GW 3L (Class of 2013) Taking Questions Forum

[mi-chan17]

Since I'm apparently unable to focus on law school anyway (3LOL), go for it!

And, of course, any other GW students out there (I know you guys are lurking around in the ether somewhere) are welcome to answer questions as well.

[cahwc12]

Perfect timing!

How would you rate portability of GW degree to the SF bay area with IP focus, assuming patent-bar eligibility? As a follow-up, how do those prospects change for those with EE degrees? On the whole, how are IP students doing at OCI/etc relative to everyone else, and within IP, do you know how much better EE is doing as opposed to non-EE?

I am hopeful for a GW ED full ride, and don't believe I'll be competitive for berkeley or stanford. (3.4, 168, retook and wouldn't be surprised with anything 170-177)

Just how damn high is COL there in your experience? With SO/roommate, is it more manageable? I'd like a decent, safe place to live where I won't get mugged walking home, and my bank account won't get mugged on the first of every month. What options do I have for apartments?

[mi-chan17]

How would you rate portability of GW degree to the SF bay area with IP focus, assuming patent-bar eligibility? As a follow-up, how do those prospects change for those with EE degrees? On the whole, how are IP students doing at OCI/etc relative to everyone else, and within IP, do you know how much better EE is doing as opposed to non-EE?

I am, sadly, underqualified to answer IP-specific questions with any real depth, as I'm not an IP person. That said, based on anecdotal evidence from my friends that Are IP folks, portability back to the west coast has been pretty good. I know people going to good IP shops in the Bay Area and in the PNW. That said, I know more people staying out here on the East Coast than going west, and I'm unsure of how much of that was self-selection and how much was forced on them.

On the whole, again based on anecdotal evidence, I don't know anyone who is patent-bar eligible or who has passed the patent bar and wants IP that does not have something lined up (and that's both 2Ls and 3Ls that I know). Most of them are set to go to market-paying places (either BigLaw or IP boutique), some are doing a PTO thing. The only patent-bar eligible people I know who aren't set are those that decided they don't want to do IP, which puts them back in with the rest of us.

I have no idea how EE is doing as compared to other technical degrees. EE/ME/CS in general seem to be in higher demand (based on what little I know) than Bio/Chem/etc., but within that group I have no idea how it breaks down.

Just how damn high is COL there in your experience? With SO/roommate, is it more manageable? I'd like a decent, safe place to live where I won't get mugged walking home, and my bank account won't get mugged on the first of every month. What options do I have for apartments?

Cost of living is high, I'm not going to lie to you. I pay around $1100/mo. to split a two-bedroom with another law student, and that's in Virginia and a twenty minute walk from metro. In DC itself, depending on where you're at, a studio can run around $1800/mo. It's possible, if you're splitting with someone and depending on what kind of apartment you're splitting, to get yourself down to around $1000/mo. (or even slightly lower) without going anywhere all that dangerous, but it'll depend on what quality of life you want, how long you're willing to commute, and the like.

If you're looking to keep costs down, I'd recommend looking in Virginia (Rosslyn, Court House, Clarendon, Ballston, Crystal City, etc.) or up in a Cleveland Park/Woodley Park area. Columbia Heights is a little cheaper, and is in the midst of gentrifying. NoMA is cheaper and has a bunch of new apartments and just began gentrifying - that said, I worked there within the last couple years and saw gun crimes in broad daylight, so take that for what it's worth. Parts of U St. can be solid. Dupont, Foggy Bottom, and G-town are all going to be more expensive.

[scifiguy]

How's your class been doing in terms of placement into biglaw, fed. clerkships. or other good pub. interest jobs?

Also, what's the social and academic atmosphere like at GW? Tyvm!

[mi-chan17]

How's your class been doing in terms of placement into biglaw, fed. clerkships. or other good pub. interest jobs?

At this point in the year, in terms of biglaw, I think we're probably at around 20-25%. Once we add in the IP folks going to boutiques, it's probably closer to a third. Me and a few others are clerking - probably something around 5% of the class are going to federal courts, and another 5-10% to state courts. The government (both fed and local) is no where done with their hiring yet (with rare exception; I do know one person who got funneled in their government job), so I know people with interviews, but we're still waiting on how those shake out. Once I hear anything about the various honors programs, prosecutor hirings, EJW hirings, etc. I'll try and update this.

I think, on the whole, my class is going to come out slightly better than the class before us and certainly better than 2011. That said, it's hard to gauge that with much real accuracy this early in the game (though it feels like late in the game to me and my classmates). And, in the interest of full disclosure, I currently know just as many people without jobs as people with them, and the people I know who have jobs are people in the top 1/3 or so. Right now, below that, it's a bit of a scramble unless you're IP.*

*These numbers are the just the full-time JD students. A lot of PT students have things lined up (and already work there, which is why they're PT) as do many of the GP LL.Ms.

Also, what's the social and academic atmosphere like at GW? Tyvm!

I think, in terms of atmosphere, GW is great. I've never had a real issue with anyone at the school, and pretty everyone has been pretty chill. Even people who annoy me, gunner-style, in class have been totally fine outside of it. I think we benefit a bit from having such large classes, because the chances of you finding a group of people you actually like are higher when you've got that many more to choose from. No matter what your style is, whether you like going out every night or never, you can find people to hang with. Academic atmosphere-wise, I haven't seen any of the stereotypical Paper Chase-style gunning or anything. It's not crazy studious, though people do take it serious and study of course, and people aren't all that competitive with one another (at least not outwardly). I've never been turned down if I've asked for notes or anything.

[androstan]

IP is doing great at GW.

[KidStuddi]

How would you rate portability of GW degree to the SF bay area with IP focus, assuming patent-bar eligibility? As a follow-up, how do those prospects change for those with EE degrees? On the whole, how are IP students doing at OCI/etc relative to everyone else, and within IP, do you know how much better EE is doing as opposed to non-EE??

GW IP kids do well. But I would caution you against coming here if you are dead set on moving back to market in California. The problem isn't that people there won't know that GW is a good school or that they'll look down on you because you didn't goto a local school, it's that logistically it's a nightmare to try and set up enough interviews where you have a realistic shot at getting a job there. Few SF firms will be flying to D.C. to interview students or participating in GW's OCI, so you're essentially left with contacting them yourself and trying to set up phone screening interviews. This is not an easy task. Legal hiring is very much a numbers game and even the best candidates set up several dozen screeners to ensure they get a few good options. I can pretty safely say that even if you were top of your class at GW, it would be difficult to set up a dozen screeners in SF.

This isn't per se a failing of GW, it's just the reality of how difficult it is to interview for jobs on the other side of the country. It goes both ways. Just ask the Boalt / UCLA / USC kids who try and find jobs in D.C., and D.C.'s legal market is much larger than SF's.
Outside of HYS, very few schools allow you the opportunity to target a market so far away from your school with confidence. Your best bet is to stay local if you want to work in California.

[cahwc12]

How would you rate portability of GW degree to the SF bay area with IP focus, assuming patent-bar eligibility? As a follow-up, how do those prospects change for those with EE degrees? On the whole, how are IP students doing at OCI/etc relative to everyone else, and within IP, do you know how much better EE is doing as opposed to non-EE??

GW IP kids do well. But I would caution you against coming here if you are dead set on moving back to market in California. The problem isn't that people there won't know that GW is a good school or that they'll look down on you because you didn't goto a local school, it's that logistically it's a nightmare to try and set up enough interviews where you have a realistic shot at getting a job there. Few SF firms will be flying to D.C. to interview students or participating in GW's OCI, so you're essentially left with contacting them yourself and trying to set up phone screening interviews. This is not an easy task. Legal hiring is very much a numbers game and even the best candidates set up several dozen screeners to ensure they get a few good options. I can pretty safely say that even if you were top of your class at GW, it would be difficult to set up a dozen screeners in SF.

This isn't per se a failing of GW, it's just the reality of how difficult it is to interview for jobs on the other side of the country. It goes both ways. Just ask the Boalt / UCLA / USC kids who try and find jobs in D.C., and D.C.'s legal market is much larger than SF's.
Outside of HYS, very few schools allow you the opportunity to target a market so far away from your school with confidence. Your best bet is to stay local if you want to work in California.

Thanks this is good to know. I guess my major concern is that outside UCLA, there aren't any california schools that would give me enough scholarship to compensate for the prospects. I probably don't have a shot at Berkeley or Stanford even with an improved LSAT score, and Hastings, Davis, SC, SD would put me significantly in debt. Berkeley/Stanford would too, but I'd feel confident it would be worth it going there.

[sky7]

How would you rate portability of GW degree to the SF bay area with IP focus, assuming patent-bar eligibility? As a follow-up, how do those prospects change for those with EE degrees? On the whole, how are IP students doing at OCI/etc relative to everyone else, and within IP, do you know how much better EE is doing as opposed to non-EE??

GW IP kids do well. But I would caution you against coming here if you are dead set on moving back to market in California. The problem isn't that people there won't know that GW is a good school or that they'll look down on you because you didn't goto a local school, it's that logistically it's a nightmare to try and set up enough interviews where you have a realistic shot at getting a job there. Few SF firms will be flying to D.C. to interview students or participating in GW's OCI, so you're essentially left with contacting them yourself and trying to set up phone screening interviews. This is not an easy task. Legal hiring is very much a numbers game and even the best candidates set up several dozen screeners to ensure they get a few good options. I can pretty safely say that even if you were top of your class at GW, it would be difficult to set up a dozen screeners in SF.

This isn't per se a failing of GW, it's just the reality of how difficult it is to interview for jobs on the other side of the country. It goes both ways. Just ask the Boalt / UCLA / USC kids who try and find jobs in D.C., and D.C.'s legal market is much larger than SF's.
Outside of HYS, very few schools allow you the opportunity to target a market so far away from your school with confidence. Your best bet is to stay local if you want to work in California.

It's called the Loyola PLIP. GW does well, and places all over. I suspect that EE/CS places better in SV than life sciences would.

[androstan]

How would you rate portability of GW degree to the SF bay area with IP focus, assuming patent-bar eligibility? As a follow-up, how do those prospects change for those with EE degrees? On the whole, how are IP students doing at OCI/etc relative to everyone else, and within IP, do you know how much better EE is doing as opposed to non-EE??

GW IP kids do well. But I would caution you against coming here if you are dead set on moving back to market in California. The problem isn't that people there won't know that GW is a good school or that they'll look down on you because you didn't goto a local school, it's that logistically it's a nightmare to try and set up enough interviews where you have a realistic shot at getting a job there. Few SF firms will be flying to D.C. to interview students or participating in GW's OCI, so you're essentially left with contacting them yourself and trying to set up phone screening interviews. This is not an easy task. Legal hiring is very much a numbers game and even the best candidates set up several dozen screeners to ensure they get a few good options. I can pretty safely say that even if you were top of your class at GW, it would be difficult to set up a dozen screeners in SF.

This isn't per se a failing of GW, it's just the reality of how difficult it is to interview for jobs on the other side of the country. It goes both ways. Just ask the Boalt / UCLA / USC kids who try and find jobs in D.C., and D.C.'s legal market is much larger than SF's.
Outside of HYS, very few schools allow you the opportunity to target a market so far away from your school with confidence. Your best bet is to stay local if you want to work in California.

It's called the Loyola PLIP. GW does well, and places all over. I suspect that EE/CS places better in SV than life sciences would.

I have a personal friend, IP (BS in engineering, not saying more for anonymity) who recently got an offer at a V30 in Palo Alto. Good grades, but not tippy top grades. Secondary journal. He landed it through the regionals I think, not through PLIP, but yes GW does well at PLIP as well (lots of people I talk to get offers through it).