Columbia students taking questions Forum

[mylifeis24]

1L question for you wiser folks. I'm not sure when and how I'm supposed to by using my hornbooks.... I have Glannon for Civ Pro, but it doesn't seem to follow the same format or sequence as the casebook. I know it's a supplement, but should I be reading through this thing in all my spare time? I had a question about a case (Twombly), and I went to look it up in Glannon, and it didn't have anything helpful or any summaries of the case as I was expecting. Not entirely sure what I'm supposed to be doing with it...

[sideroxylon]

1L question for you wiser folks. I'm not sure when and how I'm supposed to by using my hornbooks.... I have Glannon for Civ Pro, but it doesn't seem to follow the same format or sequence as the casebook. I know it's a supplement, but should I be reading through this thing in all my spare time? I had a question about a case (Twombly), and I went to look it up in Glannon, and it didn't have anything helpful or any summaries of the case as I was expecting. Not entirely sure what I'm supposed to be doing with it...

there are different ways to use hornbooks-

I'd generally try to read through the relevant portions of the thing when you're doing stuff

and then read it in the weeks before an exam

others might disagree (and I don't think hornbooks are really necessary) but in my mind they're most useful when you're either going through the practice problems in an E&E (like the Glannon Civ Pro) or when you're just trying to re-read everything in a succinct manner as you outline

I never read through the massive hornbooks (like the Con Law one) but I think it's useful to hear the same information multiple times from multiple sources (like, the professor, hornbooks, old outlines) because then you get a better big picture view of what's going on

I'd be wary of relying on hornbooks for details—profs focus on different things, and sometimes commercial hornbooks are pretty awful. (There's an antitrust one in particular that has like, incorrect holdings for half of the cases)

[girlmonster]

1L question for you wiser folks. I'm not sure when and how I'm supposed to by using my hornbooks.... I have Glannon for Civ Pro, but it doesn't seem to follow the same format or sequence as the casebook. I know it's a supplement, but should I be reading through this thing in all my spare time? I had a question about a case (Twombly), and I went to look it up in Glannon, and it didn't have anything helpful or any summaries of the case as I was expecting. Not entirely sure what I'm supposed to be doing with it...

there are different ways to use hornbooks-

I'd generally try to read through the relevant portions of the thing when you're doing stuff

and then read it in the weeks before an exam

others might disagree (and I don't think hornbooks are really necessary) but in my mind they're most useful when you're either going through the practice problems in an E&E (like the Glannon Civ Pro) or when you're just trying to re-read everything in a succinct manner as you outline

I never read through the massive hornbooks (like the Con Law one) but I think it's useful to hear the same information multiple times from multiple sources (like, the professor, hornbooks, old outlines) because then you get a better big picture view of what's going on

I'd be wary of relying on hornbooks for details—profs focus on different things, and sometimes commercial hornbooks are pretty awful. (There's an antitrust one in particular that has like, incorrect holdings for half of the cases)

Even though I didn't ask the question, I appreciate your well-balanced advice!

I feel like I'm doing law school wrong because I barely have enough time to get through my casebooks. Can't. Stop. Briefing.

ETA: Is it horribly lazy if, for the classes in which I'm not too worried about being cold-called, I read the cases and then copy and paste briefs I found online into my notes? I know there are a lot of "How to Do Well in 1L Year" articles on TLS, but the sheer wealth of information and divergent viewpoints are a little overwhelming.

[girlmonster]

Also, has anyone had Stein for Torts? Apparently he also taught here in Fall of 2012. Feel free to PM.

[sideroxylon]

Even though I didn't ask the question, I appreciate your well-balanced advice!

I feel like I'm doing law school wrong because I barely have enough time to get through my casebooks. Can't. Stop. Briefing.

ETA: Is it horribly lazy if, for the classes in which I'm not too worried about being cold-called, I read the cases and then copy and paste briefs I found online into my notes? I know there are a lot of "How to Do Well in 1L Year" articles on TLS, but the sheer wealth of information and divergent viewpoints are a little overwhelming.

stop briefing now

seriously stop

read for class or whatever, but you don't need much for notes

I know some people swear by their 100 page outlines or whatever, but most of mine were under 20 and I was fine

most importantly, do whatever is stress relief for you, it's way way too early to go crazy

[girlmonster]

stop briefing now

seriously stop

read for class or whatever, but you don't need much for notes

I know some people swear by their 100 page outlines or whatever, but most of mine were under 20 and I was fine

most importantly, do whatever is stress relief for you, it's way way too early to go crazy

I'm bookmarking this to re-read every time I start psyching myself out and the workload seems overwhelming. Really, thank you so much!

[almondjoy]

Also, has anyone had Stein for Torts? Apparently he also taught here in Fall of 2012. Feel free to PM.

Also interested in this

[Banosby]

I had Stein for torts. Not sure if I'm the best person in the world to ask (B+), but feel free to pm if you have any questions.

[almondjoy]

I had Stein for torts. Not sure if I'm the best person in the world to ask (B+), but feel free to pm if you have any questions.

Thanks a bunch! PM'ed

[gatesome]

why Columbia over NYU?

Both are pretty much equally reputable. NYU is in a great location downtown vs. Columbia is way uptown. Plus I've heard Columbia is smaller and the students are more competitive with one another, while NYU students are more social and collaborative. I know NYU specializes in public interest and tax law, what about Columbia?

[sideroxylon]

why Columbia over NYU?

Both are pretty much equally reputable. NYU is in a great location downtown vs. Columbia is way uptown. Plus I've heard Columbia is smaller and the students are more competitive with one another, while NYU students are more social and collaborative. I know NYU specializes in public interest and tax law, what about Columbia?

i'd be amazed if someone here cared enough to try to "sell" you on Columbia which is a pretty Columbia thing to say, maybe

NYU is a good school

I think we're a better school

you should probably go where you get the best aid package, if that's NYU, rad. If that's Columbia radder

I seriously doubt that NYU is "more social and collaborative." Do you know what makes people social and collaborative? Getting jobs. The PI thing is also totally overblown and I don't know how NYU people say it with a straight face. You have great entry points into PI from either school and people go into PI in similar ratios.

[jbagelboy]

why Columbia over NYU?

Both are pretty much equally reputable. NYU is in a great location downtown vs. Columbia is way uptown. Plus I've heard Columbia is smaller and the students are more competitive with one another, while NYU students are more social and collaborative. I know NYU specializes in public interest and tax law, what about Columbia?

columbia students aren't more competitive with each other, that's a flame. nyu students aren't necessarily more social either. collaborative lol

both are great schools with strong faculty and interesting peers, you can be very successful in public or private sector at either. Money being equal, as a vast overgeneralization I'd hedge towards NYU if I was entirely committed to working in public interest and columbia for private/firm work. Anecdote, word on the street and the data suggest Columbia's ties as a feeder with the top firms in the city run deeper. I don't think the neighborhood thing is a big deal (although NYU will play up the village a lot), although restaurant/late night options are a lot better there. its mostly, do you want more of a campus feel or a "part of the life of the city" feel?

I debated it a little and came to CLS and have been very happy with my choice. costs would have been roughly the same for me.

[Tiago Splitter]

why Columbia over NYU?

Both are pretty much equally reputable. NYU is in a great location downtown vs. Columbia is way uptown. Plus I've heard Columbia is smaller and the students are more competitive with one another, while NYU students are more social and collaborative. I know NYU specializes in public interest and tax law, what about Columbia?

Why would Columbia students be competitive?

Also, Columbia housing is better and easier to deal with. And FWIW in Manhattan "way uptown" means like 15 minutes, to say nothing of all the cool stuff to do uptown. It's not like we're in the boonies up here.

sideroxylon is right that you should go to whichever offers more money.

[jbagelboy]

why Columbia over NYU?

Both are pretty much equally reputable. NYU is in a great location downtown vs. Columbia is way uptown. Plus I've heard Columbia is smaller and the students are more competitive with one another, while NYU students are more social and collaborative. I know NYU specializes in public interest and tax law, what about Columbia?

i'd be amazed if someone here cared enough to try to "sell" you on Columbia which is a pretty Columbia thing to say, maybe

NYU is a good school

I think we're a better school

you should probably go where you get the best aid package, if that's NYU, rad. If that's Columbia radder

I seriously doubt that NYU is "more social and collaborative." Do you know what makes people social and collaborative? Getting jobs. The PI thing is also totally overblown and I don't know how NYU people say it with a straight face. You have great entry points into PI from either school and people go into PI in similar ratios.

I agree with all this, I will say literally everyone I know at CLS is going to summer at a firm whereas I at least know two NYU students that are legitimately only working in public interest all the way and skipped oci so I'm inclined to marginally buy that nyu has a slightly larger committed public interest population, but thats probably more a function of inputs than outputs and "the people I know" is a ridiculous sample size.. there are definitely lots of public interest resources at both schools as you said.

[gatesome]

Thanks for your replies. What is the Columbia grading system?

[moonman157]

FWIW I couldn't imagine a more collaborative environment than CLS's. This was particularly true at EIP, which you would think would be the most cutthroat time of all (since it's basically what we all came here for). Instead, people were super supportive, helping each other out in just about every way possible. I think that can largely be attributed to the sense here that everyone will get jobs. That's not quite true obviously, but people here do very well when it comes to employment, so I think people don't feel like they need to step on each other to get to where they want to be. I'm sure NYU is also collaborative, but I don't think you should weigh a collaborative environment in their favor when picking a law school, because we have that as well.

[banjo]

Thanks for your replies. What is the Columbia grading system?

B- grades are not mandatory on CLS' curve. Just B/B+/A-/A. That's huge. People at NYU show up to EIW with B-'s on their transcripts.

[gatesome]

Thanks for your replies. What is the Columbia grading system?

B- grades are not mandatory on CLS' curve. Just B/B+/A-/A. That's huge. People at NYU show up to EIW with B-'s on their transcripts.

A guy at NYU told me (if memory serves) that in a class of 90 you can expect: 1 optional A+, 9 As, 20 A-, 50 B+/B, 10 B-, no Cs

[cws277]

I think if NYU gives slightly (<10k) more money than CLS, choosing CLS still makes sense solely on the basis of housing. I'm saving a ton of money living in crazy cheap and very nice (Columbia) digs. Obviously this calculation makes no sense if NYU offers way more than CLS.

[banjo]

Thanks for your replies. What is the Columbia grading system?

B- grades are not mandatory on CLS' curve. Just B/B+/A-/A. That's huge. People at NYU show up to EIW with B-'s on their transcripts.

A guy at NYU told me (if memory serves) that in a class of 90 you can expect: 1 optional A+, 9 As, 20 A-, 50 B+/B, 10 B-, no Cs

Those 10 B- grades would be a B at CLS. But that small change still takes away a lot of stress. You never have to worry about ending up in the bottom 6% or whatever.

Also, doesn't NYU only have three days of interviews at OCI? CLS has four full days of interviews, which allowed some people this year to do 40+ screeners (I even heard 45 in a hospitality suite). People underestimate the effect that simple OCI mechanics can have on job outcomes. It's no coincidence that GULC, an underperformer in big law placement, has relatively few screeners per student.

[Tiago Splitter]

I think if NYU gives slightly (<10k) more money than CLS, choosing CLS still makes sense solely on the basis of housing. I'm saving a ton of money living in crazy cheap and very nice (Columbia) digs. Obviously this calculation makes no sense if NYU offers way more than CLS.

The housing at CLS is what did it for me but NYU's tuition is lower which helps make up for it.

[ph5354a]

I think if NYU gives slightly (<10k) more money than CLS, choosing CLS still makes sense solely on the basis of housing. I'm saving a ton of money living in crazy cheap and very nice (Columbia) digs. Obviously this calculation makes no sense if NYU offers way more than CLS.

The housing at CLS is what did it for me but NYU's tuition is lower which helps make up for it.

^Same, housing is way cheaper, plus generally cheaper cost of living in MoHi.

But I don't have time to convince someone to come here over NYU. I'm busy giving my Jewish friends incorrect notes from today's classes and slicing statutes out of library books.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

why Columbia over NYU?

Both are pretty much equally reputable. NYU is in a great location downtown vs. Columbia is way uptown. Plus I've heard Columbia is smaller and the students are more competitive with one another, while NYU students are more social and collaborative. I know NYU specializes in public interest and tax law, what about Columbia?

1. As jbagelboy said, we do slightly better in NYC Biglaw.
2. Tax law only matters if you get an LLM.
3. It doesn't matter all that much if you're in a better location because most of the advantages of downtown require the kind of time and money law students typically don't have. But if you do need to go downtown it's like a 20-35 minute trip (depending where). Morningside isn't the boondocks.
4. I don't know where this cutthroat stuff keeps coming from, but it's like moonman said: There's no competition because we pretty much assume that we're all getting jobs. The type of people you meet will be exactly the same at both.

Our tuition is slightly higher but the COL difference will make your overall bill slightly less here. I was offered $25k at NYU; I took Columbia at sticker. I wouldn't take a difference much bigger than that though.

[mylifeis24]

I think if NYU gives slightly (<10k) more money than CLS, choosing CLS still makes sense solely on the basis of housing. I'm saving a ton of money living in crazy cheap and very nice (Columbia) digs. Obviously this calculation makes no sense if NYU offers way more than CLS.

The housing at CLS is what did it for me but NYU's tuition is lower which helps make up for it.

^Same, housing is way cheaper, plus generally cheaper cost of living in MoHi.

But I don't have time to convince someone to come here over NYU. I'm busy giving my Jewish friends incorrect notes from today's classes and slicing statutes out of library books.

Lol, I enjoyed this. To the OP, I'm a 1L, and I was extremely torn before NYU and CLS. Choose CLS for 1) the aid package, 2) the guarantee of a job, which is greater than at NYU, even if not by much. After 6 weeks here, I can say that I am beyond happy with my choice. The main reasons I was looking at NYU were 1) their perceived "PI edge", 2) location, 3) heard that NYU was social and fun and collaborative, whereas that was not the case for CLS. I've been proved wrong on each of those points. Columbia's dedicated Office of Social Justice Initiatives is separate from the Office of Career Services and has been ridiculously out there and helpful with entering the PI world. Can't imagine how NYU could do it any better than what SJI at CLS is doing. For location, I've gone out at least twice ever weekend, and the 20 minutes train or cab ride to the LES, Hell's Kitchen, or West Village is nothing. Last, I have no idea where the idea that CLS is cut-throat and competitive came from. My classmates are my friends and they're awesome. Can't say it any simpler than that.

Also, CLS does a 3 week intro to law school/NYC/let's get drunk thing they call Legal Methods which is fun, informative, effective and unique to us. Disclaimer: I had Bobbitt who is primarily responsible for the string of adjectives just mentioned, but the 3 week fun period is great no matter which professor you have.

In sum, from a guy that was in your place just a few months ago, CLS is phenomenal in every regard. Obviously can't speak to the experience at NYU, but I can promise that you won't be sorry for picking CLS.

[AdInfinitum]

Anyone have doctor recommendations in the area?

I tried booking an appointment through the student medical services online but it seemed like they're ridiculously booked up, which is no help when I'm sick.