Do 1st Year Associates REALLY make that much??? Forum

[jared6180]

I was looking around here and I have read that NYC Big law makes $160k+...
STL Big Law makes $120-140k
KC Big Law makes $100-110k
For some reason I get from my family, including a paralegal, that people really don't make that much as first years. So I guess my question is, Do 1st years REALLY make that much? How do billable hours come into play? What happens if you don't reach your firms minimum yearly?

[Detrox]

Yes, you make that much. Then taxes take a big chunk away. Missing your billables etc. is more likely to get you fired ("encouraged to seek employment elsewhere") then simply cut in pay.

[Ludo!]

Yes first years in biglaw make that much. How have you been on tls for four months and never encountered market salaries before?

[Scottie2Hottie]

what they pay in taxes, some people don't make in a year

[Veyron]

SOME first year associates make that much. The vast majority don't.

[The Valkyrie]

SOME first year associates make that much. The vast majority don't.

Yeah. Some people forget that 95% of lawyers are not, have never been, and will never be in biglaw.

[Ludo!]

SOME first year associates make that much. The vast majority don't.

Yeah. Some people forget that 95% of lawyers are not, have never been, and will never be in biglaw.

OP specified BigLaw, so the answer to his question is still yes

[The Valkyrie]

SOME first year associates make that much. The vast majority don't.

Yeah. Some people forget that 95% of lawyers are not, have never been, and will never be in biglaw.

OP specified BigLaw, so the answer to his question is still yes

Didn't say it wasn't.

[jared6180]

So around 5% of the TOP 5% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw? Is that about accurate?

[jared6180]

where do the other 95% land? what do they make? I have always thought it would be great to get BigLaw, but never truly thought about how rare it was until lately. I guess my goal has just been to recover from my horrific GPA slump from the first two years of college, and do well on the LSAT...knew that I would need to be in a Tier 1 school, and knew I needed to be near the top of my class, but I had not thought about the top 5% really, although my goal is to be #1...like everybody else I suppose... I knew I could potentially make pretty good money, but I have been just doing this because I want to make practicing law my life, I did not realize how stiff the competition was. I learned something today, learned I have got to step it up and have a more competitive mindset I guess.

[Bronck]

where do the other 95% land? what do they make? I have always thought it would be great to get BigLaw, but never truly thought about how rare it was until lately. I guess my goal has just been to recover from my horrific GPA slump from the first two years of college, and do well on the LSAT...knew that I would need to be in a Tier 1 school, and knew I needed to be near the top of my class, but I had not thought about the top 5% really, although my goal is to be #1...like everybody else I suppose... I knew I could potentially make pretty good money, but I have been just doing this because I want to make practicing law my life, I did not realize how stiff the competition was. I learned something today, learned I have got to step it up and have a more competitive mindset I guess.

You have to realize that a large plurality of graduates from law school don't even get legal jobs (i.e., ones that require a JD).

[Indifferent]

I was looking around here and I have read that NYC Big law makes $160k+...
STL Big Law makes $120-140k
KC Big Law makes $100-110k
For some reason I get from my family, including a paralegal, that people really don't make that much as first years. So I guess my question is, Do 1st years REALLY make that much? How do billable hours come into play? What happens if you don't reach your firms minimum yearly?

This has got the be one of the dumbest threads I've seen on TLS.

[Anonymous User]

So around 5% of the TOP 5% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw? Is that about accurate?

No. I'd day if you have a decent enough LSAT to get into a T-14 and hit median, you have a shot at BigLaw. I think more than the top .4% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw in the long run, if you want to extrapolate it that way.

[Detrox]

So around 5% of the TOP 5% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw? Is that about accurate?

No. I'd day if you have a decent enough LSAT to get into a T-14 and hit median, you have a shot at BigLaw. I think more than the top .4% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw in the long run, if you want to extrapolate it that way.

To be fair, 170+ is 99th percentile, so T-14 is generally filled with people in top 95% of LSAT takers; however, I do agree that LSAT is a poor basis to measure this kind of thing. OP should check out NLJ 250 data, add up the amount of new first year hires, and divide that by total class sizes of the total t-14. Even that is generally a terribly rough estimate since many people outside of the T-14 make biglaw, but it's at least some form of a calculable proportion.

[jared6180]

I was looking around here and I have read that NYC Big law makes $160k+...
STL Big Law makes $120-140k
KC Big Law makes $100-110k
For some reason I get from my family, including a paralegal, that people really don't make that much as first years. So I guess my question is, Do 1st years REALLY make that much? How do billable hours come into play? What happens if you don't reach your firms minimum yearly?

This has got the be one of the dumbest threads I've seen on TLS.

I completely agree, but someone had to make the dumbest thread...might as well be me!

[jared6180]

So around 5% of the TOP 5% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw? Is that about accurate?

No. I'd day if you have a decent enough LSAT to get into a T-14 and hit median, you have a shot at BigLaw. I think more than the top .4% of LSAT takers will get BigLaw in the long run, if you want to extrapolate it that way.

I would love to get into T14, Northwestern, Georgetown, Virginia, Cornell make up my list of dream schools. Of those Northwestern would probably be my first choice.

[Sup Kid]

I was looking around here and I have read that NYC Big law makes $160k+...
STL Big Law makes $120-140k
KC Big Law makes $100-110k
For some reason I get from my family, including a paralegal, that people really don't make that much as first years. So I guess my question is, Do 1st years REALLY make that much? How do billable hours come into play? What happens if you don't reach your firms minimum yearly?

This has got the be one of the dumbest threads I've seen on TLS.

I completely agree, but someone had to make the dumbest thread...might as well be me!

Before making "the dumbest thread", you should review forum rules and post the thread in the appropriate forum. See http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=170603

[crazycanuck]

there are a lot easier way to be making 100k by the time you're 30.

[83947368]

.

[jared6180]

GO ME!!!

[dailygrind]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=170603

[clockwerk]

The percentage of attorneys who work or have ever worked in BigLaw is much larger than 5%. 25% of graduates of the class of 2009 reported salaries of $160,000. http://www.nalp.org/startingsalarydistr ... lassof2009. That figure does not take into account unemployed graduates or graduates not reporting salary information, but 5% is still too low. There are also graduates who do not start in BigLaw but later lateral into it (people clerking, people who develop an in-demand specialty, people who work for a boutique that gets acquired by a larger firm, people who start in government, people who get certain LL.M.s). This is not to say that getting a BigLaw associate position is easy, though.

The other thing to consider is that it is possible to find financial success in the law outside of BigLaw. The 2009 median income of all US lawyers was $113,000, meaning that 50% of all lawyers earned at least that much, with the 75th percentile somewhere above $166,400. http://www.bls.gov/oes/2009/may/oes231011.htm and http://volokh.com/2010/07/25/the-bimoda ... awyer-pay/. Sure, starting salaries may not always be in the six figures, but it's possible to work your way up (provided you have the intelligence and work ethic).

[rad lulz]

The percentage of attorneys who work or have ever worked in BigLaw is much larger than 5%. 25% of graduates of the class of 2009 reported salaries of $160,000. http://www.nalp.org/startingsalarydistr ... lassof2009. That figure does not take into account unemployed graduates or graduates not reporting salary information, but 5% is still too low. There are also graduates who do not start in BigLaw but later lateral into it (people clerking, people who develop an in-demand specialty, people who work for a boutique that gets acquired by a larger firm, people who start in government, people who get certain LL.M.s). This is not to say that getting a BigLaw associate position is easy, though.

The other thing to consider is that it is possible to find financial success in the law outside of BigLaw. The 2009 median income of all US lawyers was $113,000, meaning that 50% of all lawyers earned at least that much, with the 75th percentile somewhere above $166,400. http://www.bls.gov/oes/2009/may/oes231011.htm and http://volokh.com/2010/07/25/the-bimoda ... awyer-pay/. Sure, starting salaries may not always be in the six figures, but it's possible to work your way up (provided you have the intelligence and work ethic).

Too bad something like 58% of all grads won't get full-time legal jerbs breh

[The Valkyrie]

The percentage of attorneys who work or have ever worked in BigLaw is much larger than 5%. 25% of graduates of the class of 2009 reported salaries of $160,000. http://www.nalp.org/startingsalarydistr ... lassof2009. That figure does not take into account unemployed graduates or graduates not reporting salary information, but 5% is still too low. There are also graduates who do not start in BigLaw but later lateral into it (people clerking, people who develop an in-demand specialty, people who work for a boutique that gets acquired by a larger firm, people who start in government, people who get certain LL.M.s). This is not to say that getting a BigLaw associate position is easy, though.

The other thing to consider is that it is possible to find financial success in the law outside of BigLaw. The 2009 median income of all US lawyers was $113,000, meaning that 50% of all lawyers earned at least that much, with the 75th percentile somewhere above $166,400. http://www.bls.gov/oes/2009/may/oes231011.htm and http://volokh.com/2010/07/25/the-bimoda ... awyer-pay/. Sure, starting salaries may not always be in the six figures, but it's possible to work your way up (provided you have the intelligence and work ethic).

I don't want to get into an argument, but you're wrong. 50% of lawyers earn at least $113,000? You are obviously getting all of your information from LAW SCHOOLS. I'll just leave it at that. Jesus Christ. The level of delusion among 0Ls and law students is a huge problem.

[rad lulz]

I don't want to get into an argument, but you're wrong. 50% of lawyers earn at least $113,000? You are obviously getting all of your information from LAW SCHOOLS. I'll just leave it at that. Jesus Christ. The level of delusion among 0Ls and law students is a huge problem.

I believe it. But:

1) Lawyers /= law students. Lawyers are the people who already got the jobs. Many lawl students today won't.

2) Many leave the law to do other stuff because they hate it / they can make more money doing something else. People who have shitty lawyer jobs that make less money tend to quit being lawyers.

3) Lawyers surveyed largely graduated in a very different economic environment.