35,000/year and I'm expected to work M-F 8-6pm and Saturdays from 9-12.
It's supposedly really tough work, but there's an opportunity to make $60,000 as a manager if you can stick it out. You all say that no one makes that much in law, much less with my grades. I just don't know if I can take this and leave my friends behind. I'm really sad.

Read the Vale of tears thread and see what those lawyers are making and what hours they are working. It's not much more, and sometimes less, than the job you were offered.

I find it hard to believe you can't find any job with your undergrad degree from a good school, even if it was in history. I wonder how much hustle and networking you are capable of doing. Not everyone has that personality.

I don't even understand how you ended up at a bad school with a conditional scholarship. How many times did you take the LSAT? How driven were you about that?

My point OP is that you maybe lack the kind of drive or personality that might help you get a good job out of law school given your circumstances.

I don't see why you would stay in law school. Being able to hang out with your friends isn't a reason.

[Troubled1L]

Tls, I couldn't tell you. I applied to a lot of jobs within the past week and this happens to be one that got back to me quickly. I don't see why you're treating it like a bad job. What can I really get with my degree? I think my ceiling is 50,000 anyway with this degree. 35,000 isn't a bad deal. I'll make sure to read that thread you mentioned. If it's true, then you must be telling me to take this rental car job and call it quits. You don't understand when it comes to my classmates. I always have a fun time with them. It's the only reason I'm considering staying because I don't want the good times to end.

[Tls2016]

Tls, I couldn't tell you. I applied to a lot of jobs within the past week and this happens to be one that got back to me quickly. I don't see why you're treating it like a bad job. What can I really get with my degree? I think my ceiling is 50,000 anyway with this degree. 35,000 isn't a bad deal. I'll make sure to read that thread you mentioned. If it's true, then you must be telling me to take this rental car job and call it quits. You don't understand when it comes to my classmates. I always have a fun time with them. It's the only reason I'm considering staying because I don't want the good times to end.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to treat it like its a bad job. I meant it's a better job than some law grads are going to obtain. Did you look for jobs at all after undergrad?

[Troubled1L]

Oh I get that. I just thought you were suggesting that I shouldn't take this job because I can get something substantially better because of my undergrad prestige. If that's true, then I won't take this, but I don't know why it'd be true. I just feel that my options are limited with a B.A. in history.

[ronanOgara]

Tls, I couldn't tell you. I applied to a lot of jobs within the past week and this happens to be one that got back to me quickly. I don't see why you're treating it like a bad job. What can I really get with my degree? I think my ceiling is 50,000 anyway with this degree. 35,000 isn't a bad deal. I'll make sure to read that thread you mentioned. If it's true, then you must be telling me to take this rental car job and call it quits. You don't understand when it comes to my classmates. I always have a fun time with them. It's the only reason I'm considering staying because I don't want the good times to end.

You're at a real fork here OP. I personally don't think law school is right for you. It sounds like you have low expectations in your career as an attorney. Further, you wanting to stay in school because you have fun with your classmates isn't an appropriate reason to stay; it'll end up being the most expensive bar tab you've ever gotten. I don't want to diminish the relationships you've created with your classmates, but its something you need to consider.

That being said, the rental car gig doesn't sound like a good alternate plan. It just sounds like a dead end. There's gotta be something else out there for you if you're an Ivy grad. Can you reach out to your UG's career services and see if they can give you any guidance?

Good luck OP.

[elterrible78]

What, if anything, makes you qualified to opine on the quality of Zuck's advice?

When someone gives that poor of advice someone should interfere whether qualified or not.

What makes you qualified to evaluate the advice as poor?