public defender - how does it really work? Forum

[Troianii]

So I've heard a lot of things and... it ultimately has left me a bit confused as to how the job works, and I'm confused and just looking for clarification.

So the way I've heard the term used, I always had the impression that public defender was a job - a full time position, not a "gig", so to speak. But then I've heard a lot that seems different. The first is from TV so obviously not reliable, but watching "Better Call Saul", New Mexico paid him $700 per case, and he basically came in as a solo lawyer and picked up case after case. But then I was reading an article about a state where the state hires private lawyers at $50/hr, and apparently a few firms specialize in it.

So is public defender normally a salaried government job, or is it normally something that private lawyers do case by case for the government?

While on that,I'm curious about compensation. I've often heard that PD wages are low, around 40k a year, but... idk, if compensation is 50/hr, and people are working at 60% efficiency, then 2000 hrs (with 1200 billable) would be 60k... which doesn't sound so horrible as I've heard, so I'm assuming there's something I missed and hoping someone can help clear it up. Thanks.

[xRON MEXiCOx]

It varies by state/county bro.

[FutureLitigator]

Saul Goodman also went to University of American Samoa Law School. But if you are really curious to what you saw, he is employed by the PD office and when he goes in to get his checks, those are from his clients, not "gigs". So, he is already employed, he doesn't just go in and get cases "gigs" the person giving the checks/cases only gives it to people that are part of the PD office.

Also, he has his own practice on the side and that may confuse you and make it look like it was only "gigs". Take into consideration as well the show takes place approx. 20 years ago.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It's both. You can be employed full time as a salaried employer by a state/county public defenders office, or you can be appointed to defend the indigent as a private attorney. This is done either when the state/county PD's office is conflicted out, or there aren't enough state/county PDs. For appointments, your payment comes from (and rates are set by) the state. Usually when people here talk about being a PD they're talking about the former, because I think most private attorneys doing appointments take private clients as well.

Keep in mind that private attorneys who do appointments are very frequently solos (or in very small firms of 2-3 attorneys) and so out of the theoretical $60k you have to cover overhead, office staff, benefits, vacation, etc. You'd also be taxed as an independent contractor. I don't know much about firms specializing in this, but you get appointed as an individual, not as a firm.

Edit: I haven't watched Better Call Saul, but I don't think the post above is right. No one doing public defense is getting checks from clients. And I don't think PDs can have a practice on the side (though if you have a private practice appointments can be part of that).

[xRON MEXiCOx]

It's both. You can be employed full time as a salaried employer by a state/county public defenders office, or you can be appointed to defend the indigent as a private attorney. This is done either when the state/county PD's office is conflicted out, or there aren't enough state/county PDs. For appointments, your payment comes from (and rates are set by) the state. Usually when people here talk about being a PD they're talking about the former, because I think most private attorneys doing appointments take private clients as well.

Keep in mind that private attorneys who do appointments are very frequently solos (or in very small firms of 2-3 attorneys) and so out of the theoretical $60k you have to cover overhead, office staff, benefits, vacation, etc. You'd also be taxed as an independent contractor. I don't know much about firms specializing in this, but you get appointed as an individual, not as a firm.

Lots of rural counties dont even have a PDs office. In my counties, there's a contract that one two person firm holds and then everything that is conflicted out goes to a panel of solos but there's no public defenders office in the district aside from the feds.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, I left that part out. I'd heard that a lot of parts of Texas are like that, too.

[ThinkNegative]

Ron Mexico and A Mouse are 100 % correct. The FutureLitigator poster is wrong or trolling.

To add one wrinkle: in some jurisdictions that have PD offices (as opposed to a panel appointment-type system), the office is an independent nonprofit that has an arrangement with the city. Most notably, this is how it works in NYC. The Bronx Defenders, Neighborhood Defender Service of Harlem, and Legal Aid Society are all independent 501c3s. (The relative independence arguably gives them more latitude to innovate and to get involved in policy advocacy / impact litigation, which are good things.)

Finally, an interesting anomaly is San Francisco, where the PD is an elected official just like the DA. AFAIK this is the only Jx in the US with an elected PD.

[Troianii]

It's both. You can be employed full time as a salaried employer by a state/county public defenders office, or you can be appointed to defend the indigent as a private attorney. This is done either when the state/county PD's office is conflicted out, or there aren't enough state/county PDs. For appointments, your payment comes from (and rates are set by) the state. Usually when people here talk about being a PD they're talking about the former, because I think most private attorneys doing appointments take private clients as well.

Keep in mind that private attorneys who do appointments are very frequently solos (or in very small firms of 2-3 attorneys) and so out of the theoretical $60k you have to cover overhead, office staff, benefits, vacation, etc. You'd also be taxed as an independent contractor. I don't know much about firms specializing in this, but you get appointed as an individual, not as a firm.

Edit: I haven't watched Better Call Saul, but I don't think the post above is right. No one doing public defense is getting checks from clients. And I don't think PDs can have a practice on the side (though if you have a private practice appointments can be part of that).

Ah, I wasn't thinking about that. The extra taxes for independent contractors on income, plus the full SS contribution, really chips away at that kind of income.

At any rate, thanks for the input guys.