Experiences with paying sticker for lower-half of T14? Forum

[Yea All Right]

Hello all, current 0L here. Applied this cycle, got into a T14 and waitlisted at several others. Just wanted to ask if any current students or recent graduates would like to share their experiences with paying sticker for a school in the lower-half of the T14. Do you regret your decision? Do you think a lot of your classmates are doing/ did the same? How is it going in terms of loan payments? Although I don't yet know complete scholarship information or how the waitlists will turn out, I want to do some data-gathering just in case this is the decision I end up facing. My career goal is definitely to work in Biglaw. I would really appreciate hearing any personal experiences, and I am guessing other 0Ls would appreciate it too.

To preempt the people who think YHS (and possibly CCN) are the only schools worth paying sticker for: I'm not asking for your opinion on that issue. And no, retaking is not an option . I just want to gather some perspectives from people who have paid sticker for the other schools.

Thanks!

[BigZuck]

What's your gpa?

[cron1834]

^ profile says 168/3.6.

[09042014]

I've paid 21 thousand dollars towards my student loans since December and I've still got a quarter million dollars in debt.

[OfThriceandTen]

I'm in possibly the best situation one can be in at a lower-t14, excluding family riches that could have saved me from this setup to begin with, and I am petrified of my loans. They give me fairly frequent anxiety/wake me up in cold sweats, anticipating getting no offered or laid off before I can pay off any significant amount. If I had it to do over again, I just wouldn't. This amount of money is obscene, and one of the most surprising things was realizing how many of my classmates are receiving significant aid, either from the school, the army, or their parents. It feels pretty isolating at times.

[Theopliske8711]

I've paid 21 thousand dollars towards my student loans since December and I've still got a quarter million dollars in debt.

God... fuck!

[GeneralFile(s)]

I'm in possibly the best situation one can be in at a lower-t14, excluding family riches that could have saved me from this setup to begin with, and I am petrified of my loans. They give me fairly frequent anxiety/wake me up in cold sweats, anticipating getting no offered or laid off before I can pay off any significant amount. If I had it to do over again, I just wouldn't. This amount of money is obscene, and one of the most surprising things was realizing how many of my classmates are receiving significant aid, either from the school, the army, or their parents. It feels pretty isolating at times.

So even with a biglaw offer, you wish you had not gone to law school? Were you very committed to wanting be a lawyer when you started school? Were you working in a different career before starting school that you wish you had stayed in? Do you think that your fear of your loans is rational now that you have the big law offer?

[Yea All Right]

I've paid 21 thousand dollars towards my student loans since December and I've still got a quarter million dollars in debt.

Is it really difficult to make those payments with your salary? Do you rue the day when you decided to take out that amount of debt? Thanks for sharing.

[Yea All Right]

I'm in possibly the best situation one can be in at a lower-t14, excluding family riches that could have saved me from this setup to begin with, and I am petrified of my loans. They give me fairly frequent anxiety/wake me up in cold sweats, anticipating getting no offered or laid off before I can pay off any significant amount. If I had it to do over again, I just wouldn't. This amount of money is obscene, and one of the most surprising things was realizing how many of my classmates are receiving significant aid, either from the school, the army, or their parents. It feels pretty isolating at times.

Sorry to hear about the stress your loans cause you. Just remember that you are not alone in your situation, keep working hard towards your goals, and know that there are possibilities like loan forgiveness if absolutely needed! Really appreciate the shared insight.

[BentleyLittle]

I'm in possibly the best situation one can be in at a lower-t14, excluding family riches that could have saved me from this setup to begin with, and I am petrified of my loans. They give me fairly frequent anxiety/wake me up in cold sweats, anticipating getting no offered or laid off before I can pay off any significant amount. If I had it to do over again, I just wouldn't. This amount of money is obscene, and one of the most surprising things was realizing how many of my classmates are receiving significant aid, either from the school, the army, or their parents. It feels pretty isolating at times.

Can you describe the situation that could have saved you? Also, would you have not gone to law school at all or would you have taken big money at another school?

[09042014]

I've paid 21 thousand dollars towards my student loans since December and I've still got a quarter million dollars in debt.

Is it really difficult to make those payments with your salary? Do you rue the day when you decided to take out that amount of debt? Thanks for sharing.

If I were single, I wouldn't be able to pay half that. My wife supports us, and literally all my money after tax goes into loans.

Yes

[OfThriceandTen]

I'm in possibly the best situation one can be in at a lower-t14, excluding family riches that could have saved me from this setup to begin with, and I am petrified of my loans. They give me fairly frequent anxiety/wake me up in cold sweats, anticipating getting no offered or laid off before I can pay off any significant amount. If I had it to do over again, I just wouldn't. This amount of money is obscene, and one of the most surprising things was realizing how many of my classmates are receiving significant aid, either from the school, the army, or their parents. It feels pretty isolating at times.

So even with a biglaw offer, you wish you had not gone to law school? Were you very committed to wanting be a lawyer when you started school? Were you working in a different career before starting school that you wish you had stayed in? Do you think that your fear of your loans is rational now that you have the big law offer?

There are two (other, besides the worry of getting no offered/laid off) things that bother me about my loans. The first is that I am sickened that I will become like every other young associate and hate working for a firm and think that the work will take over my life and impede any chances of happiness. But I have some experience with what big law firms do, and that's why I decided to come to law school. I'm excited to one day work on interesting deals. But I know that day won't be in the first few years at a firm, so I'm dreading those.

Largely I wish I had the flexibility to do what I wanted with my career without thinking of the giant 150k pound gorilla on my back. Even assuming you are lucky enough to get to pick and get offers in the career of your choosing, what the debt actually does in this situation is indebt you to whatever career you choose as a 2L, whether it be PI and 10 years of LRAP or biglaw for however long it takes you personally to feed the debt in full. It has nothing to do with whether or not I wanted to be a lawyer before law school (I did, and I knew what that meant generally), or whether I want to be a lawyer now (despite it all, I still do). It's the feeling of having very little control when you thought the offer would cure whatever ailed you.

I don't have the answers for you. I wish I could have gotten a scholarship here. If you can raise your LSAT to be in a better scholarship position, that is by far the best thing you can do for your future self.

[$$$$$$]

The amount of debt isnt worth it. But that isnt just for lower T-14, that is for any law school period. If you think Harvard at 250K is worth it and Penn at 250K isnt, that is plain wrong because even if you succeed at both, you still have a quarter million dollars of debt after you graduate. Think of it this way, instead of putting my 3-4K a month after expenses towards investments, savings, dinners with friends, etc, I am writing a check to the US government and getting nothing in return. The job I have is great, but there are other ways to get six figures without having to take on that much of a burden (like reading a shit ton of books and networking).

[Yea All Right]

So what I'm getting is that if you like freedom and personal control over your life, don't pay sticker. Even a high salary won't get you those things when you have such debt.

[hichvichwoh]

So what I'm getting is that if you like freedom and personal control over your life, don't pay sticker. Even a high salary won't get you those things when you have such debt.

correct. sticker is only a viable option for people who don't have to rely on loans to pay for it

[pcthenls]

Thanks to all of you for contributing. I feel like this is exactly what I needed to see. No matter how AMAZING those lower T-14s that I have been accepted to sound, that number is just a huge terrible stain on any pretty picture admissions paints. Even an awesome LRAP for PI-minded folks like myself makes me feel as if I will have horrible anxiety for years to come and feel guilty for whoever I end up with or for my future children who had to deal with my debt and neurosis.

I have spoken to students at some lower T-14s whose parents are paying. On of the earlier posters brought up a very valid point about how isolating it is to be paying sticker with no help from scholarships or family. I just cannot relate to that experience of going in stress free without a large scholarship.

Anyways. Just venting with my 0L fears. Again, thanks for posting this. I think this needs to be said more often.

[anyriotgirl]

Hi, another 0L who is interested in this topic. Do you wish that you had gone to a strong regional/t-20 (whatever terminology you want to use) with a big scholarship? The choice I'm making right now is between two different lower T-14 at about 30% off tuition or Fordham with $105k. Sometimes it seems silly to me to give up the better chance of employment for the price of a moderately fancy car, but other times I feel like a chump signing up for $150k in debt instead of <$100k. (I could also go to Cardozo for free, but I'm told that would be a bad decision.)

I appreciate the honesty and frankness of everyone ITT so far. <3

[BruceWayne]

Just to piggyback off of the answers to this post: DesertFox's situation is basically as good as it's going to get if you go sticker. He got a big firm job. But there's a good chance you'll end up like me and others I know: sticker debt, top 14 JD, and no salaried job.

Going to any law school at sticker is a bad decision. Going to a non HYS at sticker is an outrageously bad idea.

[cron1834]

Just to piggyback off of the answers to this post: DesertFox's situation is basically as good as it's going to get if you go sticker. He got a big firm job. But there's a good chance you'll end up like me and others I know: sticker debt, top 14 JD, and no salaried job.

Going to any law school at sticker is a bad decision. Going to a non HYS at sticker is an outrageously bad idea.

Without outing or getting too personal, how are you able to handle this?

Thank you, and thanks to others in this thread. I suspect I'm going to be offered sticker at a few T14s, and this is useful. I have legitimately been reconsidering LS over the last few weeks.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

If you have lower half of t14 at sticker you'd have to be out of your mind to go when you can go T30 or T40 for free . Don't be an idiot.

[Otunga]

Thanks for the thread OP. I'm in a similar situation. As it stands, a mid-t14 has accepted me and it's potentially at sticker or with a low/medium scholarship. A June retake (it'd be my third LSAT) could be a good idea for us and others looking at these options.

Occasionally I say to myself that I'm all about biglaw, and other times regional small law work is appealing with a little loan balance. The great thing about a T20/T30 with a big scholarship is if you're high in rank and get biglaw, you're profiting significantly. The bad thing is that you could plausibly have no JD-related job whatsoever. That's the proposition there.

[cron1834]

Thanks for the thread OP. I'm in a similar situation. As it stands, a mid-t14 has accepted me and it's potentially at sticker or with a low/medium scholarship. A June retake (it'd be my third LSAT) could be a good idea for us and others looking at these options.

Occasionally I say to myself that I'm all about biglaw, and other times regional small law work is appealing with a little loan balance. The great thing about a T20/T30 with a big scholarship is if you're high in rank and get biglaw, you're profiting significantly. The bad thing is that you could plausibly have no JD-related job whatsoever. That's the proposition there.

In addition to being numbers twins, we are also concerns twins. T20-30 at full-tuition is definitely a reasonable play, but you're right to point out that the odds of a great outcome (Biglaw + the best of the non-Biglaw jobs) are NO more likely than being straight-up unemployed after 9 months. The calculus isn't easy ...

[bryanjbay12]

If you have lower half of t14 at sticker you'd have to be out of your mind to go when you can go T30 or T40 for free . Don't be an idiot.

Really depends on your goals. If you want Biglaw, I disagree.

[Otunga]

Thanks for the thread OP. I'm in a similar situation. As it stands, a mid-t14 has accepted me and it's potentially at sticker or with a low/medium scholarship. A June retake (it'd be my third LSAT) could be a good idea for us and others looking at these options.

Occasionally I say to myself that I'm all about biglaw, and other times regional small law work is appealing with a little loan balance. The great thing about a T20/T30 with a big scholarship is if you're high in rank and get biglaw, you're profiting significantly. The bad thing is that you could plausibly have no JD-related job whatsoever. That's the proposition there.

In addition to being numbers twins, we are also concerns twins. T20-30 at full-tuition is definitely a reasonable play, but you're right to point out that the odds of a great outcome (Biglaw + the best of the non-Biglaw jobs) are NO more likely than being straight-up unemployed after 9 months. The calculus isn't easy ...

Haha, yeah! Those are the extremes. The median outcome is likely small law work in your region. But then you think about the t14 with sticker or low $ unemployment outcome, and that's shittier than the T20/T30 unemployment outcome. Median outcome for the lower t14? Possibly biglaw, but also potentially low paying small law, and that's awful with a high loan balance.

[Poopface]

Paying sticker at lower t14, feelin good. big law SA this summer, hope it goes well. If not, whatever, i'll go from there. Not too worried about it, I'll figure out how to pay back the debt one way or another. Not going to let it bring me down that's for sure. Knew what I was getting myself into and made an informed decision to attend law school. Biglaw isn't the end all be all for me. Yea I want it, yea it would be the easiest/quickest way to pay off the debt, but if it doesn't happen, so be it, it is what it is. Even if i never work a single day as a lawyer I wouldn't regret the decision i made to attend law school. I've grown a lot as a person in law school, learned a lot, developed valuable skills, i've built a network just from being around my classmates that will stay with me throughout my professional career. I've had the opportunity to learn from some of the best and most accomplished legal professors in the country. I enjoy learning, I like class, oh yea and one thing's for sure i'll be graduating with a world class law degree next summer. At the end of the day, just have to be thankful for the opportunities you do have and work your hardest to take advantage of them. There are far worse things in this world than paying sticker at a lower t14