Question for anyone who is or has worked in legal field... Forum

[Michele11]

... does anyone actually have a positive story?

Everything I have seen on here makes it sound like everyone hates their lives.

Yet, droves of people continue to take the LSAT and apply to law school.

This does not make sense to me. Surely it must be working out for SOMEONE? Otherwise, why do people continue to apply?

I am just in the early process of studying for the LSAT, primarily because I actually find it very interesting and enjoy the time I spend studying for it. I am wondering if anyone has anything other to share other than a warning that I should abandon this idea altogether?

Many thanks for any and all input!

As a side note: I do not want to get into the details of my background, nor sound like I am bragging, but I graduated in the top 2% of my undergrad class with a Finance degree and have been working on Wall Street for 2+ years. I think, depending heavily on my ultimate LSAT score obviously, it is not out of the question that I could get into a top 6 school. I only mention that in case anyone thinks it would make a significant difference in how miserable my life would be should I actually go through with this.

[Teoeo]

I work in government doing labor law and I love my job. ^_^

[094320]

..

[Lexaholik]

Work on the plaintiff's side and love my job. Most people here are probably on the high achieving biglaw associate track which is full of misery and despair. Unsurprising that a job that provides you with money, status, and low risk impose heavy costs in other areas of your life.

[randomstudent]

I worked two years as a paralegal at a small public interest firm. I loved my job so much, I went to work on my birthday even though I had the day off because I preferred to spend the day at work with my coworkers than by myself at home. Honestly, though, I think that sort of experience is an anomaly, even in the public interest sector.

[mw115]

Most experiences here are from associates at big firms in major markets - a special group that has a terrible life.

I enjoyed doing mid law insurance coverage in a secondary southern market, and now really love being a prosecutor.

[hurldes]

Also, a person who hates his job is more likely to complain about it on the internet. A person who is content with his job has no reason to tell the whole internet how awesome his job is. But if he hates his job, online forums are a good place to gripe.

[jbagelboy]

Actually, the "droves" have shrunk substantially: 37% less people applied to law school this past year than in 2010.

What are your impressions of your work in finance? If you like the lifestyle and the hours, dislike excel, access & data entry, but want to write, read & review documents more, then work at a large law firm might be good for you.

[Tiago Splitter]

Everything I have seen on here makes it sound like everyone hates their lives.

Yet, droves of people continue to take the LSAT and apply to law school.

It's weird how you act like these things couldn't possibly go together.

[yadiermolina]

[quote="Michele11"]... does anyone actually have a positive story?

Everything I have seen on here makes it sound like everyone hates their lives.

Yet, droves of people continue to take the LSAT and apply to law school.

This does not make sense to me. Surely it must be working out for SOMEONE? Otherwise, why do people continue to apply?

I am just in the early process of studying for the LSAT, primarily because I actually find it very interesting and enjoy the time I spend studying for it. I am wondering if anyone has anything other to share other than a warning that I should abandon this idea altogether?

Many thanks for any and all input!

And thus my quarter life crisis. Thanks TLS! (But actually, such a crisis is needed when making such a decision). Also, I'm wondering about OPs reasons for (possibly) leaving finance. I'm always interested to hear why people leave solid careers to enter a profession in crisis.

[yomisterd]

Pretty sure there is a thread on here about loving/liking law school and being a lawyer. Also the thread on what a typical day looks like might give you a peek at lives you would like to live.

[twenty]

I am thoroughly irritated by the complainers who have nothing better to do than whine about how much their life sucks. 1L is apparently the worst thing in the whole world because it's so stressful. 2L is the worst thing in the world because it's so busy. 3L is the worst thing in the world because it's so boring. Legal profession is the worst thing in the world because it's basically a combination of all three things.

In any other profession other than medicine, any reasonable person would grab said-complainer by the tie and 1) ask them why the fuck they were still in X, 2) tell them to get the fuck out of X, or 3) tell them to shut the fuck up about X. Law and medicine kids get this special dispensation to bitch because "nah sunk cost bro" and "nah debt load bro" are reasonable objections for continued-whining.

Like, did you not think that three years was a long time? Did you not think that 250k was a lot of money? Do you think that 2008 was just uniquely a bad year for you and no one else? I mean Jesus, the 3LOL thread turned into a circle-jerk on who could do the least amount of work.

My charge to you is if you want to do law as a profession, understand, and I mean fully understand what you're getting yourself into. And then once you start, don't be a bitch.

[Michele11]

Thank you all for the feedback!

Jbagelboy, you actually hit my impression of finance right on the head. I am looking to read, write, and review documents much more and move away from number crunching.

Yadiermolina, this is kind of why I didn't want to mention my background and only provided the details in case they would be helpful in answering my question. But to address your wondering about my wanting to leave finance, law school is not a new idea that popped up in my head during my quarter life crisis. I have been considering it since my sophomore year as an undergrad. I put it on hold because I was thinking short term. I didn't want to continue my education at all when I graduated because I wanted to go to work and start making as much money as possible as soon as possible. It was a short sighted decision that landed me on a career track that I knew I would hate but figured "money will make up for it."

It doesn't.

And there actually isn't even that much money because finance is actually "a profession in crisis" as well. 2008 hit the financial market extremely hard and job prospects are still not where they used to be.

[84651846190]

I am thoroughly irritated by the complainers who have nothing better to do than whine about how much their life sucks. 1L is apparently the worst thing in the whole world because it's so stressful. 2L is the worst thing in the world because it's so busy. 3L is the worst thing in the world because it's so boring. Legal profession is the worst thing in the world because it's basically a combination of all three things.

In any other profession other than medicine, any reasonable person would grab said-complainer by the tie and 1) ask them why the fuck they were still in X, 2) tell them to get the fuck out of X, or 3) tell them to shut the fuck up about X. Law and medicine kids get this special dispensation to bitch because "nah sunk cost bro" and "nah debt load bro" are reasonable objections for continued-whining.

Like, did you not think that three years was a long time? Did you not think that 250k was a lot of money? Do you think that 2008 was just uniquely a bad year for you and no one else? I mean Jesus, the 3LOL thread turned into a circle-jerk on who could do the least amount of work.

My charge to you is if you want to do law as a profession, understand, and I mean fully understand what you're getting yourself into. And then once you start, don't be a bitch.

It's easy to say this when you haven't practice law yet.

[Cogburn87]

I am thoroughly irritated by the complainers who have nothing better to do than whine about how much their life sucks. 1L is apparently the worst thing in the whole world because it's so stressful. 2L is the worst thing in the world because it's so busy. 3L is the worst thing in the world because it's so boring. Legal profession is the worst thing in the world because it's basically a combination of all three things.

In any other profession other than medicine, any reasonable person would grab said-complainer by the tie and 1) ask them why the fuck they were still in X, 2) tell them to get the fuck out of X, or 3) tell them to shut the fuck up about X. Law and medicine kids get this special dispensation to bitch because "nah sunk cost bro" and "nah debt load bro" are reasonable objections for continued-whining.

Like, did you not think that three years was a long time? Did you not think that 250k was a lot of money? Do you think that 2008 was just uniquely a bad year for you and no one else? I mean Jesus, the 3LOL thread turned into a circle-jerk on who could do the least amount of work.

My charge to you is if you want to do law as a profession, understand, and I mean fully understand what you're getting yourself into. And then once you start, don't be a bitch.

lol

[twenty]

It's easy to say this when you haven't practice law yet.

I get that it's not the oodles of fun everyone's imaginations thought it would be, and I'm not disparaging against legitimately helpful thoughts from current students/lawyers. At one point, I was hoping to get a 155 and go to Pepperdine... obviously that idea has changed quite a bit thanks to TLS.

Is it really so horribly unfair of me to say "if you don't like being a biglaw associate, then quit and eat the tax bomb in 25 years"? This isn't let-them-eat-cake; it's completely reasonable in any other profession to tell someone who's whining to STFU or quit. I don't see why law is any different.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It's easy to say this when you haven't practice law yet.

I get that it's not the oodles of fun everyone's imaginations thought it would be, and I'm not disparaging against legitimately helpful thoughts from current students/lawyers. At one point, I was hoping to get a 155 and go to Pepperdine... obviously that idea has changed quite a bit thanks to TLS.

Is it really so horribly unfair of me to say "if you don't like being a biglaw associate, then quit and eat the tax bomb in 25 years"? This isn't let-them-eat-cake; it's completely reasonable in any other profession to tell someone who's whining to STFU or quit. I don't see why law is any different.

Change is hard, bro. It's awfully hard to leave a well-paying job, even one you hate, for the unknown, when you have a lot of debt (or even if you don't). The cognitive dissonance between being at the top of the legal prestige hierarchy and life sucking so hard it tough to cope with, too. And face it, most people don't go into biglaw because they're naturally risk-takers. They may also have some kind of longer-term plan that depends on putting in time at a big firm for a few years. Doesn't mean they can't complain about it.

[ilikebaseball]

Graduates of TTTT law schools were the most happy/satisfied? You think maybe its because the environment was less competitive?

[rpupkin]

I am thoroughly irritated by the complainers who have nothing better to do than whine about how much their life sucks. 1L is apparently the worst thing in the whole world because it's so stressful. 2L is the worst thing in the world because it's so busy. 3L is the worst thing in the world because it's so boring. Legal profession is the worst thing in the world because it's basically a combination of all three things.

In any other profession other than medicine, any reasonable person would grab said-complainer by the tie and 1) ask them why the fuck they were still in X, 2) tell them to get the fuck out of X, or 3) tell them to shut the fuck up about X. Law and medicine kids get this special dispensation to bitch because "nah sunk cost bro" and "nah debt load bro" are reasonable objections for continued-whining.

Like, did you not think that three years was a long time? Did you not think that 250k was a lot of money? Do you think that 2008 was just uniquely a bad year for you and no one else? I mean Jesus, the 3LOL thread turned into a circle-jerk on who could do the least amount of work.

My charge to you is if you want to do law as a profession, understand, and I mean fully understand what you're getting yourself into. And then once you start, don't be a bitch.

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but I will note that many of the veteran megaposters on here (including DF) used to post the same things you just said. And, as you can see, there has been a change of attitude now that many of them are in big law. Don't be surprised if, five years from now, you are—to use your term—a bitch of big law.

[TheSpanishMain]

I am thoroughly irritated by the complainers who have nothing better to do than whine about how much their life sucks. 1L is apparently the worst thing in the whole world because it's so stressful. 2L is the worst thing in the world because it's so busy. 3L is the worst thing in the world because it's so boring. Legal profession is the worst thing in the world because it's basically a combination of all three things.

In any other profession other than medicine, any reasonable person would grab said-complainer by the tie and 1) ask them why the fuck they were still in X, 2) tell them to get the fuck out of X, or 3) tell them to shut the fuck up about X. Law and medicine kids get this special dispensation to bitch because "nah sunk cost bro" and "nah debt load bro" are reasonable objections for continued-whining.

Like, did you not think that three years was a long time? Did you not think that 250k was a lot of money? Do you think that 2008 was just uniquely a bad year for you and no one else? I mean Jesus, the 3LOL thread turned into a circle-jerk on who could do the least amount of work.

My charge to you is if you want to do law as a profession, understand, and I mean fully understand what you're getting yourself into. And then once you start, don't be a bitch.

Keep in mind two things. 1) People bitch to relieve stress, and hyperbole is often employed for comedic effect. You can't take it all at face value. 2) From what I understand, a lot of the posters who are now junior BL associates made all their law school decisions at a time before TLS had a critical mass of posters to tell them how miserable BL is.

But if I can add my own naive OL complaint, I do roll my eyes a bit when people feel the need to one up each other with the doom and gloom hyperbole. Like, "Oh yeah? Bob has a job now? Yeah, but who knows, in five years he might get fired!" It's like, yeah, no shit. A JD is not tenure in some kind of guild where you're guaranteed employment for life. It's not an ironclad promise from the universe that your life will never get fucked up. Of course things could theoretically go to shit later. That's true of every profession.

[A. Nony Mouse]

But if I can add my own naive OL complaint, I do roll my eyes a bit when people feel the need to one up each other with the doom and gloom hyperbole. Like, "Oh yeah? Bob has a job now? Yeah, but who knows, in five years he might get fired!" It's like, yeah, no shit. A JD is not tenure in some kind of guild where you're guaranteed employment for life. It's not an ironclad promise from the universe that your life will never get fucked up. Of course things could theoretically go to shit later. That's true of every profession.

I mean, I get that. But biglaw is also expressly predicated on a model that requires a certain amount of attrition every year. Firms hire entering classes that they know have way more people than can ever make partner, and they hire them every year. That's different from a lot of professions, or even other kinds of legal employers. (I often think sticking around in biglaw is like getting tenure for academics, except the tenure rate is probably higher.) So it's not like people are saying, Welp, I got a job at IBM, but who knows if I'll be here in 5 years. It's more like, I got my 7-year probationary contract, let's see how it goes.

[TheSpanishMain]

I mean, I get that. But biglaw is also expressly predicated on a model that requires a certain amount of attrition every year.

Sure, but don't most people enter Big Law knowing that they're not going to spend their career at the firm? I mean, the percentage of people who make partner is so low that you have to think most people go into it knowing they'll have to job search again at some point.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean, I get that. But biglaw is also expressly predicated on a model that requires a certain amount of attrition every year.

Sure, but don't most people enter Big Law knowing that they're not going to spend their career at the firm? I mean, the percentage of people who make partner is so low that you have to think most people go into it knowing they'll have to job search again at some point.

Yeah, but some actually want to make partner (or think they do), and there's still the fear that you'll get pushed out when they firm wants, not when you want. People like to feel like they control things in their life and biglaw takes that away from you.

[twenty]

Don't be surprised if, five years from now, you are—to use your term—a bitch of big law.

I'm certainly not exempting myself from this.

[yot11]

I mean, I get that. But biglaw is also expressly predicated on a model that requires a certain amount of attrition every year.

I've been talking to a few current/former associates and partners at V50 firms and my impression is that the attrition is not quite all that it's made out to be. If you hit a level of billables that covers your salary and your overhead, there's no real economic reason for the firm to kick you out, since you're making money for the firm. You may have literally zero chance of making partner, but that doesn't mean that you can't stay with the firm of your own accord, provided you can handle the stress of the job.

Obviously all bets are off if there are bigger economic forces in play and your practice area jumps off a cliff. But if your practice area is not going under, and you're making your salary+overhead+some with your billables, then (from what I've been told) there's no real reason for the firm to force you out.

Disclaimer: 0L who knows nothing