UC Hastings Students Taking Questions Forum

[lisavj]

though i personally don't know of anyone that does.

^ There are about six of us in section 2... possibly more

[Lasers]

Hello 1L's. Thanks for taking the time to respond to prospective Hasting students.

I received a call from admissions today informing me that I'm in. I currently live in Oakland (Lake Merritt), and I hardly ever go into the city, so I don't know much about it. Do you think it would be worth commuting from here?

I BART in from Walnut Creek (3 block walk to BART then it's about six steps from BART to the school - I literally have made it to class from a train arriving 5 min before, though I wouldn't advise cutting it that close). I personally love being off campus - it gives me a big picture view of law school. Of course, I waited six years and a separate degree before going back to law school and have a spouse so living near his work was pretty important.

I find that I get a ton of reading done on BART, whether for class, or just background (prof papers, background reading etc.). Because I have the extra time where I basically just read I found on exams I picked up a bunch of extra points because I had a wide knowledge of the subject matter. The key here will be can you get a seat so you can highlight/take notes. I'm way out in the boonies so I always get one, but if I commuted in from MacArthur I wouldn't...

Of course, I'm biased bc I choose to do this. There have been times on long days (EG with LWR) when I wished I had a bed close by and could take a nap. Of course, because I was stuck on campus I studied. You do need the discipline to try to get stuff done at school so you don't have to take seven freakishly large books home. Also, I tend to wake up around 5:45/6am because I like to get into campus around 7:30/8.

Lockers in the basement of the tower and the 198 building help a ton. (I also try to work out at the tower before I head home because the elliptical is nicer to my knees than pavement).

Hope that helps!

EDIT: my spelling is awfsome

this is the perfect example of how to make commuting an advantage. well actually, it's a perfect example of how to do well in law school.

i for one cannot manage such a disciplined schedule; i sleep at 3 and wake up as late as possible. were i forced to commute, i would probably have flunked out.

JDProspect, if you're as lazy as i am, or if you anticipate any problems commuting, i would think long and hard about it before committing to such a plan. if you're more structured/able to wake up before 7 for morning classes, i think lisa provides a blueprint to being successful while commuting.

[Lasers]

though i personally don't know of anyone that does.

^ There are about six of us in section 2... possibly more

haha, i think like maybe half the section commutes, though from varying distances. i don't personally know anyone from the east bay in our section, which, now that i think about it, is a bit odd. probably my fault for not knowing more people.

[JDProspect]

Hello 1L's. Thanks for taking the time to respond to prospective Hasting students.

I received a call from admissions today informing me that I'm in. I currently live in Oakland (Lake Merritt), and I hardly ever go into the city, so I don't know much about it. Do you think it would be worth commuting from here?

I BART in from Walnut Creek (3 block walk to BART then it's about six steps from BART to the school - I literally have made it to class from a train arriving 5 min before, though I wouldn't advise cutting it that close). I personally love being off campus - it gives me a big picture view of law school. Of course, I waited six years and a separate degree before going back to law school and have a spouse so living near his work was pretty important.

I find that I get a ton of reading done on BART, whether for class, or just background (prof papers, background reading etc.). Because I have the extra time where I basically just read I found on exams I picked up a bunch of extra points because I had a wide knowledge of the subject matter. The key here will be can you get a seat so you can highlight/take notes. I'm way out in the boonies so I always get one, but if I commuted in from MacArthur I wouldn't...

Of course, I'm biased bc I choose to do this. There have been times on long days (EG with LWR) when I wished I had a bed close by and could take a nap. Of course, because I was stuck on campus I studied. You do need the discipline to try to get stuff done at school so you don't have to take seven freakishly large books home. Also, I tend to wake up around 5:45/6am because I like to get into campus around 7:30/8.

Lockers in the basement of the tower and the 198 building help a ton. (I also try to work out at the tower before I head home because the elliptical is nicer to my knees than pavement).

Hope that helps!

EDIT: my spelling is awfsome

this is the perfect example of how to make commuting an advantage. well actually, it's a perfect example of how to do well in law school.

i for one cannot manage such a disciplined schedule; i sleep at 3 and wake up as late as possible. were i forced to commute, i would probably have flunked out.

JDProspect, if you're as lazy as i am, or if you anticipate any problems commuting, i would think long and hard about it before committing to such a plan. if you're more structured/able to wake up before 7 for morning classes, i think lisa provides a blueprint to being successful while commuting.

Thank you all for your input. I used to work in the city a few years ago, but started at 9am (by Montgomery BART). I'm not so much of a morning person, guess I could train to become one? I'm more of a night person/studier though. So it will definitely be an adjustment. For me, the NL (AC transit transbay) would be more convenient as the stop is only a couple of blocks away, but then I would have to muni from SF Transbay station to Hastings. I think it would be too much. I'll try it out when I go visit the campus to see if it's even an option. If not, then I'll look into living at the Towers. I don't have family in Oakland or anything, it's just a matter of comfort, low rent, and the fact that I've lived in this apartment for years.

[ilovesf]

Thank you all for your input. I used to work in the city a few years ago, but started at 9am (by Montgomery BART). I'm not so much of a morning person, guess I could train to become one? I'm more of a night person/studier though. So it will definitely be an adjustment. For me, the NL (AC transit transbay) would be more convenient as the stop is only a couple of blocks away, but then I would have to muni from SF Transbay station to Hastings. I think it would be too much. I'll try it out when I go visit the campus to see if it's even an option. If not, then I'll look into living at the Towers. I don't have family in Oakland or anything, it's just a matter of comfort, low rent, and the fact that I've lived in this apartment for years.

I only live like 15 blocks away, but I know a bunch of people who commute from the east bay and don't have a problem with it. I wake up at 6:45 every morning because I have class at 8:30 this semester, and I have to feed my dog, make coffee, eat breakfast, etc. I used to NEVER be a morning person. I used to sleep in through class every day in college (explains the poor gpa!), sleep till noon on weekends, and go to sleep at 3am. I love my sleep. Law school makes you change a lot about your habits. I am definitely more of a morning person now. Even on weekends I wake up at around 8 am because I don't want to ruin my schedule. I'm also much more productive now in the mornings than I am at night. Anyway, I'm saying this to let you know that you can definitely train to become a morning person. It just involves practice and coffee.

[lisavj]

Anyway, I'm saying this to let you know that you can definitely train to become a morning person. It just involves practice and coffee.

FWIW I was a total night owl pre law skool...

[aliceydu]

Hi! I got the acceptance call from Hastings a couple of days ago, so I'll be lurking around here.

So what's the "traditional student" anyway? I read the average age is 24, so a traditional student isn't really someone who's just finished their undergrad right?

Also, anything worth reading for the summer before law school? I'm not talking about those I-want-a-head-start, academic books. I just feel like I don't know much about law school (or anything for that matter)... just something interesting and not too heavy.

Thanks ^^

[lisavj]

I think traditional is a myth...however the school invites people over 28 to a lunch for "non traditional students"...or maybe it was older students? I don't remember. (not that I was left out in the cold or anything for being a few lousy months off the cutoff... ). I think of myself as less-than-traditional mostly because of the spousal unit. Not a ton of marrieds at law school, but more than I would have guessed.

When it comes to books, I read quite a bit of "get ahead" ones and I think they helped...but that's not what you asked for (Getting to Maybe by the way, far and away your best bet on that front).

On law school - One L (about the dude's first year at Harvard)....
I'd also recommend "The Nine" by Toobin.

Oh, yea, and welcome .

[Lasers]

Hi! I got the acceptance call from Hastings a couple of days ago, so I'll be lurking around here.

So what's the "traditional student" anyway? I read the average age is 24, so a traditional student isn't really someone who's just finished their undergrad right?

Also, anything worth reading for the summer before law school? I'm not talking about those I-want-a-head-start, academic books. I just feel like I don't know much about law school (or anything for that matter)... just something interesting and not too heavy.

Thanks ^^

I think most students are not traditional k-jd students.

The only book I read in its entirety before law school was 1L of a ride. Really light reading that gave me a really good idea of what to expect in law school.

[kapital98]

Hi! I got the acceptance call from Hastings a couple of days ago, so I'll be lurking around here.

So what's the "traditional student" anyway? I read the average age is 24, so a traditional student isn't really someone who's just finished their undergrad right?

Also, anything worth reading for the summer before law school? I'm not talking about those I-want-a-head-start, academic books. I just feel like I don't know much about law school (or anything for that matter)... just something interesting and not too heavy.

Thanks ^^

Congratulations!

Most of the people I know have been out of school for 1-3 years. Their work typically revolved around legal, political, or business. A surprisingly large minority of students have prior graduate degrees.

I'm a K-JD student and don't personally know many other similar students. There doesn't seem to be any social or academic difference between "traditional" and "non-traditional" students. Personally, I like when non-traditional students talk in class because they have real world experience (not that experience necessarily transfers into better grades.)

My advice for a book to read: Plant Law School II. It's an excellent book for 0L's. It's very long, not always on-point, but overall an amazing book. It really helps students understand what's important (FINAL EXAMS!), what's not important (class discussion), and ways to maximize efficiency. LEEWS is another great resource, discussed in PLSII, but can wait until you're already in law school. Don't follow the advice about reading E&E's before law school -- it's a waste of time. The book is very long but you can skim through the last half because it's not really relevant to 1L's.

You could read Getting to Maybe but I found that to be much too simple for my tastes. However, it's more concise than PLSII and significantly better than going into law school without any preparation. I read both before law school and they gave me direction during the first semester.

P.S. Watch The Paper Chase on Netflix. It's probably the most realistic movie about the first year of law school.

[Mhyst]

0L here and am really glad I found this forum. I'll direct this question toward Lisavj but by all means would love as much feedback as could be had from the other 1L's.

I'm 35, graduated December 2010, and got my phone call (which was one heck of a good day). I'm planning to stay in Berkeley as I've been here for almost four years and a 40 min BART ride isn't too bad (I'm already commuting to Concord for work every day!).

My question is: What do you know or have learned now that you wish somebody told you on your first day as a Hastings student? Any words of wisdom, be it the "don't drink the coffee here" (which made me laugh) to the "AVOID AT ALL COSTS" variety is kindly accepted.

Also, I like how you get all of your work done at school. How late do you find yourself staying on campus? How have you managed to, well, manage the home life with the law student life?

[lisavj]

Hiya!

What do you know or have learned now that you wish somebody told you on your first day as a Hastings student? Any words of wisdom, be it the "don't drink the coffee here" (which made me laugh) to the "AVOID AT ALL COSTS" variety is kindly accepted.

Hm, I like the coffee - so measure my advice by that standard. I also like Starbucks. A few thoughts:

If you can bring a lunch you save a decent amount of cash. The food trucks come on Friday - maybe don't bring lunch then. Chairman Bao's bun truck rocks.

Make law school friends, but make a regular (once a month, once a week) coffee date with a friend who isn't in law school.

I will say second semester hits a heck of a lot harder than first, so ignore it when people tell you that it's OK to put stuff like volunteering off until you "get the hang" of law school. Adding in moot court, a job hunt, and the fact that professors tend to think you know how to read a case so they can give you a few more to read each week makes second semester fun for all involved. IMHO if you can't juggle it first semester you really won't be able to second semester, but that could be my own limitation.

Bust your butt to get the grades. It will pay off, I promise.

Also, I like how you get all of your work done at school. How late do you find yourself staying on campus? How have you managed to, well, manage the home life with the law student life?

Sorry to have misled you! I don't get all of my work done at school - I'm actually waiting for my brief to finish printing for a final review as I type this. However, I try to take as little home as possible, and during the first semester things only really came home over the weekends when I was getting towards finals. Now that I'm in second semester I bring more home, but still have threeish evenings without anything and at least one day over the weekend (got back today from a trip to Tahoe over the long weekend where I did all of about an hour of work). Right now I'm home at around 6/6:30p MWF, home 9p on Tues, and we volunteer together at our church on Thursday evenings.

On home life...I had a lot of honest conversations with my spouse before I came to law school, and now I try to check in and make sure he is doing well regularly - communication, as always, is key. I also try to go out of my way to thank him for his being awesome and helping me out with law school (breakfast in bed before leaving at 6:45a goes a long way). A few other thoughts: always good to let the sig. other know when life is going to get crazy (generally bad weeks are when LWR papers are due, and when brief drafts are due) so he can arrange for a business trip if he doesn't want to witness the insanity. Find ways to be together, even if it's just a hand-held walk to walgreens so you can pick up more highlighters . Disclaimer: the spouse rocks and goes out of his way to help me succeed, so it's sorta easy .

Anyone else have thoughts?

[ilovesf]

My question is: What do you know or have learned now that you wish somebody told you on your first day as a Hastings student? Any words of wisdom, be it the "don't drink the coffee here" (which made me laugh) to the "AVOID AT ALL COSTS" variety is kindly accepted.

Congrats on your acceptance! I guess I haven't learned that much that I hadn't already figured out by looking through previous threads before school started, I just wish I had listened to advice! I would have definitely fixed my resume and written cover letters before school started. I also would have set up appointments with the career office early to go over them and not wait until December was almost here. I applied to things much earlier than everyone else, and it really paid off. What I really want to emphasis to everyone coming is to DO THOSE THINGS EARLY, so you can concentrate on school later on. Seriously. For coffee, Phils on Van Ness is my absolute favorite. It's kind of expensive and a couple of blocks away, but sooo good. They are opening one one block away but I'm not sure when. The coffee in the law cafe sucks, but it's so convenient that I end up drinking it daily. The food there is also pretty subpar, but I also eat there because I'm lazy. I'm trying hard to bring my lunch to school, but I never end up cooking anything the night before (because once again, I'm lazy.)
Oh yeah, when you have moot court in second semester, take the first few weeks of research really seriously. The one week to write your 10 pages really suck if you haven't formed some sort of argument in your head beforehand.

Also, I like how you get all of your work done at school. How late do you find yourself staying on campus? How have you managed to, well, manage the home life with the law student life?

I try to get to campus at 8:10 (I have class at 8:30) and I usually stay until around 5. I usually finish up most things at school so I don't have to work at home. There is usually a couple hours between classes, so make the most of this time and try to be productive. This semester there is SO much more work like lisa said, mostly because of moot court. Second semester definitely isn't as much fun as the first.

[Lasers]

This semester there is SO much more work like lisa said, mostly because of moot court. Second semester definitely isn't as much fun as the first.

totally agree.

and the first semester isn't that much fun to begin with.

[kapital98]

This semester there is SO much more work like lisa said, mostly because of moot court. Second semester definitely isn't as much fun as the first.

totally agree.

and the first semester isn't that much fun to begin with.

I agree too.

My one take home point of first semester at Hastings is this: Don't focus too much on Legal Writing & Analysis. There are people who spend entire days trying to find the "perfect" case. At the end of the week, after everyone has done their research, the professor or TA will give you all of the relevant cases.

I focused almost exclusively on doctrinal classes that counted towards my GPA. LWR grades have a letter but don't count towards your GPA. Do the least amount of work that will get you a "good" grade. Also, the grading distribution is completely distorted in LWR. Most classes have 30-60% A's even though the professor says he can only give ~20%. The lowest grade in my LWR class was a "B."

I know people who spent entire days trying to impress the professor and it was almost a complete waste of time. Almost half the people I know thought their LWR class was possibly their most important grade! This is my primary "don't drink the kool-aid" tip.

(--LinkRemoved--).

The same goes for moot court. Get in, get out, and keep focused on the courses that matter. Law school is so busy as it is that you don't have time for pointless exercises. Keep your eye on the prize: FINAL EXAMS!

[aliceydu]

I got my phone call over a week ago, and still haven't received my package in the mail yet. I'M SO ANXIOUS! I'm so scared he called me by accident!

How long did everyone wait before you got your package? I'm going to call them tomorrow just to make sure.

[kapital98]

I got my phone call over a week ago, and still haven't received my package in the mail yet. I'M SO ANXIOUS! I'm so scared he called me by accident!

How long did everyone wait before you got your package? I'm going to call them tomorrow just to make sure.

First, don't worry. The acceptance phone call is amazing and you'll receive your package.

Second, I received my package in about a week. However, it only contained an admissions letter and a LEOP acceptance letter. A few weeks later they sent me my financial aid award.

The initial acceptance package is underwhelming but that could be because I was taken off the waitlist. Maybe that's different for other students?

[odetojefferson]

Do you guys have any experience with Hastings negotiating financial aid? Are they stingy with scholarships as I have heard?

Haven't gotten my package, and Hastings is my top choice, but it's difficult to tell my parents I would turn down 60k at UC-Irvine.

[Lasers]

Do you guys have any experience with Hastings negotiating financial aid? Are they stingy with scholarships as I have heard?

Haven't gotten my package, and Hastings is my top choice, but it's difficult to tell my parents I would turn down 60k at UC-Irvine.

yes, they are stingy.

irvine is a risk (though everywhere in CA right now is a risk in some sense besides stanford, including the lower half at boalt/ucla/usc), and i didn't even apply there (though i went there for undergrad and i love it down there). it's a viable option though, especially with 60k in aid. i would weigh options and determine where you want to practice. also, try to negotiate with hastings; they may or may not be receptive.

[ilovesf]

I agree too.

My one take home point of first semester at Hastings is this: Don't focus too much on Legal Writing & Analysis. There are people who spend entire days trying to find the "perfect" case. At the end of the week, after everyone has done their research, the professor or TA will give you all of the relevant cases.

I focused almost exclusively on doctrinal classes that counted towards my GPA. LWR grades have a letter but don't count towards your GPA. Do the least amount of work that will get you a "good" grade. Also, the grading distribution is completely distorted in LWR. Most classes have 30-60% A's even though the professor says he can only give ~20%. The lowest grade in my LWR class was a "B."

I know people who spent entire days trying to impress the professor and it was almost a complete waste of time. Almost half the people I know thought their LWR class was possibly their most important grade! This is my primary "don't drink the kool-aid" tip.

(--LinkRemoved--).

The same goes for moot court. Get in, get out, and keep focused on the courses that matter. Law school is so busy as it is that you don't have time for pointless exercises. Keep your eye on the prize: FINAL EXAMS!

I don't know, I kind of disagree with some of this. LWR definitely isn't as important as your gpa, I would never say otherwise. I definitely wouldn't say you should work on it at the expense of other classes, but I think you should put a lot of effort into it. I worked pretty hard on my memo and got an A- in the class. The lowest grade in my section was a B- I think. Only 1 person got an A, and 3 people got an A-, the rest got under.

I think your LWR grade can really impact what you do for your 1L summer. Most people say what you do your 1L summer doesn't matter, which is probably true. But if there is something you really want to do, like work for a judge, your writing sample is REALLY important. If anything, I'm happy I worked hard on LWR because I now have a great writing sample. In my interview with a judge both the judge and the clerks went through my writing sample and made comments on it and asked me questions. They said one of the reasons they asked me in was because I had a good sample.

Also, LWR professors are some of the best references you can get. They have real jobs outside of being your LWR professor - mine was a staff attorney for the CA Court of Appeal. It is great to have someone who can speak to your writing on your reference list, and really important to have someone from LS on your references. It's also great to have a good relationship with someone who has connections and can help you get a job. My moot court professor right now is hooking up someone else in my section with an interview at the cal doj.

[kapital98]

I agree too.

My one take home point of first semester at Hastings is this: Don't focus too much on Legal Writing & Analysis. There are people who spend entire days trying to find the "perfect" case. At the end of the week, after everyone has done their research, the professor or TA will give you all of the relevant cases.

I focused almost exclusively on doctrinal classes that counted towards my GPA. LWR grades have a letter but don't count towards your GPA. Do the least amount of work that will get you a "good" grade. Also, the grading distribution is completely distorted in LWR. Most classes have 30-60% A's even though the professor says he can only give ~20%. The lowest grade in my LWR class was a "B."

I know people who spent entire days trying to impress the professor and it was almost a complete waste of time. Almost half the people I know thought their LWR class was possibly their most important grade! This is my primary "don't drink the kool-aid" tip.

(--LinkRemoved--).

The same goes for moot court. Get in, get out, and keep focused on the courses that matter. Law school is so busy as it is that you don't have time for pointless exercises. Keep your eye on the prize: FINAL EXAMS!

I don't know, I kind of disagree with some of this. LWR definitely isn't as important as your gpa, I would never say otherwise. I definitely wouldn't say you should work on it at the expense of other classes, but I think you should put a lot of effort into it. I worked pretty hard on my memo and got an A- in the class. The lowest grade in my section was a B- I think. Only 1 person got an A, and 3 people got an A-, the rest got under.

I think your LWR grade can really impact what you do for your 1L summer. Most people say what you do your 1L summer doesn't matter, which is probably true. But if there is something you really want to do, like work for a judge, your writing sample is REALLY important. If anything, I'm happy I worked hard on LWR because I now have a great writing sample. In my interview with a judge both the judge and the clerks went through my writing sample and made comments on it and asked me questions. They said one of the reasons they asked me in was because I had a good sample.

Also, LWR professors are some of the best references you can get. They have real jobs outside of being your LWR professor - mine was a staff attorney for the CA Court of Appeal. It is great to have someone who can speak to your writing on your reference list, and really important to have someone from LS on your references. It's also great to have a good relationship with someone who has connections and can help you get a job. My moot court professor right now is hooking up someone else in my section with an interview at the cal doj.

I expected there would be disagreement. IMHO, too many people did put their memos ahead of their GPA courses. There is only so much time in the day and every hour you put towards your memo is an hour lost studying for GPA courses. I was really surprised by how much time people spent on LWR.

Having a good writing sample is critical. You're probably right about summer jobs. However, having a good writing sample is even more important for OCI. An OCI writing sample can come from LWR, Moot Court, or a summer job.

Also, the grading distribution is completely arbitrary for LWR. In my class it was an even split between "A's" and "B's." In my roommate's class they only received one "A."

Full Disclosure: I got a B+ on my first memo and then a B on my second memo ("B" overall.) I openly told the professor, "LWR isn't important to me. All I want is a decent grade." That was REALLY STUPID. My grade was right on the edge of a B+/B and I'm sure my professor had no moral qualms over giving me a "B."

[sienna.ann]

Hi! I just got my acceptance last week and wanted to ask about the competitiveness that so many people talk about at Hastings. Is it really competitive and difficult to make friends?

( I know that any law school will have a sense of competition to it, but I just wanted to see how bad it is at Hastings).

[Lasers]

Full Disclosure: I got a B+ on my first memo and then a B on my second memo ("B" overall.) I openly told the professor, "LWR isn't important to me. All I want is a decent grade." That was REALLY STUPID. My grade was right on the edge of a B+/B and I'm sure my professor had no moral qualms over giving me a "B."

also, i would say LWR matters MUCH more than moot court but GPA trumps all. also, it really doesn't take that much effort to do well in LWR; i literally half assed all my research but stepped it up big time for the rough draft, and then put some time into editing it. the rough draft is most important because with a polished first draft your professor can give you really good feedback and you won't have almost any work afterwards. not sure how many A's were given out besides mine, but I'm guessing 1-2.

[Lasers]

Hi! I just got my acceptance last week and wanted to ask about the competitiveness that so many people talk about at Hastings. Is it really competitive and difficult to make friends?

( I know that any law school will have a sense of competition to it, but I just wanted to see how bad it is at Hastings).

congrats.

it's very easy to make friends...seriously. i'm not the most social person, but i have a close group of friends and i always say hi or wave to other people in my section/other sections/2Ls/3Ls even if i only talked to them a couple of times before. whenever i miss class, people are always willing to send me their notes. just be nice.

as for competition, however, it's definitely there. everyone wants the same thing, but that doesn't mean people will be dicks about it, either.

[ilovesf]

Hi! I just got my acceptance last week and wanted to ask about the competitiveness that so many people talk about at Hastings. Is it really competitive and difficult to make friends?

( I know that any law school will have a sense of competition to it, but I just wanted to see how bad it is at Hastings).

congrats.

it's very easy to make friends...seriously. i'm not the most social person, but i have a close group of friends and i always say hi or wave to other people in my section/other sections/2Ls/3Ls even if i only talked to them a couple of times before. whenever i miss class, people are always willing to send me their notes. just be nice.

as for competition, however, it's definitely there. everyone wants the same thing, but that doesn't mean people will be dicks about it, either.

I think people are super friendly, it hasn't been a problem. I'm a local so a lot of my friends aren't from LS, so I don't spend as much time with fellow students. I still really like everyone though. It's competitive, but all law schools are competitive. It isn't like rumors where people say "people rip out pages of books and hide things." also, we don't even use books anymore so it doesn't matter.