GULC Students Taking Questions Forum

[Hand]

Hey guys: DeLaurentis/LRW question...

For the Spring semester, we have an Appellate Brief due in March, a Pro Bono Project ongoing throughout April, and a Take-Home Exam due on April 24th. Is the take home exam the only one of these that actually counts toward the final grade?

Yes, but the others go to "participation." Unless LRW has changed radically since last year.

Word on the street is that you'd better take your oral argument on the spring brief seriously, given that you'll be judged harshly by a bunch of unfriendly 2Ls

[usn26]

Word on the street is that you'd better take your oral argument on the spring brief seriously, given that you'll be judged harshly by a bunch of unfriendly 2Ls

Yeah it's an unwritten rule that 50% of the participation grade is how dumb/smart* you looked to the 2L judges at the oral args.

*Bear in mind that this has no correlation to the content of your statements or your knowledge of the law. Plan accordingly.

[EzraFitz]

And in general, take semester 2 seriously. I've seen (and experienced) grades go from near perfect after semester one to median or below in semester two, specifically in LRW.

[call-me-bubbles]

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[Hand]

There have probably been a lot of scholarship questions, and I know this is all hypothetical, but here's another:

Waiting to hear about financial aid from Georgetown, and I'm not expecting much since GULC's notoriously stingy. However, it really is my first choice for various reasons, and I am really excited about the prospect of attending. I've been accepted to UVA (financial aid pending here, as well), Cornell (50% scholarship), and WUSTL (50% scholarship, hoping to negotiate to get that even higher because of Cornell's recent offer), and waiting to hear back on admissions decisions from the rest of the T-14 schools I applied to.

To those of you who are already at GULC and have been through this all before, do you have any advice or predictions? I know very, very few students get near-full-scholarships at Georgetown, but I truly want to attend and am hoping I can use my acceptance at higher-ranked schools (and hopefully more scholarship offers coming soon) to squeeze a significant chunk of money out of GULC. If I attend, I'll also be doing a dual-degree program through the School of Foreign Service, for what that's worth (demonstrates "commitment" to Georgetown, maybe?), and I'm waiting to hear about financial aid for that but have a little more hope there since the specific program is well-funded.

Argh, this is all so nerve-wracking! Thanks for answering our questions!

They'll probably low-ball you at first, and you'll likely have to keep negotiating for several rounds to get a good deal (although they also do surprising things sometimes, and make good offers right away to people not getting a lot of money elsewhere). Start negotiating with other schools now if GULC is your first choice, so you'll end up with maximum leverage.

[usn26]

If I attend, I'll also be doing a dual-degree program through the School of Foreign Service, for what that's worth (demonstrates "commitment" to Georgetown, maybe?)

Hopefully others disagree with me, but I'd think the dual degree is a liability in negotiations. SFS is a program you're not going to be able to replicate at UVA or Cornell. If I'm admissions I'm thinking less "really wants to be here so I'll give him money" and more "SFS is probably worth a premium in law school tuition." Maybe makes a commitment to attend at X scholarship level more credible, but also makes the threat to bail less credible.

[buckiguy_sucks]

If I attend, I'll also be doing a dual-degree program through the School of Foreign Service, for what that's worth (demonstrates "commitment" to Georgetown, maybe?)

Hopefully others disagree with me, but I'd think the dual degree is a liability in negotiations. SFS is a program you're not going to be able to replicate at UVA or Cornell. If I'm admissions I'm thinking less "really wants to be here so I'll give him money" and more "SFS is probably worth a premium in law school tuition." Maybe makes a commitment to attend at X scholarship level more credible, but also makes the threat to bail less credible.

yeah the name of their game is how little money can we give you to go here and if you have more than the normal reason to go here they'll only conclude they can give you less to get you to go here

[call-me-bubbles]

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[buckiguy_sucks]

If I attend, I'll also be doing a dual-degree program through the School of Foreign Service, for what that's worth (demonstrates "commitment" to Georgetown, maybe?)

Hopefully others disagree with me, but I'd think the dual degree is a liability in negotiations. SFS is a program you're not going to be able to replicate at UVA or Cornell. If I'm admissions I'm thinking less "really wants to be here so I'll give him money" and more "SFS is probably worth a premium in law school tuition." Maybe makes a commitment to attend at X scholarship level more credible, but also makes the threat to bail less credible.

yeah the name of their game is how little money can we give you to go here and if you have more than the normal reason to go here they'll only conclude they can give you less to get you to go here

Ok, that makes sense. At this point, GULC isn't actually aware of my application to the dual-degree program. (When I initially applied to GULC and got accepted, I hadn't fully decided whether or not to apply to the dual-degree program, so I didn't mark it on the app, and I didn't mention it anywhere in any of my PS or optional essays.) The SFS program is aware that I've already been accepted to the law program, but their admissions and financial aid thing are completely separate. But when I do start negotiating, I'll definitely avoid mentioning the SFS thing now.

I'm certainly no negotiating expert and I may deploy it in a final push (say you've repeatedly asked for X amount and they've gotten you close but not quite there and you can say as USN suggested like "i really want to go to ur dumb school b/c SFS too but i reaaaly need X amount") but I wouldn't whip it out right off the bat.

[OtisRedding24]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Thanks

[usn26]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Why do you need to stay in your law school city after graduating? What are your other options?

[m052310]

Anybody have opinions about the PILF program they would care to share? Is it worth it? Pros and cons?

[usn26]

Anybody have opinions about the PILF program they would care to share? Is it worth it? Pros and cons?

You mean PIF?

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... rogram.cfm

[buckiguy_sucks]

Anybody have opinions about the PILF program they would care to share? Is it worth it? Pros and cons?

You mean PIF?

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... rogram.cfm

I assume they mean loan forgiveness

[OtisRedding24]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Why do you need to stay in your law school city after graduating? What are your other options?

Personal reasons. My SO is moving with me and leaving a good job so the deal we made is we won't move again after school. Also considering Fordham, UNC (in state), Boulder, Tulane.

[m052310]

Anybody have opinions about the PILF program they would care to share? Is it worth it? Pros and cons?

You mean PIF?

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... rogram.cfm

I do mean PIF.

[Glasseyes]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Thanks

I doubt anyone can accurately quantify the "toughness" of the PI market here, but consider the following:

- DC probably has more NGO's and government jobs than any city in the country. I doubt going to a smaller market and competing for far fewer PI jobs would be that much easier.

- GULC really does prioritize PI, with a dedicated PI career service office (OPICS), a buttload of clinics in assorted flavors, and a lot of experiential opportunities during the semester beyond just clinic (if there's an NGO you want to work for, do a semester externship and make contacts, or do one of the placement-type practicums). There's also Section 3, which is the haven of all the policy-minded save the world types, and they all seem to develop a pretty tight bond after 1L, so there's that too.

[buckiguy_sucks]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Thanks

I doubt anyone can accurately quantify the "toughness" of the PI market here, but consider the following:

- DC probably has more NGO's and government jobs than any city in the country. I doubt going to a smaller market and competing for far fewer PI jobs would be that much easier.

- GULC really does prioritize PI, with a dedicated PI career service office (OPICS), a buttload of clinics in assorted flavors, and a lot of experiential opportunities during the semester beyond just clinic (if there's an NGO you want to work for, do a semester externship and make contacts, or do one of the placement-type practicums). There's also Section 3, which is the haven of all the policy-minded save the world types, and they all seem to develop a pretty tight bond after 1L, so there's that too.

Hand probably has some pretty good insight on local PI gigs but I have to imagine with the fed cut off these jobs are only going to get harder.


Beside that given OPs stated law school options I can't imagine we're talking GULC for free here and taking on debt to go GULC for DC PI doesn't strike me as a wise decision

[usn26]

Anybody have opinions about the PILF program they would care to share? Is it worth it? Pros and cons?

You mean PIF?

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... rogram.cfm

I do mean PIF.

Yeah, it's worth it. Costs are nil, time/effort/curriculum requirements are minimal. I think the networking component is great (which you could perfectly well do on your own at GULC, but I - and I assume many/most people - probably wouldn't reach out to people on my own, but having a direct connection made to someone who does what you want to do makes life much easier). It's a good group of people, the advising is better and more accessible than most at GULC, and they give you cookies. If you're PI-minded there's really no reason not to do it.

[usn26]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Why do you need to stay in your law school city after graduating? What are your other options?

Personal reasons. My SO is moving with me and leaving a good job so the deal we made is we won't move again after school. Also considering Fordham, UNC (in state), Boulder, Tulane.

If any of those options are free I'd probably go with that. Otherwise, depending on how much you trust IBR/PSLF to be around for you, GULC would be fine. Given the new administration and IBR/PSLF being terrible policy anyway I wouldn't feel great about going to Georgetown planning to do LRAP (although I am, I don't feel great, I did it anyway, and would do it again). *IF* the LRAP deal holds until your debt is forgiven it's a really fantastic deal though. If if if if if.

Job-wise, a lot depends on what kind of PI you mean. But there are a LOT of PI jobs in the DMV.

[call-me-bubbles]

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[Hand]

Asking for clarification: PILS is super competitive, comes with a scholarship, and all PILS are automatically enrolled in the PIF program. But it looks like it is also possible to be part of the PIF program without being a PILS. It says on the website that applications to PIF will be available on the accepted students' website and will be due the summer before starting 1L. Does anyone know how competitive PIF (not PILS) is? Also, thoughts on PIF vs. Global Law Scholars? Is it possible to do both? I'm interested in international public interest law and policy, so both sound like great programs to me. I'll probably apply to both just for the hell of it, but if anyone has any personal experience or second-hand insight on Global Law Scholars, that would also be great.

Last question for now: Is it possible to do PIF and be in Section 3? From previous comments, it sounds like it, but I know that GLS and Section 3 are mutually exclusive for scheduling reasons, for example.

tl;dr: Soliciting more thoughts/info on PIF and GLS.

(1) I'm pretty sure PIF and GLS are compatible
(2) Unlike PILS, PIF is not competitive at all - anyone who jumps through the application hoops gets into the program (which is as it should be, given that it only gives you an additional advisor and networking opportunities, along with some moderately informative events, and cookies)
(3) PIF and section 3 are compatible, unlike GLS and section 3
(4) I know you didn't ask, but like usn said above, PIF is totally worth the minimal effort it requires to get in if you're at all considering a public interest career

[call-me-bubbles]

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[Gray]

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[OtisRedding24]

Considering attending GULC this fall. Going the LRAP/public interest route.

I need to stay and work in the city that I go to school in after graduation. I hear the public interest job market in DC is really tough. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share?

Why do you need to stay in your law school city after graduating? What are your other options?

Personal reasons. My SO is moving with me and leaving a good job so the deal we made is we won't move again after school. Also considering Fordham, UNC (in state), Boulder, Tulane.

If any of those options are free I'd probably go with that. Otherwise, depending on how much you trust IBR/PSLF to be around for you, GULC would be fine. Given the new administration and IBR/PSLF being terrible policy anyway I wouldn't feel great about going to Georgetown planning to do LRAP (although I am, I don't feel great, I did it anyway, and would do it again). *IF* the LRAP deal holds until your debt is forgiven it's a really fantastic deal though. If if if if if.

Job-wise, a lot depends on what kind of PI you mean. But there are a LOT of PI jobs in the DMV.

Thanks for your response. My issue with taking the full ride is it's still like $80K in loans for COL, with a much worse LRAP.

Best case dream scenario is ACLU, NAACP (I know). But also really interested in criminal defense and would be happy to go the public defender route.