Why are PNW firms so concerned about ties? Forum

[SnakySalmon]

I've always heard that places like Portland and Seattle are obsessed with ties, because they're afraid that people will be flight risks, but I've never been able to figure out how that makes sense. If someone is using their OCI bids on a hard to get market like Seattle, isn't that a pretty good sign they don't want to flee to other cities, which are easier to get to begin with?

[PDX4343]

I appreciate your point but I don't think firms see it like that.

Sure you've proven that you are willing to risk not getting a job to make sure that you get enough cracks at getting an offer somewhere in the PNW, but without ties how do they - or you for that matter - really know that once you move to the PNW, you'll actually want to stay? If your entire family lives somewhere across the country and you can't point to something concrete from your past that shows that you have lived there and loved it, then you sort of are a flight risk even if you don't think you would ever want to leave.

Also the PNW market doesn't have a ton of biglaw jobs, but it does have a ton of people applying for what few jobs there are. Why would they take a chance on someone who has never lived in their city, doesn't have a serious SO with ties to the city, and who has most or all of their family somewhere else, when there are probably 5 equally qualified candidates applying for the job who do have significant ties.

Sucks I know, I went to undergrad in Portland and am hoping that will be enough of a tie to get me back, but I'm definitely not counting on it.

(Disclaimer: I am a 0L who obviously has never gone through OCI so take this with a grain of salt.)

[DELG]

I honestly don't know why, but this actually happened to me at OCI.

Me: so, all my family is in the PNW; I was born in [City], OR and graduated there, worked in [City 2], OR, and then also worked in [Eastern City], WA.

Seattle firm: Yeah, I saw [Eastern City], WA, but why would you want to be in SEATTLE??

And he asked in a really aggressive, skeptical tone. I had worked and gone to college and law school outside of the PNW but I was really shocked by how my lack of ties to Seattle specifically were recieved.

[bk1]

How could you prove that you used all your bids on a city?

[DELG]

Also you're probably confusing flight risk fears with being insular.

[thesealocust]

Also you're probably confusing flight risk fears with being insular.

Ding ding ding!

If your city isn't already full of transplants (NYC, DC, etc.) then the odds are good people making hiring decisions will just prefer the home town hero. Ties matter and it's not for a necessarily rational reason you can overcome.

They also aren't dispositive - people get jobs without ties every year, it's just another hurdle.

[DELG]

Also you're probably confusing flight risk fears with being insular.

Ding ding ding!

If your city isn't already full of transplants (NYC, DC, etc.) then the odds are good people making hiring decisions will just prefer the home town hero. Ties matter and it's not for a necessarily rational reason you can overcome.

They also aren't dispositive - people get jobs without ties every year, it's just another hurdle.

Idk man. I bet almost no one gets jobs in Seattle without either PNW ties or really great work experience ties to the practice area.

[rinkrat19]

I honestly don't know why, but this actually happened to me at OCI.

Me: so, all my family is in the PNW; I was born in [City], OR and graduated there, worked in [City 2], OR, and then also worked in [Eastern City], WA.

Seattle firm: Yeah, I saw [Eastern City], WA, but why would you want to be in SEATTLE??

And he asked in a really aggressive, skeptical tone. I had worked and gone to college and law school outside of the PNW but I was really shocked by how my lack of ties to Seattle specifically were recieved.

Similar experience. Born in Seattle area, lived/school/work entire life from kindergarten on in Oregon. Seattle firms look at me like I'm expressing an interest in moving to Zimbabwe when I say I'd be happy living/working in Seattle. Portland firms look at my three years at Northwestern Law like some sort of unimaginable betrayal instead of just going to a much, much better school.

The Portland legal market is DOMINATED by the three Oregon schools to a degree I haven't seen in any other city's firms.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Is insularity a permissible basis of inquiry? It has to be flight risk.

[DELG]

Is insularity a permissible basis of inquiry? It has to be flight risk.

I seriously question that anyone in Seattle thinks people would ever want to leave Seattle. Like who really laterals from Seattle to NYC?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, I really think insularity is just about picking the known quantity, not about flight risk. You pick the hometown kid because it's their hometown and they get it, not really because you think everyone else is going to leave.

[Hipster but Athletic]

That's gotta be illegal. Let's get em

[A. Nony Mouse]

That's gotta be illegal. Let's get em

Why?

[Hipster but Athletic]

Right to travel? National origin? Idk

[mr.hands]

(Uhh no it's not. Those are both Constituional doctrines. There's no state action...)

I've found that a ton of markets are just like this. ATL, Boston, Austin. Basically ties are everything. That's why it's retarded when some 0L wants to go to a TTT across the cohntry that he's never been to

What's market pay in PNW?

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

(Uhh no it's not. Those are both Constituional doctrines. There's no state action...)

I've found that a ton of markets are just like this. ATL, Boston, Austin. Basically ties are everything. That's why it's retarded when some 0L wants to go to a TTT across the cohntry that he's never been to

What's market pay in PNW?

Confusing biglaw hiring with 95% of legal hiring. #localschoolsareatie #perspectivefail #reallydontknowhowtohashtagamdoingright?