When people say they want "big law" what does that entail? Forum

[lillawyer2]

Do people usually care what facet of law they go into or as long as it is big law they don't care? What are common specialty areas of big law? I'm assuming that most big law firms have multiple specialties. Do some specialty facets of big law, on average, pay less than others?

Random esq question: Are all the best law firms to work for necessarily "big law"?

Any way ....I ask, because I see a lot of fonts say they want big law, but not many really, in my experience, seems to go into detail: I want to attend big law in intellectual patents, tax..etc. I guess its unnecessary added details.

For instance, I'm interested in tax law, so I looked up the "best" rank tax firm in nyc and it happens to be (Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP), but instead of looking to go into the best firm for my specialty, should I just focus on getting a job at the best law firm in my area?

[thesealocust]

The exact lines around "big law" are fuzzy, but generally speaking they are jobs that:

(1) Hire summer associates and then give large percentages of their SA class full-time offers

(2) Pay for bar and sometimes relocation expenses

(3) Pay market starting salaries ($160k in major U.S. cities)

Now, that's what matters from the perspective of the student. The actual work is broadly split into two categories: litigation and transactional. There are regulatory practices (especially in D.C.), tax controversy and tax support for transactional practices, real estate groups, trusts & estates groups, etc. - but the bread and butter is litigation and transactional. The big firms get big clients with big cases and big deals, and so pay the people the hire a lot of money.

For whatever reason, the model as it exists doesn't require students to have put much thought into private practice at all - firms hire based on prestige of your law school, first year grades, and an interview that's largely for cultural/fit purposes. For that reason there's little incentive for people to care deeply about what facet of law they want to go into, at least until they're weighing offers or summering at a firm and considering what practice group to enter after graduation.

Big law firms are fairly unique in two regards: First, the salary they pay new law graduates, and second, the formal pipeline they use for hiring. Every year there are around 40,000 law graduates but only around 5,000 big firm jobs, so it's hardly the path everyone takes: but it's a very lucrative path of least resistance for those that have the option. Furthermore, a lot of cool jobs in government and the private sector don't hire fresh law grads, they only hire refuges from big firms (which have very high turnover rates - half the class being gone by their third year at the firm is a common occurrence).

Anyway, on the ground the differences between practice groups aren't huge. On top of the substance your doing the generally applicable task of lawyering: learning rules and regulations, advising on them, marshalling transactions, gathering facts, writing briefs and memos, etc. That's not to say there's no difference or that it's wrong to have preferences, but it goes a long way towards explaining why it's not a crisis that many people just generally want a big law job and don't have highly specific preferences afterward. If you do though that's great, and it can be a boon in hiring if you can articulate precisely why you want to work in a particular practice.

[deant286]

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[totesTheGoat]

Do people usually care what facet of law they go into or as long as it is big law they don't care?

Depends. If you're coming into law school directly from UG with a History or Psychology or Philosophy degree, it is going to be difficult for you to specialize, because a lot of specialties are going to be populated by the engineers, finance/business, and hard science folks. However, IMO, it's imperative that you specialize, and I think you should probably think about the types of law you're interested in before you go to school. Why? Because a student with a resume that points directly at a practice group looks better than a student with no direction and the same GPA. Being that law students, and big law focused law students, are super competitive, you need every edge that you have.

What are common specialty areas of big law?I'm assuming that most big law firms have multiple specialties. Do some specialty facets of big law, on average, pay less than others?

Many are general practice firms, focusing on various aspects of corporate law. There are probably a few that focus on criminal or other individual law, but the vast majority are corporate law firms. Generally big law pays based on experience, not on merits. Your specialty will be reflected in bonuses and the chances of making partner.

Random esq question: Are all the best law firms to work for necessarily "big law"?

Depends. What are you looking for in a firm? Prestige? (the answer is yes to whether they're the most prestigious) Work/life balance? (the answer is they're some of the worst in that area). Money? (depends on the field).

Any way ....I ask, because I see a lot of fonts say they want big law, but not many really, in my experience, seems to go into detail: I want to attend big law in intellectual patents, tax..etc. I guess its unnecessary added details.

Most people are just happy to have a job. If it's a job in an area of law they hate, maybe they'll try to transfer to another practice group, but they just want the biglaw sticker on their resume.

[lillawyer2]

The exact lines around "big law" are fuzzy, but generally speaking they are jobs that:

(1) Hire summer associates and then give large percentages of their SA class full-time offers

(2) Pay for bar and sometimes relocation expenses

(3) Pay market starting salaries ($160k in major U.S. cities)

Now, that's what matters from the perspective of the student. The actual work is broadly split into two categories: litigation and transactional. There are regulatory practices (especially in D.C.), tax controversy and tax support for transactional practices, real estate groups, trusts & estates groups, etc. - but the bread and butter is litigation and transactional. The big firms get big clients with big cases and big deals, and so pay the people the hire a lot of money.

For whatever reason, the model as it exists doesn't require students to have put much thought into private practice at all - firms hire based on prestige of your law school, first year grades, and an interview that's largely for cultural/fit purposes. For that reason there's little incentive for people to care deeply about what facet of law they want to go into, at least until they're weighing offers or summering at a firm and considering what practice group to enter after graduation.

Big law firms are fairly unique in two regards: First, the salary they pay new law graduates, and second, the formal pipeline they use for hiring. Every year there are around 40,000 law graduates but only around 5,000 big firm jobs, so it's hardly the path everyone takes: but it's a very lucrative path of least resistance for those that have the option. Furthermore, a lot of cool jobs in government and the private sector don't hire fresh law grads, they only hire refuges from big firms (which have very high turnover rates - half the class being gone by their third year at the firm is a common occurrence).

Anyway, on the ground the differences between practice groups aren't huge. On top of the substance your doing the generally applicable task of lawyering: learning rules and regulations, advising on them, marshalling transactions, gathering facts, writing briefs and memos, etc. That's not to say there's no difference or that it's wrong to have preferences, but it goes a long way towards explaining why it's not a crisis that many people just generally want a big law job and don't have highly specific preferences afterward. If you do though that's great, and it can be a boon in hiring if you can articulate precisely why you want to work in a particular practice.

Thank YOU!!!

[lillawyer2]

Do people usually care what facet of law they go into or as long as it is big law they don't care?

Depends. If you're coming into law school directly from UG with a History or Psychology or Philosophy degree, it is going to be difficult for you to specialize, because a lot of specialties are going to be populated by the engineers, finance/business, and hard science folks. However, IMO, it's imperative that you specialize, and I think you should probably think about the types of law you're interested in before you go to school. Why? Because a student with a resume that points directly at a practice group looks better than a student with no direction and the same GPA. Being that law students, and big law focused law students, are super competitive, you need every edge that you have.

So should I work toward finding a job in the specialty I desire? I'm currently 1 year out of undergrad. I work as an assistant to the CFO.

What are common specialty areas of big law?I'm assuming that most big law firms have multiple specialties. Do some specialty facets of big law, on average, pay less than others?

Many are general practice firms, focusing on various aspects of corporate law. There are probably a few that focus on criminal or other individual law, but the vast majority are corporate law firms. Generally big law pays based on experience, not on merits. Your specialty will be reflected in bonuses and the chances of making partner.

Random esq question: Are all the best law firms to work for necessarily "big law"?

Depends. What are you looking for in a firm? Prestige? (the answer is yes to whether they're the most prestigious) Work/life balance? (the answer is they're some of the worst in that area). Money? (depends on the field).

Any way ....I ask, because I see a lot of fonts say they want big law, but not many really, in my experience, seems to go into detail: I want to attend big law in intellectual patents, tax..etc. I guess its unnecessary added details.

Most people are just happy to have a job. If it's a job in an area of law they hate, maybe they'll try to transfer to another practice group, but they just want the biglaw sticker on their resume.

[totesTheGoat]

So should I work toward finding a job in the specialty I desire? I'm currently 1 year out of undergrad. I work as an assistant to the CFO.

That's really great if you can find it, but it's generally hard to do. I did exactly that (in patents) and would never turn back.

It's even harder if you don't exactly know what you want to do. You're going to very quickly pigeonhole yourself if you find a legal job in a certain specialty. If you know that you're going into franchising law and you won't change your mind, get work experience in franchising law. If you're interested in M&A law, franchising law, white collar crime, and business formation, you're going to be harming your chances in the other areas by getting a ton of franchising law experience. (I believe all of those specialties have elements of tax law... if not, I apologize for the crappy examples)

However, if you're just doing summer associateships, the chances are that you won't have to make a choice. The big firms know that you may not be super focused in one area in law school, and many of them have programs that expose you to many areas of corporate law or many areas of tax law or many areas of criminal law, etc.

[dood]

means you get paid same money as your peers in the % corresponding to the top salaries of your class. and you have a slutty secretary. naw just kidding, you'll get a nice old lady and share her with 3 other first years, but a secretary nonetheless.

[ghostoftraynor]

There are boutique firms that are as if not more prestigious than "big law" and pay the same or at least close to the same amount of money.

[dood]

There are boutique firms that are as if not more prestigious than "big law" and pay the same or at least close to the same amount of money.

n00b alert.

1. wtf "prestige"? This is law.

2. the top boutique firms pay way more than market dogg.

[zot1]

Models and bottles.

[HxAxDxExS]

There are boutique firms that are as if not more prestigious than "big law" and pay the same or at least close to the same amount of money.

n00b alert.

1. wtf "prestige"? This is law.

2. the top boutique firms pay way more than market dogg.

haa