If you don't get Big Law, then what? Forum

[edwatt]

In before: "shitlaw" (which I understand is the buzzword used around here).

I'm in at BU with about a 50k scholarship (in total). People around here have said it's not enough to justify going. (And it's pretty funny: my family/friends who know nothing about law think I'm crazy/paranoid/pretentious when I repeat this to them.) Anyway, here's Law School Transparency for BU:

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/bu/ABA/2013/

The chances for Big Law aren't great. Not impossible, but just not great.

What I'm interested in finding out, however, is what happens to the people who don't get Big Law. From the data above, it's evident that many of them are employed at small firms or in the government, etc. Some of them are unemployed. A few have clerkships (and that's still good and shouldn't be grouped in the same category as not getting Big Law, right?)

What kind of salary can one expect to make at these smaller firms or in the government? Is 30k-70k realistic? Or a little higher? What should one expect down the road in terms of compensation? Are the hours the same as Big Law?

I'm well aware that "Top 14 or nothing --> Big Law" is the standard piece of advice. But I'm just trying to get a picture of what happens when one is not in that position.

Thanks for your help.

[sighsigh]

Based on the NALP salary distribution for the C/O 2012, mainly 40k - 65k. http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

I think this graph is actually a very good representation of the salaries of the entry legal jobs out there. It represents the salaries of 21k full-time long-term jobs, but only 25k of the C/O 2012 landed full-time long-term legal jobs (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/re ... ?show=2012) There are still at least 4k salaries unaccounted for though, so I would view the graph a bit more pessimistically than as shown.

[John Everyman]

Based on the NALP salary distribution for the C/O 2012, mainly 40k - 65k. http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

I think this graph is actually a very good representation of the salaries of the entry legal jobs out there. It represents the salaries of 21k full-time long-term jobs, but only 25k of the C/O 2012 landed full-time long-term legal jobs (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/re ... ?show=2012) There are still at least 4k salaries unaccounted for though, so I would view the graph a bit more pessimistically than as shown.

LST does have score reports for 2013 on a school by school basis and they are a bit more optimistic than 2012, so don't get too pessimistic. Though, yeah, get that scholarship offer up man. Also, take a look at some of the posts by lawyers working small law. If you can get your debt down, it can be a pretty interesting and fulfilling path for people who genuinely enjoy the practice of law.

[rayiner]

A good small firm that does business litigation might pay $50-75k. Entry-level government jobs can pay $50-60k. These are very good salaries by themselves and these jobs can lead to solid careers. However, they won't make it possible to pay off $240k of debt in any reasonable time frame. Your interest payments alone will come to about $1,500 per month, out of say $4,000 take-home on a $65k salary.

[TheGreatFish]

A good small firm that does business litigation might pay $50-75k.

I would say 50-75k is typical starting salary for any small firm. When I was interviewing for small firm jobs, I never came across a job that offered less than 50k a year.

[OutCold]

A good small firm that does business litigation might pay $50-75k. Entry-level government jobs can pay $50-60k. These are very good salaries by themselves and these jobs can lead to solid careers. However, they won't make it possible to pay off $240k of debt in any reasonable time frame. Your interest payments alone will come to about $1,500 per month, out of say $4,000 take-home on a $65k salary.

100% correct. Full monthly payments (as opposed to the interest only) are going to come out to around 2700-3000 a month on that kind of debt. I have about that much debt and I'm making about that much salary while clerking--impossible to make the full payments on that debt. I would also assume that if you are making around 60k, it won't be in a low COL area either.

[gk101]

IP (specifically patent pros) has a lot more firms that wouldn't be considered biglaw paying high salaries. Even small 10+ attorney shops pay in the range of 100k and generally have great hours. The downside is you are working on patent prosecution and a lot of them are sweatshop-esque

[El Principe]

A good small firm that does business litigation might pay $50-75k. Entry-level government jobs can pay $50-60k. These are very good salaries by themselves and these jobs can lead to solid careers. However, they won't make it possible to pay off $240k of debt in any reasonable time frame. Your interest payments alone will come to about $1,500 per month, out of say $4,000 take-home on a $65k salary.

100% correct. Full monthly payments (as opposed to the interest only) are going to come out to around 2700-3000 a month on that kind of debt. I have about that much debt and I'm making about that much salary while clerking--impossible to make the full payments on that debt. I would also assume that if you are making around 60k, it won't be in a low COL area either.

Texas

[DELG]

I think we need a Texas-Top-Loom-Spools so the Texas people stop giving everyone else false hope

[doing_it_in_a_car]

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 4&t=227510

[El Principe]

I think we need a Texas-Top-Loom-Spools so the Texas people stop giving everyone else false hope

Fair enough

[Crowing]

I'm well aware that "Top 14 or nothing --> Big Law" is the standard piece of advice.

That's not true at all. No sane person is going to recommend T14 sticker over a full ride at a regional. The only time you see "T14 or bust" is when somebody for some strange reason actually wants biglaw and isn't just being forced into it to pay debt.

[alkaseltzer]

IP (specifically patent pros) has a lot more firms that wouldn't be considered biglaw paying high salaries. Even small 10+ attorney shops pay in the range of 100k and generally have great hours. The downside is you are working on patent prosecution and a lot of them are sweatshop-esque

More like 200K depending on my experience if you have EE... assuming you have 1900 billable hours. 100K is for part-time folks.

[thesealocust]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors%27_prison

[BigZuck]

I'm well aware that "Top 14 or nothing --> Big Law" is the standard piece of advice.

That's not true at all. No sane person is going to recommend T14 sticker over a full ride at a regional. The only time you see "T14 or bust" is when somebody for some strange reason actually wants biglaw and isn't just being forced into it to pay debt.

Yeah, it's really weird that people keep saying this over and over. It's like they can't read or something.

The current crop of recent posters in choosing threads are largely very vocally debt averse, and many of the recent grad megaposters have started their campaigning (of course what that campaign is can sometimes be tough to pin down but whatever it is, it certainly isn't pro-"big debt 4 big law.") So where are people getting the "big law or bust or STFU" thing from?

[paayter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors%27_prison

did you even read the article is citing? debtors prison is for people who can not afford to pay court imposed fees...its not based off loans.