Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[MT Cicero]

Do we have to get an official transcript to scan and send to potential 1L summer employers?

Every potential employer/judge/whatever only expected my unofficial transcript, but obviously anecdotal.

Also, if you hit the "print" button on your unofficial transcript, the option comes up to save as a PDF (in the print window). I almost printed and scanned but stumbled upon this instead.

[rinkrat19]

Do we have to get an official transcript to scan and send to potential 1L summer employers?

Every potential employer/judge/whatever only expected my unofficial transcript, but obviously anecdotal.

Also, if you hit the "print" button on your unofficial transcript, the option comes up to save as a PDF (in the print window). I almost printed and scanned but stumbled upon this instead.

I don't know about macs, but on PCs you can install a free print driver called CutePDF that lets you print anything to PDF at any time (it shows up as a printer). Just a good thing to have.

[norkanite]

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[kenwash]

Anyone knows Len (law and social change) has any preference over essay or final exam?

[babblefish]

Len seems to do his best to be impartial on papers and exams, which is perhaps why you have not received an answer to this yet. It is really a mixed bag and up to your preferences. I don't do well on timed exams and prefer to write papers and have that time to study for other exams, but other people would prefer to just have it over in a few hours rather than spending weeks on something.

[HumptyDumpty]

I finished with a 3.15ish. When you say "quite below median" for this GPA, can you explain how so? Looking at http://www.law.northwestern.edu/registr ... ingpolicy/, it doesn't really seem like a B/B+ average is that far below. Do most professors just never give C's, or what?

Secondly, I'm looking at a secondary market on the west coast, where I'm from. Obviously I will work and try and do better this coming semester. But if I don't, how unattainable are firm jobs with this GPA?

[Betharl]

I finished with a 3.15ish. When you say "quite below median" for this GPA, can you explain how so?

Secondly, I'm looking at a secondary market on the west coast, where I'm from. Obviously I will work and try and do better this coming semester. But if I don't, how unattainable are firm jobs with this GPA?

I think "quite below" is really just a matter of terminology. Also, you are at the very top of the "quite below" range. Numbers wise, I think it's accurate in pinning median between 3.3-3.4. Remember, that list is for the end of 1L year, GPA's trend up a little from first semester to second semester as people figure things out and have the opportunity to take uncurved classes.

I know people with 3.3 GPAs were able to do alright at OCI (I think at that point they figure you are around median). Can't speak to secondary markets on the west coast, but I know 3.3s with Vault SAs in Chicago and New York. Just do your best to make yourself an attractive candidate. That includes doing better second semester, but it also might help to try and start networking with people in that secondary market (if you haven't already).

[cookiejar1]

I would heavily suggest that you primarily target the NYC market with median or below grades (hell, slightly above median and below). There are just simply more positions up for grabs in NYC compared to any other legal market in the US, especially when it comes to firms that are not as grade selective. Depending on how secondary your market is it might be extraordinarily difficult to land a biglaw position out of OCI (e.g., I wouldn't be confident landing San Diego big law without very, very good grades). This is not to say that San Diego is extremely selective grades wise (although I'm sure MoFo SD is selective) but rather that there are only a small number of spots in the SD market generally. So while there will be plenty of anecdata suggesting that SD is achievable with low grades (and the GPA CB data will support this!) your chance of striking out in the SD market will still be much higher than NYC.

Depending on how secondary your market is - you'll probably be able to target both during OCI. Targeting NYC/Secondary is definitely doable with how our bidding system works. Targeting NYC/SF, on the other hand, is a dangerous game to play.

In any case, NYC is the greatest city in the world. Get on board, baby!

[zugzwanger]

I would heavily suggest that you primarily target the NYC market with median or below grades (hell, slightly above median and below). There are just simply more positions up for grabs in NYC compared to any other legal market in the US, especially when it comes to firms that are not as grade selective. Depending on how secondary your market is it might be extraordinarily difficult to land a biglaw position out of OCI (e.g., I wouldn't be confident landing San Diego big law without very, very good grades). This is not to say that San Diego is extremely selective grades wise (although I'm sure MoFo SD is selective) but rather that there are only a small number of spots in the SD market generally. So while there will be plenty of anecdata suggesting that SD is achievable with low grades (and the GPA CB data will support this!) your chance of striking out in the SD market will still be much higher than NYC.

Depending on how secondary your market is - you'll probably be able to target both during OCI. Targeting NYC/Secondary is definitely doable with how our bidding system works. Targeting NYC/SF, on the other hand, is a dangerous game to play.

In any case, NYC is the greatest city in the world. Get on board, baby!

NYC is just so-friggin'-prestigious Ohhhh Yaaaaahhhh!

[Dog]

If you choose to live really close to the school (McClurg, Axis, etc.) what can you expect to pay for the cheapest studio you can find plus bills? Trying to decide if it's worth it.

[fishfry111]

[

[Kikero]

I finished with a 3.15ish. When you say "quite below median" for this GPA, can you explain how so? Looking at http://www.law.northwestern.edu/registr ... ingpolicy/, it doesn't really seem like a B/B+ average is that far below. Do most professors just never give C's, or what?

Secondly, I'm looking at a secondary market on the west coast, where I'm from. Obviously I will work and try and do better this coming semester. But if I don't, how unattainable are firm jobs with this GPA?

Many professors don't give Cs, since the curve doesn't require it. More people probably get an A+ than get a C. With that being said, regardless of where you fall in the grade distribution, mathematically a 3.15 isn't that far away below a 3.3. Getting a 3.6 (very doable with the 2nd semester electives) this upcoming semester would put you back above median.

[fishfry111]

W

[Dog]

If you choose to live really close to the school (McClurg, Axis, etc.) what can you expect to pay for the cheapest studio you can find plus bills? Trying to decide if it's worth it.

about $1350 at the Onterie. nice if you can take the smell during the summer (garbage chute).

Really? All the online prices seem to be $1400+ and then with bills on top of that.

[Dr. Filth]

Don't worry about OCI now. Focus on grades and going to law firm events. Even if you are out of a grade range for a firm, you should go. It helps to develop your schtick that you will eventually pass along at OCI. Knowing how to talk to those people is a huge plus. Also free food and alcohol.

[GoCats56]

[G]o[] . . . to law firm events. It helps to develop your schtick that you will eventually pass along at OCI. Knowing how to talk to those people is a huge plus.

+1000. This is one of the HUGE reason to go to networking events. Developing and testing how you will present yourself *before* OCI. What is sparking conversations? What's leading to awkward moments? What gets lawyers excited to talk about their jobs? What questions make them change the subject? Even if you're already good in this sort of setting, I promise it still helps, and when you're one of 50 people in the top 25% of your class competing for a relatively small # of callbacks at Kirkland or Sidley, little edges will matter.

Another benefit of networking that I think gets undersold is learning how firms like to talk about themselves. Even if most large law firms are arguably more or less the same, they all see themselves and talk about themselves in different ways in different language. You want to understand those different languages and self-perception so you can hit the right notes in an interview and seem like a girl who really "gets it" or would be a "great fit" for the oh-so-special-and-unique way that firm does business. By far the best way to learn to speak the language is to go meet with lawyers and get them talking.

Can networking get you connections? Sure, but I think that's probably the least of its benefits. Interviewing and interacting with large firm lawyers is a LEARNED SKILL, and like any other skill the only way to master it is practice. For the approximately 90% of you where being a good fit and a good interview will determine whether or not you get the job, It's absolutely critical that you get that practice.

[Micdiddy]

It's true. Firms don't like hearing "well, you guys are basically all the same, right? I just need one of you to like me."
It's silly after a while talking about how you love Xyz firm because they have XYZ University that really teaches young lawyers practical skills. And then you tell the next firm you love ABC firm for ABC College that teaches young lawyers practical skills. But that's how it goes.

[cookiejar1]

Your Kirkland, Sidley, and Jenner interviewers will all want you to say different things. You need to learn what makes each firm tick. Go to networking events and ask the people you meet why they chose their firm.

[GoCats56]

It's worth pointing out that going to these events is useful even if a) you have no chance at the firms who are there, or b) no firm/office from your target market is there. For example, I spent a lot of time 1L spring meeting and talking with Chicago lawyers, until personal reasons forced me shift my focus to a different market. I guarantee I would not have had the same results at OCI without all the practice chatting up lawyers. Even if you're not learning information about a specific office that will be directly applicable to a future interview, just having practice in that setting is worthwhile.

[applesnoranges]

Does anyone have or knows of someone who has a good Koppelman Con Law outline or a Yuracko Property outline? Seems like both professors have not taught their respective courses in 3+ years and people in our section seem to be looking and cannot find anything. There is one Koppelman outline in the WLC bank apparently, but I was wondering if anyone else can help or know of Alumni that might be able to assist. I would appreciate any help... especially for Con Law which makes 0 sense at the moment (it's scary). Thank you!! Please help.

[Flips88]

Does anyone have or knows of someone who has a good Koppelman Con Law outline or a Yuracko Property outline? Seems like both professors have not taught their respective courses in 3+ years and people in our section seem to be looking and cannot find anything. There is one Koppelman outline in the WLC bank apparently, but I was wondering if anyone else can help or know of Alumni that might be able to assist. I would appreciate any help... especially for Con Law which makes 0 sense at the moment (it's scary). Thank you!! Please help.

PM me your email for Koppelman con law (took it in 2011). His exam is not bad at all.

[zugzwanger]

Does anyone have or knows of someone who has a good Koppelman Con Law outline or a Yuracko Property outline? Seems like both professors have not taught their respective courses in 3+ years and people in our section seem to be looking and cannot find anything. There is one Koppelman outline in the WLC bank apparently, but I was wondering if anyone else can help or know of Alumni that might be able to assist. I would appreciate any help... especially for Con Law which makes 0 sense at the moment (it's scary). Thank you!! Please help.

Don't be too scared about conlaw, I think it's just daunting at the beginning

[applesnoranges]

Does anyone have or knows of someone who has a good Koppelman Con Law outline or a Yuracko Property outline? Seems like both professors have not taught their respective courses in 3+ years and people in our section seem to be looking and cannot find anything. There is one Koppelman outline in the WLC bank apparently, but I was wondering if anyone else can help or know of Alumni that might be able to assist. I would appreciate any help... especially for Con Law which makes 0 sense at the moment (it's scary). Thank you!! Please help.

Don't be too scared about conlaw, I think it's just daunting at the beginning

The professor gives us powerpoint slides that he goes through but 1) they make no sense 2) he's kind of disorganized and I have no idea how to take class notes / understand what's going on. I hope it gets better but things are not looking good atm. :/

[applesnoranges]

Does anyone have or knows of someone who has a good Koppelman Con Law outline or a Yuracko Property outline? Seems like both professors have not taught their respective courses in 3+ years and people in our section seem to be looking and cannot find anything. There is one Koppelman outline in the WLC bank apparently, but I was wondering if anyone else can help or know of Alumni that might be able to assist. I would appreciate any help... especially for Con Law which makes 0 sense at the moment (it's scary). Thank you!! Please help.

Don't be too scared about conlaw, I think it's just daunting at the beginning

The professor gives us powerpoint slides that he goes through but 1) they make no sense 2) he's kind of disorganized and I have no idea how to take class notes / understand what's going on. I hope it gets better but things are not looking good atm. :/

Also, he assigns us about 200 pages of reading a week in which we go over approx. 10% of the material. I know that Con Law is a heavy reading course and I'm not trying to complain about that, but going to class has not helped me understand at all.

[zugzwanger]

Does anyone have or knows of someone who has a good Koppelman Con Law outline or a Yuracko Property outline? Seems like both professors have not taught their respective courses in 3+ years and people in our section seem to be looking and cannot find anything. There is one Koppelman outline in the WLC bank apparently, but I was wondering if anyone else can help or know of Alumni that might be able to assist. I would appreciate any help... especially for Con Law which makes 0 sense at the moment (it's scary). Thank you!! Please help.

Don't be too scared about conlaw, I think it's just daunting at the beginning

The professor gives us powerpoint slides that he goes through but 1) they make no sense 2) he's kind of disorganized and I have no idea how to take class notes / understand what's going on. I hope it gets better but things are not looking good atm. :/

Also, he assigns us about 200 pages of reading a week in which we go over approx. 10% of the material. I know that Con Law is a heavy reading course and I'm not trying to complain about that, but going to class has not helped me understand at all.

Haha again, not to be snarky, but ^^^ don't be too scared of conlaw, I think it's just daunting AT THE BEGINNING