UVA Law Students Taking Questions Forum

[whats an updog]

Do you mean that the median and 25% cut off have changed for some other reason or do you just mean the actual numbers naturally fluctuate somewhat every year?

[rhododactylos]

Do you mean that the median and 25% cut off have changed for some other reason or do you just mean the actual numbers naturally fluctuate somewhat every year?

The median won't be changed, but the top 25 (not 25%--VLR invites the 25 highest GPAs in the rising 2L class) will likely be lower because the class size was cut. When the class size was 360 you had to be in the top 6.9% to grade on. Now at 300 you only have to be in the top 8.3%, which is likely to be a couple GPA points lower.

[whats an updog]

Do you mean that the median and 25% cut off have changed for some other reason or do you just mean the actual numbers naturally fluctuate somewhat every year?

The median won't be changed, but the top 25 (not 25%--VLR invites the 25 highest GPAs in the rising 2L class) will likely be lower because the class size was cut. When the class size was 360 you had to be in the top 6.9% to grade on. Now at 300 you only have to be in the top 8.3%, which is likely to be a couple GPA points lower.

Yeah, I got that, I meant in reply to sprezz. I gotta learn to quote better

[sprezz]

median and top 25% both changed before the class cut because 1Ls can take X number of credits at a higher curve spring 1L year. the first year they did the new grading policy was also the first year they changed the template for your "OGI transcript" -- it used to say "generally the cut off for top 25% is 3.48", but that was no longer true so they cut it out. the median nominally hasn't changed, but the grade inflation due to the new grading policy creeps in before OGI proper and so it'll adjust some too. which is all to say that yes, the cutoff will drop, but no, using a class rank estimator can't tell us by how much because to pull the lever on the class rank estimator we have to feed it inputs that are pure guesses. still, 3.7 is right-ish.

[whats an updog]

got it - i'm not in any danger of grading on to LR, just was wondering about the change to general median/cut offs. i imagine that the minor grade inflation of two electives won't have a huge effect on the historical guesstimations.

[Tgoin]

How indicative are the leaked class of 15 data at the end of 2L for grades of class 16 and 17? That one shows 3.48 being 40%, which is kind of scary

[uvheylaw]

How indicative are the leaked class of 15 data at the end of 2L for grades of class 16 and 17? That one shows 3.48 being 40%, which is kind of scary

Nobody knows for sure, but why would they be any different? The inflated median grading system is the same as it was then. 3.48 as top 40% after two years sounds about right. 3.4+ is median 2L/3L

[sprezz]

it'll be pretty accurate, but again remember it's just a snapshot at that point in time (end of 2L). it may shift upwards a bit more after the next 2 semesters, but not by nearly as much as the gap between 1L and 2L

also this doesn't really matter aside from it being a curious bit of trivia that pulls the curtain back on the institution we have in common for olds like me and a very dicey forecasting tool for impatient 1/2Ls like a-few-years-ago-me. 90% of the lawyers hiring you are real dumb at interpreting numbers and 100% of them have no incentive to "solve" the curve. at OGI, they'll get your resume + your classmates' resumes and that's the sample that they care about. for mass mailing, it's all a clusterfuck anyway. hell, the median GPA at the hometown not-T14 of your secondary market likely has a bigger impact on how they perceive your transcript than their familiarity with UVA's curve (after all, they're not invested enough in UVA as a pipeline to show up for OGI, you think they remember what a poorly formatted ATL data leak said?)

[Yardbird]

Do you mean that the median and 25% cut off have changed for some other reason or do you just mean the actual numbers naturally fluctuate somewhat every year?

The median won't be changed, but the top 25 (not 25%--VLR invites the 25 highest GPAs in the rising 2L class) will likely be lower because the class size was cut. When the class size was 360 you had to be in the top 6.9% to grade on. Now at 300 you only have to be in the top 8.3%, which is likely to be a couple GPA points lower.

This assumes that the “class drop” occurs over individuals who would otherwise be evenly distributed in the class. It’s still the top 25 in the class and that is unlikely to change compared to the top 25 of the rising 3L class. I will agree that the cutoffs for top 25% and top 33% will likely be slightly lower since they catch more of the class that likely will be closer to median than large classes given the class size, but there is no statistical reason why the top 25 students (8.9%) wouldn’t perform just as well as previous years. My bet would be a cutoff around 3.70-3.72.

Also, I believe the rising 3L cutoff is at least a 3.72 since I have a friend who missed law review and had a 3.71.

[anon sequitur]

What do profs do for paper-only classes, in terms of comments on the paper? If I ask to get my paper back is it just gonna say "B+" on it, or do they actually say something?

[sprezz]

i've taken a bunch of paper classes, and the profs that generate insight usually email the paper/comments to you without you asking. the ones that don't do that, yeah you're probably just getting the letter grade with like a sentence description and maybe one track changes comment. ymmv

[whats an updog]

If you get callbacks from OGI, they usually happen on weekdays in September?

[First Offense]

If you get callbacks from OGI, they usually happen on weekdays in September?

Late August to early September generally with notable exceptions.

[Br3v]

CB tend to be weekdays beginning that second week of OGI (most of your interviews will likely be the first week) up through the first weeks of classes.

[jkpolk]

i've taken a bunch of paper classes, and the profs that generate insight usually email the paper/comments to you without you asking. the ones that don't do that, yeah you're probably just getting the letter grade with like a sentence description and maybe one track changes comment. ymmv

fwiw, I never got a paper back. Always just the grade on SIS. If it's a small class, and you care that much about the prof's opinion, I'm sure he/she would be happy to chat.

[TasmanianToucan]

Hey y'all forgive me for interjecting with something pretty unimportant:

Is the keg no longer a thing?

[UVAIce]

Hey y'all forgive me for interjecting with something pretty unimportant:

Is the keg no longer a thing?

Yeah. It's part of a general reform across the University to not glamorize the use of alcohol. I think the actual rule is no alcohol on grounds until after 4:30 (?). The rule even applies to the faculty.

[cornerstone]

Hey y'all forgive me for interjecting with something pretty unimportant:

Is the keg no longer a thing?

Yeah. It's part of a general reform across the University to not glamorize the use of alcohol. I think the actual rule is no alcohol on grounds until after 4:30 (?). The rule even applies to the faculty.

You might be right about the technical rule, but the law school had been given an exception for a long time. Then Dean Mahoney (on his way out in a year) decided to take "proactive" steps to align the law school with changes on main grounds (quote from Mahoney in the Law Weekly addressing the whole thing in April, months after the changes were underway). However, Darden still gets to have their keg, probably because of the whole Darden vs. Sullivan fiasco a while back.

[swampman]

Hey y'all forgive me for interjecting with something pretty unimportant:

Is the keg no longer a thing?

Yeah. It's part of a general reform across the University to not glamorize the use of alcohol. I think the actual rule is no alcohol on grounds until after 4:30 (?). The rule even applies to the faculty.

They actually got rid of it? Last semester they just moved it to Fridays. Which is basically the same as getting rid of it, because who wants to be at the law school at 5pm on a Friday, but still.

[cornerstone]

I've heard next semester it will be once a month

[rhododactylos]

Hey y'all forgive me for interjecting with something pretty unimportant:

Is the keg no longer a thing?

I don't see anything unimportant about that interjection.

Also, Jeffries isn't teaching Federal Courts this fall. Is it a bad idea to gamble that he'll be teaching it in 2016-17, or should I maybe just take it with Nelson this year?

[whats an updog]

Hey y'all forgive me for interjecting with something pretty unimportant:

Is the keg no longer a thing?

Yeah. It's part of a general reform across the University to not glamorize the use of alcohol. I think the actual rule is no alcohol on grounds until after 4:30 (?). The rule even applies to the faculty.

You might be right about the technical rule, but the law school had been given an exception for a long time. Then Dean Mahoney (on his way out in a year) decided to take "proactive" steps to align the law school with changes on main grounds (quote from Mahoney in the Law Weekly addressing the whole thing in April, months after the changes were underway). However, Darden still gets to have their keg, probably because of the whole Darden vs. Sullivan fiasco a while back.

Can you elaborate on the fiasco? I always wonder how people know so much about school politics or whatever and I remain so oblivious.

Also, Jeffries isn't teaching Federal Courts this fall. Is it a bad idea to gamble that he'll be teaching it in 2016-17, or should I maybe just take it with Nelson this year?

I liked Nelson a lot for CivPro - is Jeffries the obvious better choice for Federal Courts?

[North]

Jeffries is worth waiting for, imo, especially if you've already had Nelson.

[rhododactylos]

Jeffries is worth waiting for, imo, especially if you've already had Nelson.

It's actually the other way around--I've had (and really liked) Jeffries but have not yet taken Nelson, and Nelson isn't teaching his usual Legislation class in Spring '16. So it's a tough call. If I wait for Jeffries I'll also be gambling that Nelson will be back teaching Legislation in Spring '17 so that I'll have the opportunity to take a class with him too. (Yeah, I have too much time on my hands.)

[lookingin]

Has anyone taken a particularly interesting/fun seminar in ethical values? So many sections of it, not sure which ones to consider