Chicago 2L Takings ?s Forum

[SuichiKurama]

Grippo & Elden and Eimer Stahl are supposed to be very good. But they're also really small so getting an offer would be kinda random. Bartlit is probably the most selective (as far as I know) but I don't think they hire 2L's. I think last year there was someone from law review at Barack Ferrazzano. Last year we also had a 1L, public-interest type at Loevy & Loevy (it's a smaller plaintiff-side civil rights firm).

I don't know enough to say if there's anything else out there. It doesn't seem like Chicago has any Munger/W&C-type places, though (medium-sized, ultra-selective litigation firms).

Not that this is that important but Chicago definitely does have a Munger/W&C type firm---in a way it's even more of that vein in terms of their business model than those two firms. I don't know if I've ever seen a firm more selective than Bartlitt Beck--the profiles of their attorneys are amazing.


http://www.bartlit-beck.com/
http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTA ... hbxlogin=1
--LinkRemoved--

I'm fairly sure I mentioned Bartlit in my post, but the relevant point is that Munger and W&C are bigger, and hence take more people every year, than Bartlit. I don't even know if Bartlit hires 2L's anymore (my recollection from perusing their website is that they only look at you post-clerkship, but I could be wrong). Thus, Bartlit is almost certainly more selective in its entry-level hiring than Munger and W&C, which is probably what you were getting at. I definitely agree that it's a fantastic firm. It's just not AS within reach (or realistic, as far as OCI strategy goes) for a 2L as the other two.

Yeah they only hire about 2-3 summers a year who are in between 3L and a clerkship---that's ridiculous.

[Dany]

Wowwww. Even just the quickest of scans through some of Bartlit's attorneys is daunting. Some of the resumes are unreal.

[Hamilton]

Went apartment hunting yesterday with the fiancee. We told the Chicago Apartment Finders' lady that we wanted quieter residential neighborhoods rather than "happening" neighborhoods so showed us a bunch of stuff in the $1000-$1400 up north in the Buena Park/Wrigleyville area. The first two places were total dumps; the third place was nicer, but definitely needed some TLC and had mouse-traps EVERYwhere.

When I search on the internet for 1 bedrooms in that price range, I keep seeing pictures of newly gutted kitchens, hardwood floors, etc, and that's more along the lines of what we were hoping to see. Is there something I'm missing? Also, a friend told me to look in the south loop & little Italy neighborhoods... thoughts?

Thanks.

[lilybbloom]

so why don't you just arrange appointments to see the nice apartments? no need to hire someone to show you around.
lakeview is expensive, and why would you want to live in wrigley? it's the opposite of quiet. sounds like your "agent" has no idea what she's doing, which is my experience with chicago apt. finders. ditch her!

the south loop is very residential, and convenient to hyde park because you can zip right down lake shore and be on campus in 15 minutes. it's all high-rise condo and some rental units, and they tend to be new and sometimes pricey. you're probably looking at around $1500 for a 1-bedroom, but that could vary either way.

i would not recommend living farther north than the south loop for 1L.

[Emma.]

Went apartment hunting yesterday with the fiancee. We told the Chicago Apartment Finders' lady that we wanted quieter residential neighborhoods rather than "happening" neighborhoods so showed us a bunch of stuff in the $1000-$1400 up north in the Buena Park/Wrigleyville area. The first two places were total dumps; the third place was nicer, but definitely needed some TLC and had mouse-traps EVERYwhere.

When I search on the internet for 1 bedrooms in that price range, I keep seeing pictures of newly gutted kitchens, hardwood floors, etc, and that's more along the lines of what we were hoping to see. Is there something I'm missing? Also, a friend told me to look in the south loop & little Italy neighborhoods... thoughts?

Thanks.

I looked at some Sth Loop places but finally settled on staying in HP for 1L. Lilybbloom's thoughts about the Sth Loop pretty much mirror what I found.

Check out http://www.padmapper.com if you haven't already.

[thorntll]

Went apartment hunting yesterday with the fiancee. We told the Chicago Apartment Finders' lady that we wanted quieter residential neighborhoods rather than "happening" neighborhoods so showed us a bunch of stuff in the $1000-$1400 up north in the Buena Park/Wrigleyville area. The first two places were total dumps; the third place was nicer, but definitely needed some TLC and had mouse-traps EVERYwhere.

When I search on the internet for 1 bedrooms in that price range, I keep seeing pictures of newly gutted kitchens, hardwood floors, etc, and that's more along the lines of what we were hoping to see. Is there something I'm missing? Also, a friend told me to look in the south loop & little Italy neighborhoods... thoughts?

Thanks.

I know what you mean. I got excited looking at Craigslist, before I realized that all the nice places are in Rogers Park (which is dangerous) and Pilsen and Ukrainian Village (which are nowhere near the El).

[lilybbloom]

Rogers Park is no more dangerous than Hyde Park (and some parts are actually nice). But it's on the other side of the city, so I don't know why you'd want to live there.

[cranberry]

what are some good, inexpensive places to buy furniture and mattresses? besides ikea.

[Mr. T6]

Went apartment hunting yesterday with the fiancee. We told the Chicago Apartment Finders' lady that we wanted quieter residential neighborhoods rather than "happening" neighborhoods so showed us a bunch of stuff in the $1000-$1400 up north in the Buena Park/Wrigleyville area. The first two places were total dumps; the third place was nicer, but definitely needed some TLC and had mouse-traps EVERYwhere.

When I search on the internet for 1 bedrooms in that price range, I keep seeing pictures of newly gutted kitchens, hardwood floors, etc, and that's more along the lines of what we were hoping to see. Is there something I'm missing? Also, a friend told me to look in the south loop & little Italy neighborhoods... thoughts?

Thanks.

I know what you mean. I got excited looking at Craigslist, before I realized that all the nice places are in Rogers Park (which is dangerous) and Pilsen and Ukrainian Village (which are nowhere near the El).

Rogers Park is not dangerous. Many of my friends moved up there because of its substantial Jewish community. I also have friends in Pilsen and the Ukrainian Village, which are both nice areas.

[agentzer0]

besides ikea.

why's everyone gotta hate on ikea?

[cranberry]

i don't want anything i have to assemble.

[miamiman]

I'm sure this has been asked and, subsequently, answered, but where do the Regents Park people buy groceries? I looked on Google Maps and Hyde Park Produce is exactly a mile away. Is that the best option available?

[pehaigllleises]

I go to Treasure Island, which is maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 mile. I buy non-perishables (basically anything that the store's mishandling cannot cause to go bad) from Village Foods, which is only a couple blocks away, occasionally.

[bizen boat]

I go to Treasure Island, which is maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 mile. I buy non-perishables (basically anything that the store's mishandling cannot cause to go bad) from Village Foods, which is only a couple blocks away, occasionally.

In my opinion, much of the criticism of Hyde Park (boring, dangerous, inaccessible) is overblown. However, for those without a car, the grocery situation really is that bad. When I last lived there, Treasure Island was called the Co-op (or something like that) and you basically had to get "luxury-priced" versions of even staple goods there. I guess I should withhold judgment until I actually visit this Treasure Island, but come on, it's called Treasure Island. Doesn't sound like a place poor, indebted law students would normally shop for groceries...

[UChicagoStudent]

Can you comment on how important grades are while interviewing out of U of C? I'm speaking specifically to firms outside of the V30.

Career services (via Paul Woo, aka the nicest person in the world) has indicated that most employers will not put as much emphasis on grades as students believe they will, however I am very skeptical about this. Can you comment on the importance of grades given the school's reputation for pumping out outstanding lawyers. How did people fare who were below median (me)? How much would a great interview and solid resume and work experience counter sub-median grades?

[pehaigllleises]

In my opinion, much of the criticism of Hyde Park (boring, dangerous, inaccessible) is overblown. However, for those without a car, the grocery situation really is that bad. When I last lived there, Treasure Island was called the Co-op (or something like that) and you basically had to get "luxury-priced" versions of even staple goods there. I guess I should withhold judgment until I actually visit this Treasure Island, but come on, it's called Treasure Island. Doesn't sound like a place poor, indebted law students would normally shop for groceries...

I don't have a car, or at least I didn't before my fiance moved here with one. I just walked, or when it was miserably cold I either ate what I had, or I coordinated my trips so that another Regents 1L was around who could drive with me or pick me up. You can also use PeaPod if it's miserable outside.

The prices in Treasure Island also seem reasonable to me. It is MUCH cheaper than food in New York, like almost half price. Some people think it's expensive, but that probably depends on what part of the country you're coming here from.

[Emma.]

I go to Treasure Island, which is maybe a 1/4 to 1/2 mile. I buy non-perishables (basically anything that the store's mishandling cannot cause to go bad) from Village Foods, which is only a couple blocks away, occasionally.

In my opinion, much of the criticism of Hyde Park (boring, dangerous, inaccessible) is overblown. However, for those without a car, the grocery situation really is that bad. When I last lived there, Treasure Island was called the Co-op (or something like that) and you basically had to get "luxury-priced" versions of even staple goods there. I guess I should withhold judgment until I actually visit this Treasure Island, but come on, it's called Treasure Island. Doesn't sound like a place poor, indebted law students would normally shop for groceries...

Checked out Treasure Island while I was in town looking for apartments in June. Seemed like a pretty nice store and definitely walkable from Regents and the apartment I ended up with. I didn't get too into checking prices, but it seemed pretty standard. I'll probably buy a bunch of staples at Costco and do more regular shopping at Whole Foods (I'll have a car), but I think you'd be fine doing most of your shopping at Treasure Island.

[UChicagoStudent]

Can you comment on how important grades are while interviewing out of U of C? I'm speaking specifically to firms outside of the V30.

Career services (via Paul Woo, aka the nicest person in the world) has indicated that most employers will not put as much emphasis on grades as students believe they will, however I am very skeptical about this. Can you comment on the importance of grades given the school's reputation for pumping out outstanding lawyers. How did people fare who were below median (me)? How much would a great interview and solid resume and work experience counter sub-median grades?

Bump on Question.

[Hamilton]

Anyone live at the Amli 900 apartments in south loop? Went there today to tour with my wife and my leasing agent said they have a bunch of UofC law students there. Thoughts on the place?

[remotelyfeasible]

Can you comment on how important grades are while interviewing out of U of C? I'm speaking specifically to firms outside of the V30.

Career services (via Paul Woo, aka the nicest person in the world) has indicated that most employers will not put as much emphasis on grades as students believe they will, however I am very skeptical about this. Can you comment on the importance of grades given the school's reputation for pumping out outstanding lawyers. How did people fare who were below median (me)? How much would a great interview and solid resume and work experience counter sub-median grades?

Bump on Question.

Really depends on the economy. Last year's OCI was a very bad scene at all law schools, compared to normal.

By the time you hit OCI in a year, who knows? In the past, those in bottom quarter could find lower Vault firms.

Just do the best you can as a 1L, and figure out where to bid come OCI. News from this year's OCI should filter out in a month or two.

[remotelyfeasible]

Anyone live at the Amli 900 apartments in south loop? Went there today to tour with my wife and my leasing agent said they have a bunch of UofC law students there. Thoughts on the place?

I knew a few people that lived there last year. Unsure what they thought of it, and they've since graduated.

Really, I'm just confirming that the agent wasn't lying when she suggested other U of C Law students lived there.

[UChicagoStudent]

Can you comment on how important grades are while interviewing out of U of C? I'm speaking specifically to firms outside of the V30.

Career services (via Paul Woo, aka the nicest person in the world) has indicated that most employers will not put as much emphasis on grades as students believe they will, however I am very skeptical about this. Can you comment on the importance of grades given the school's reputation for pumping out outstanding lawyers. How did people fare who were below median (me)? How much would a great interview and solid resume and work experience counter sub-median grades?

Bump on Question.

Really depends on the economy. Last year's OCI was a very bad scene at all law schools, compared to normal.

By the time you hit OCI in a year, who knows? In the past, those in bottom quarter could find lower Vault firms.

Just do the best you can as a 1L, and figure out where to bid come OCI. News from this year's OCI should filter out in a month or two.

I heard last year was a bloodbath (I'm a 2L, BTW). I was wondering if any students below median got jobs in markets where they were hoping. I understand that hiring has picked up a bit for the summer of 2011, but I am curious how firms handled students in the class of 2011 who were below median. Did you see many/any students with less than stellar grades but greater than average resumes and interviewing skills ending up with quality jobs?

[remotelyfeasible]

I heard last year was a bloodbath (I'm a 2L, BTW). I was wondering if any students below median got jobs in markets where they were hoping. I understand that hiring has picked up a bit for the summer of 2011, but I am curious how firms handled students in the class of 2011 who were below median. Did you see many/any students with less than stellar grades but greater than average resumes and interviewing skills ending up with quality jobs?

I was class of 2010, so not a great source for last year's OCI. The word bloodbath was definitely thrown around a lot. I'm sure a couple students below median got jobs where they wanted, but it wasn't the normal.

I assume you are a rising 2L, judging by the question. I would recommend sending out a lot of resumes prior to OCI if you are below median to secondary markets you have an interest in or connection to. There's nothing to lose by doing so, since you can always cancel those callbacks if you get a summer offer through OCI. Obviously, hopefully you get a good job through OCI, and judging by big firm hiring targets for this summer compared to last, it should be very possible, but it can't hurt to have a few extra interviews, if possible.

[UChicagoStudent]

I heard last year was a bloodbath (I'm a 2L, BTW). I was wondering if any students below median got jobs in markets where they were hoping. I understand that hiring has picked up a bit for the summer of 2011, but I am curious how firms handled students in the class of 2011 who were below median. Did you see many/any students with less than stellar grades but greater than average resumes and interviewing skills ending up with quality jobs?

I was class of 2010, so not a great source for last year's OCI. The word bloodbath was definitely thrown around a lot. I'm sure a couple students below median got jobs where they wanted, but it wasn't the normal.

I assume you are a rising 2L, judging by the question. I would recommend sending out a lot of resumes prior to OCI if you are below median to secondary markets you have an interest in or connection to. There's nothing to lose by doing so, since you can always cancel those callbacks if you get a summer offer through OCI. Obviously, hopefully you get a good job through OCI, and judging by big firm hiring targets for this summer compared to last, it should be very possible, but it can't hurt to have a few extra interviews, if possible.

Thanks for the info.

While I'm picking your brain, do you have any idea where to look to determine the approximate breakdown of around where I am ranked in the class. I still can't figure out how tight the numerical distribution of grades is.

I understand that a 177 (maybe 177.1 with LRW factored in) is the median. To the best of my knowledge, a 178+ the top 40%, 179.5+ is top 20%? Accordingly a 176 would be bottom 40%, and a ~174.5 is bottom 20%?

That seems a lot looser of a distribution than I originally anticipated, with only 40% of the class is within the 176-178 range.

[remotelyfeasible]

Thanks for the info.

While I'm picking your brain, do you have any idea where to look to determine the approximate breakdown of around where I am ranked in the class. I still can't figure out how tight the numerical distribution of grades is.

I understand that a 177 (maybe 177.1 with LRW factored in) is the median. To the best of my knowledge, a 178+ the top 40%, 179.5+ is top 20%? Accordingly a 176 would be bottom 40%, and a ~174.5 is bottom 20%?

That seems a lot looser of a distribution than I originally anticipated, with only 40% of the class is within the 176-178 range.

Well, they changed the grading of LRW for c/o 2011 onwards, and I don't really know the curve for that, in terms of how many A's they give out.

I would estimate median is actually more like 177.2-177.5. The median for any given class is 177, but the mean will tend to be higher than that, with something like 45% of grade being above a 177 and 35% of grades being below a 177. Also, the fact LRW's mean is probably more like 179 would skew class GPA up about 0.2.

My guesses: (These are for after 1L only. All numbers will get larger when transfers are added, in 2L/3L seminar grades get mixed in.)
Bottom 20%: 175
Bottom 40%: 177
Top 40%: 178
Top 20%: 179.4
Top 10%: 180