Preparing for Class Forum

[theycallmefoes]

So, it seems the general consensus is that we should not over-prepare for class and not bother with briefing cases. I've heard repeatedly that students should not worry if they cannot answer a question and that there's no real shame in taking a pass when cold-called.

However, for my 1L property class this fall, if a student is unprepared to answer a question, then he/she will have to write a 6-page paper on the assigned reading for that day. This is worrisome, in part because I'm not sure I trust myself to be able to retain the information just from simply reading the cases. So I have a few questions:

1a. Should I go ahead and brief cases for that class only?
b.For those of you who do brief cases, what do you include in your briefs?
c. Are there any decent guides to briefing cases that you found particularly helpful?

2a. For those of you who are adamantly against briefing, how do you prepare for class?
b. Do you take any notes on the cases at all, and, if so, what do you include?
c. If you do not take notes, do you simply read the cases, or do you also use supplements and/or canned briefs? If so, which ones?

I'm feeling quite intimidated right now, so any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks!

[kalvano]

What terrible school is this?

[sundontshine]

For a class like that, I'd do something similar to how I "briefed" cases 1L year.

Had headings for Facts, Rules, Issue, Holding, Reasons. For facts I had about 5-10 short bullet points about what happened, which will be helpful when your professor asks what happened in the case. Rules would be any important looking rules that the case mentions as already being law or that the case makes law. Issue is what they were trying to decide ("Is X Y when Z? "). Holding is a 1-2 sentence description of the result, and wrong the issue question. And Reasons is anything the judge through out as being relevant to his decision (helpful for if the professor asks if it would have come out differently if a fact changed ("No, the judge said it was important to his holding in this case that the dog was brown, if the dog was purple that would change things).

Moved away from this 2L and 3L because I got lazy, but this was helpful for cold calls and very helpful for preparing for exams, especially the Rules and Reasons parts. And it really only takes an extra 5-10 min per case while you're reading.

[BVest]

2a. For those of you who are adamantly against briefing, how do you prepare for class?
b. Do you take any notes on the cases at all, and, if so, what do you include?
c. If you do not take notes, do you simply read the cases, or do you also use supplements and/or canned briefs? If so, which ones?

I used two strategies:

1) Different highlighter colors for Issue, Proc Posture, Facts, Arguments, Holding/Rule
2) Commercial (some classes) or online (especially con law) briefs.

[Mack.Hambleton]

OP on the first day

[randomstudent]

So, it seems the general consensus is that we should not over-prepare for class and not bother with briefing cases. I've heard repeatedly that students should not worry if they cannot answer a question and that there's no real shame in taking a pass when cold-called.

However, for my 1L property class this fall, if a student is unprepared to answer a question, then he/she will have to write a 6-page paper on the assigned reading for that day. This is worrisome, in part because I'm not sure I trust myself to be able to retain the information just from simply reading the cases. So I have a few questions:

1a. Should I go ahead and brief cases for that class only?
b.For those of you who do brief cases, what do you include in your briefs?
c. Are there any decent guides to briefing cases that you found particularly helpful?

2a. For those of you who are adamantly against briefing, how do you prepare for class?
b. Do you take any notes on the cases at all, and, if so, what do you include?
c. If you do not take notes, do you simply read the cases, or do you also use supplements and/or canned briefs? If so, which ones?

I'm feeling quite intimidated right now, so any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks!

First of all, I don't think there's any harm in briefing cases. Just don't get hung up on trying to turn your case briefs into an art form and remember that consolidating the information you learn into some sort of outline after class is one of the things that many students find most helpful for the actual exam.

Second, here are a few different ways you can prepare for your Property class. You can: (1) write up a full brief of every case; (2) swap briefs with a friend if you haven't briefed every case or just want "extra insurance" in case you are called on, (3) make some notes on every case you read, even if it's just a few sentences rather than a full brief, (3) "book brief," which is to say that you just mark the issue, facts, rule, analysis, and conclusion of every case in your casebook rather than writing a separate case brief, and/or (4) find a canned brief of the case before class. Can you get by without doing any of these things before each Property class? Sure. There were days when I went to class without having taken any notes on the cases I'd read. If the professor happened to call on me that day, I'd just try to wing it and answer his questions as best as I could from memory. But I don't know that that was the best idea for me. For you? Maybe. I'm not sure how you learn best.

Finally, remember that everyone learns differently. The great thing about law school is that most professors expect you to be responsible for your own learning. If the way you learn is different from everyone else, don't worry about it. If you find out that you learn best by ignoring everything I wrote above, forget everything I wrote above. Some people like to listen to commercial lectures. Some people like to outline. Some people like to study alone. Some people like to discuss things with their friends. Just find out what works for you and focus on that.

[sublime]

..

[notedgarfigaro]

Aren't you going to WUSTL?

Unless something has changed since last year, that would be new.

Is it Konig? It sounds like Konig.

ETA: Nvm, I see the prof you have. I didn't have him, but I never heard of anything like that either.

Did you hear it directly from the prof in an email or whatever? Because if not, it is probably an upperclassman fucking with you.

No, it's SOP, but the bar for "being prepared" is so low I can't imagine anyone actually having to to write the paper. OP, Mandelker's class will be the least stressful 1L class you take unless you get Magarian for Con Law. Yes, it will be boring, the casebook is awful, and the class bears little resemblance to an actual property class, but it's not a stressful class in the vein of Tamanaha.

[theycallmefoes]

What terrible school is this?

WUSTL

Had headings for Facts, Rules, Issue, Holding, Reasons. For facts I had about 5-10 short bullet points about what happened, which will be helpful when your professor asks what happened in the case. Rules would be any important looking rules that the case mentions as already being law or that the case makes law. Issue is what they were trying to decide ("Is X Y when Z? "). Holding is a 1-2 sentence description of the result, and wrong the issue question. And Reasons is anything the judge through out as being relevant to his decision (helpful for if the professor asks if it would have come out differently if a fact changed ("No, the judge said it was important to his holding in this case that the dog was brown, if the dog was purple that would change things).

Thanks for the thorough answer - I'm thinking I'll probably brief cases like this but try to keep it as concise as possible.

1) Different highlighter colors for Issue, Proc Posture, Facts, Arguments, Holding/Rule

I may try this later in the semester.

2) Commercial (some classes) or online (especially con law) briefs.

Any particular sources you recommend?

[theycallmefoes]

OP on the first day

#Accurate.

Randomstudent - Solid advice. Thanks.

Aren't you going to WUSTL?

Yep.

Did you hear it directly from the prof in an email or whatever? Because if not, it is probably an upperclassman fucking with you.

Nah, it's in the syllabus.

No, it's SOP, but the bar for "being prepared" is so low I can't imagine anyone actually having to to write the paper.

Well, that's a relief. Thanks.

OP, Mandelker's class will be the least stressful 1L class you take unless you get Magarian for Con Law. Yes, it will be boring, the casebook is awful, and the class bears little resemblance to an actual property class, but it's not a stressful class in the vein of Tamanaha.

Again, definitely reassuring. However, you mentioned before that his grades are "semi-random" - what makes you say that? Also, what do you think of the new 8-hour take-home format for the final (the rest is the same - 5 questions, 300 words each)? As I mentioned on the other thread, with that much time, I feel like if I'm well-prepared and organized, I should be able to perfect the shit out of it. Will we have sufficient practice materials available?

Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread so far - I really appreciate the advice!

[sublime]

..

[theycallmefoes]

Mandys grades have the reputation of being essentially random at best, at worst inversely related to your other grades

I didn't have him, but that's his rep.

Ugh. That's somewhat terrifying. So there's not even a semblance of a consensus on how to prep for his exam? You may not know this, but does he provide students with prior exams and keys?

[BVest]

2) Commercial (some classes) or online (especially con law) briefs.

Any particular sources you recommend?

Commercial: Something keyed to your casebook, that way you have the cases all together and in order.

Online: Just google "Palsgraf v. LIRR brief" and take whatever comes up.

[#NotACop]

I have something similiar with my civ pro class, we're allowed two incompetant answers per semester and after that your grade starts dropping a notch.

[kcdc1]

Don't be lazy. Just brief the cases -- you're only in lecture like 3 hours a day.

[theycallmefoes]

2) Commercial (some classes) or online (especially con law) briefs.

Any particular sources you recommend?

Commercial: Something keyed to your casebook, that way you have the cases all together and in order.

Online: Just google "Palsgraf v. LIRR brief" and take whatever comes up.

Anyone have opinions on Legalines vs. Casenote Legal Briefs vs. High Court Case Summaries?

[pancakes3]

I'm not understanding the "don't brief cases" advice. Is it just to save time or what? You still have to read the thing right? What's another 5 minutes jotting down notes about the pertinent facts?

[Tiago Splitter]

I'm not understanding the "don't brief cases" advice. Is it just to save time or what? You still have to read the thing right? What's another 5 minutes jotting down notes about the pertinent facts?

People are arguing against formal briefing more than anything. Even as a 2L I typically wrote a few notes down when I read cases. As a 1L that's the least you should be doing.

[notedgarfigaro]

Again, definitely reassuring. However, you mentioned before that his grades are "semi-random" - what makes you say that? Also, what do you think of the new 8-hour take-home format for the final (the rest is the same - 5 questions, 300 words each)? As I mentioned on the other thread, with that much time, I feel like if I'm well-prepared and organized, I should be able to perfect the shit out of it. Will we have sufficient practice materials available?

Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread so far - I really appreciate the advice!

If he's sticking to 300/question, the 8 hour takehome is super overkill- I walked out of the exam after 90 minutes and I wasn't the first to leave. You're not going to "perfect the shit out of it" anymore than any other person- it's not that type of exam. It's almost a binary checklist- did you get the issue correct, did you cite the correct case (and pg number), did you refrain from addressing non issues? The one question I got points knocked off on was due to my adding extra stuff b/c I answered the question cold in 150 words, and being a nervous 1L I added 150 more words of stuff on another issue that wasn't asked about.

As for prep, he gave us the previous exam and went over it in class with us (we were his second property class, so that was the only exam he had).

[pancakes3]

I'm not understanding the "don't brief cases" advice. Is it just to save time or what? You still have to read the thing right? What's another 5 minutes jotting down notes about the pertinent facts?

People are arguing against formal briefing more than anything. Even as a 2L I typically wrote a few notes down when I read cases. As a 1L that's the least you should be doing.

2 weeks in and I completely get it now.

[jk148706]

.

[chuckbass]

Obviously you should do more than just read, but reading the cases alone should provide you with enough information to show that you read the case if you're called on. Beyond that you're not going to be penalized for answering something incorrectly, so just chill and go grab a drink at 3.

[TheSpanishMain]

I haven't heard anything about my professors docking grades or imposing penalty papers for fucking up a cold call, but I have to believe the standard for "being prepared" or "giving a competent answer" is pretty low. I'm sure as long as you can say something halfway coherent about the facts of the case, you're probably fine. Not saying don't prepare, obviously, just saying I'd be surprised if he actually makes you write a 6 page paper.