what is most important thing to get to be employed? Forum

[asukajjang]

It's a really silly question, but I do like to know about employment.

I'm an international applicant (will be applying for this fall) and would like to know what are the most important factors to be employed.

citizenship? 1L grade? your background? school ranking?

Can anybody tell more details about job hunt?

[Nebby]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

[wingding]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

[asukajjang]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

What if my 1L grades are good, but don't have citizenship, does it matter? I wonder if any firm could sponsor the visa.....

[KD35]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

Nebby made no claim about what is more important. But I think thats flawed thinking that one school is more important than grades. If that were the case, people wouldn't give a shit about grades once they got into a T14 law school.

[ruralaw]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

Ehhhh. maybe easy to argue that you would rather be last at Yale than first at Cooley but that is only the extreme your grades can definitely be more important than school rank. First at Brooklyn could be better than last at Georgetown.

[jbates14]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

This is just flat out wrong.

[rahulg91]

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

Nebby made no claim about what is more important. But I think thats flawed thinking that one school is more important than grades. If that were the case, people wouldn't give a shit about grades once they got into a T14 law school.

Do students at HYS care about grades? Honestly curious.

[KD35]

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

Nebby made no claim about what is more important. But I think thats flawed thinking that one school is more important than grades. If that were the case, people wouldn't give a shit about grades once they got into a T14 law school.

Do students at HYS care about grades? Honestly curious.

Less than at other schools, but if you look around the forums a bit you still see people comparing how many Hs versus Ps people have. And depends on what you want to do after law school as well.

[asukajjang]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

What if my 1L grades are good, but don't have citizenship, does it matter? I wonder if any firm could sponsor the visa.....

So I guess nobody knows about visa sponsorships for foreigners....

[schmooky]

.

[wingding]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

This is just flat out wrong.

The school matters more than the grades, in that a CCN at around median will fare about the same (or better) than a UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy at top 1/3, or a GW/BC/BU/Fordham at top 25%, or a whole bunch of other schools at top 10%
In that sense, the school matters more than the grades, but a top school without good enough grades is still problematic.

Once you're below a particular grade range (and what that range is depends on the school) you're kinda fucked. But the school matters more insofar as your grades can be considerably worse at NYU than at NYLS before you're unemployable

[jbates14]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

This is just flat out wrong.

The school matters more than the grades, in that a CCN at around median will fare about the same (or better) than a UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy at top 1/3, or a GW/BC/BU/Fordham at top 25%, or a whole bunch of other schools at top 10%
In that sense, the school matters more than the grades, but a top school without good enough grades is still problematic.

Once you're below a particular grade range (and what that range is depends on the school) you're kinda fucked. But the school matters more insofar as your grades can be considerably worse at NYU than at NYLS before you're unemployable

I don't disagree with that, but that is not what you said in your original post. There is no way that someone last in their class at NYU will fare better than someone first in their class at GW/BC/BU/Fordham or even Brooklyn/Cardozo or maybe even NYLS(not sure about this one). I think you greatly underestimated the difficulty of being the "best" or even top 5% of a class. Those people also grade onto Law Review and their GPAs make them much more attractive than the median at NYU/Columbia people with no LR, for example. Obviously going to the best school is the goal, but saying the name/ranking of the school is more important than grades is just stupid. While I do agree that going to the best school gives you the most "fuck-up" room.

[Nebby]

Scholarship going on ITT.

MODS, can you move this to legal employment?

[nygrrrl]

Scholarship going on ITT.

MODS, can you move this to legal employment?

It definitely doesn't belong here.
I think I will send it to Ask A Law Student, as schmooky suggested.
Thanks guys.

[Nyclawyer618]

Is top 47% at Penn better then top 23% at Cornell?

[arklaw13]

Having rich parents probably.

[wingding]

um, I think the school far outweighs the grade. Better to be worst student at the best school than best student at the worst school

This is just flat out wrong.

The school matters more than the grades, in that a CCN at around median will fare about the same (or better) than a UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy at top 1/3, or a GW/BC/BU/Fordham at top 25%, or a whole bunch of other schools at top 10%
In that sense, the school matters more than the grades, but a top school without good enough grades is still problematic.

Once you're below a particular grade range (and what that range is depends on the school) you're kinda fucked. But the school matters more insofar as your grades can be considerably worse at NYU than at NYLS before you're unemployable

I don't disagree with that, but that is not what you said in your original post.

then you misread my original post

There is no way that someone last in their class at NYU will fare better than someone first in their class at GW/BC/BU/Fordham or even Brooklyn/Cardozo or maybe even NYLS(not sure about this one).

agreed

I think you greatly underestimated the difficulty of being the "best" or even top 5% of a class. Those people also grade onto Law Review and their GPAs make them much more attractive than the median at NYU/Columbia people with no LR, for example.

no disagreement here, nor was this ever part of anything I discussed

Obviously going to the best school is the goal, but saying the name/ranking of the school is more important than grades is just stupid.

Here I disagree, for the reason stated above. The name/rank matters more than grades, in that equal grades at different schools fare differently. Note that I'm not saying that the school rank is the only thing that matters, just that school rank matters more than grades, which is why top 25% at a middling school is worse off than a median student at a T6

While I do agree that going to the best school gives you the most "fuck-up" room.

[despina]

Visa sponsorship is a complex process, and one reason folks might be hesitant to write about it is that we're not supposed to give legal advice.

If you search the forum for "immigration" or "visas" or "green card," you'll find a couple of recent threads discussing this topic.

The short and very general answer is that it's not at all unusual for firms to sponsor JD's for temporary professional work visas (usually, H-1B). However, most of those work visas have time limits, and there there are many obstacles to permanent residence. If you want to live permanently in the US, going to law school is not a sure bet.

[jbagelboy]

Two most and equally important things:

School rank
1L grades

School rank and 1L grades get you in the door.

basically. very broad strokes;

1) school
2) grades
3) personality/background

I wouldn't say "school rank", but "school" definitely. Depends on market. Person at X% at UT will have a tougher time cracking Seattle than X% at UW, regardless of ranking disparity. Of any market NYC most closely approximates employment odds increasing with "school rank," generally, although don't think 1-2 spots in the us news survey will ever make much difference (with the possible exception of the T14/non-T14 barrier).

Personality can be a larger stumbling block or asset than people give credit for. Even at very top schools, or with very high grades, incredible awkwardness or total lack of professionalism can lead to real struggle with employment search. If you're a minority or bring a very specific asset - like an engineering degree & WE - that can go a long way, often more than grades.

[sublime]

..

[Nebby]

A PhD in hard sciences.

If by PhD you mean "pretty hard dick" then I've totz got this job getting thing down.

[randomstudent]

1. If you go to a good school and get good grades, that should be enough to catch the attention of at least a few firms. Then if you have a good personality and work well with people, that should help you convert your interviews into at least one job offer.

2. As far as the visa issue, some of my international classmates have told me one or more of the following: (1) It is impossible to get some government jobs without a greencard or U.S. citizenship. (2) Many smaller firms will not sponsor international students for a greencard because of the hassle and cost of the petitioning process.

So in some respects, some international students feel like they have to get a job at a big law firm if they want to get a job at all in the U.S. I would hasten to add that I have not researched this issue myself because I am not an international student. But this is what I have heard from some of my friends.

[M458]

1. If you go to a good school and get good grades, that should be enough to catch the attention of at least a few firms. Then if you have a good personality and work well with people, that should help you convert your interviews into at least one job offer.

2. As far as the visa issue, some of my international classmates have told me one or more of the following: (1) It is impossible to get some government jobs without a greencard or U.S. citizenship. (2) Many smaller firms will not sponsor international students for a greencard because of the hassle and cost of the petitioning process.

So in some respects, some international students feel like they have to get a job at a big law firm if they want to get a job at all in the U.S. I would hasten to add that I have not researched this issue myself because I am not an international student. But this is what I have heard from some of my friends.

International student here and I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded. As an international student, it's pretty much big law or bust.

[84651846190]

Generally: make yourself appear as useful as possible.