Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[danquayle]

I would be ASTONISHED if its ranked above Hastings and/or Davis. I'm guessing around 60 initially, with an upside of 40 and a downside of 80. It could enter high then slide down and, eventually, back up. That's essentially what UNLV has done.

[Vincent Vega]

I'm not from California, so I can't really speak to it personally, but it seems like the difference in alumni network would be negligible right now, and the reputation is good but not great. If UCI was more established, and truly a top-30 school like it is projected, then I think it would be better to go there if So Cal was the intended market, but as it is now, it's a toss-up. I'll do my best, though, to convince Veritas to choose IU one week from today.

[Spoonmanners]

I like bankhead and think he gives fair assessments on the inherent problems with law schools most of the time. But for some bizarre reason, he has made UCI his golden calf.

I have no problem with someone giving their opinion on problems with the market/school and whatever, but it's an issue when what is no more than a stab in the dark is purported as fact.

[danquayle]

I like bankhead and think he gives fair assessments on the inherent problems with law schools most of the time. But for some bizarre reason, he has made UCI his golden calf.

I have no problem with someone giving their opinion on problems with the market/school and whatever, but it's an issue when what is no more than a stab in the dark is purported as fact.

The stab in a dark isn't even the issue. The issue is portraying that stab in the dark as solid fact upon which to predicate a decision.

Edit: For some reason my mind truncated at "stab in the dark'...

[Bankhead]

Jeez, I'm really getting killed here. I'll come back to this tonight.

[kings84_wr]

haha this thread has gotten out of control.

I am a very biased opinion when it comes to UCI, I live in the town one over from Irvine.

But simply put, Orange county is a metro area of 3 million people, with no major law school. Its fed now largely by USC and UCLA (and S and B to a lesser extent). Many of the attorneys I know in Orange county are ecstatic about UCI. THey would prefer to hire attorneys from Irvine.

Ill say this with the caveat that I love Indiana, but they will get more Big law then we will, simply because of market placement. Hands down they have better profs. Yeah its a risk, but thats the whole point people are going there, to be a founding class. and seriously this risk is about as great as worrying about a 16 seed winning the NCAA tournament.

In California, especially southern CA, the rep of UCI is very good. By adding Chemerinsky they now have an even better pub for their law school.

Yeah there are know parallel examples, but there havnt been any law school with the unique opportunity that Irvine has.

Something else everyone is forgetting, UCI got about the same cash gift as IU did a few years back, and from what I hear they have been doing a good job getting more money since then. Orange county is extremely affluent and there is money to get there.

Now all these arguments are really based on someone wanting California particularly Southern California. In the end, IU will hardly ever really come into competition job wise with UCI.

and yeah its all speculation in the end.

[Bankhead]

I'll just join in your dissent, Kings. To me, UCI seems like a solid package. I'd invest my money in it. It is all speculation, sure. My previous post was advice for Veritas; clearly it was my opinion. I'm not sure why people construed it as that I was implying anything factual. Sure I took a confident tone, but I never came close to trying to imply that everything I said was an objective truth.

To me, it makes no sense to come to bumblefuck Indiana (IU is a great place; the surrounding counties not so much) when you have a half scholarship to a school that places very well in the region you want to work in and in which you can take part in the start of something great. Other than a high USNWR ranking, I don't think Veritas would even have applied to Indiana.

If you clearly don't want to spend any money on your law degree (other than COL of course), IU is a fine choice then I guess.

Heh. I guess the reason I have been pushing this so strongly is how I feel right now. I'd fucking kill to be in So Cal near the beach taking Con with Chemerinsky... Veritas, perhaps you will feel the same way after 6 months of 1L at IU. Or maybe you'll be very happy here.

[Spoonmanners]

I'm sure they allow transfer students. You have consistently sounded pretty god damn miserable here, so I think you should give it a shot. They are shooting for 600 students, so there is plenty of room.

[Bankhead]

I'm sure they allow transfer students. You have consistently sounded pretty god damn miserable here, so I think you should give it a shot. They are shooting for 600 students, so there is plenty of room.

I'm cool, but thanks for the advice.

What part of the "IU is a great place", "best campus in the country", "cool town", "outstanding faculty", "collegial atmosphere", "incredible library", "this turned out to be my best option", do you and Mulliganstew appear unable to ever glean from my posts?

I've actually had a great year. My one complaint are the job prospects. I really feel that Indiana students are not very privileged in that respect.

[Spoonmanners]

I'm sure they allow transfer students. You have consistently sounded pretty god damn miserable here, so I think you should give it a shot. They are shooting for 600 students, so there is plenty of room.

I'm cool, but thanks for the advice.

What part of the "IU is a great place", "best campus in the country", "cool town", "outstanding faculty", "collegial atmosphere", "incredible library", "this turned out to be my best option", do you and Mulliganstew appear unable to ever glean from my posts?

That's so weird that numerous people take it all out of context. There is clearly something wrong with multiple people.

[Bankhead]

I'm sure they allow transfer students. You have consistently sounded pretty god damn miserable here, so I think you should give it a shot. They are shooting for 600 students, so there is plenty of room.

I'm cool, but thanks for the advice.

What part of the "IU is a great place", "best campus in the country", "cool town", "outstanding faculty", "collegial atmosphere", "incredible library", "this turned out to be my best option", do you and Mulliganstew appear unable to ever glean from my posts?

That's so weird that numerous people take it all out of context. There is clearly something wrong with multiple people.

You and Mulligan count as numerous?

[Spoonmanners]

You and Mulligan count as numerous?

No one has thought kings84 hates IU. Just sayin.

[Bankhead]

You and Mulligan count as numerous?

No one has thought kings84 hates IU. Just sayin.

My tone is a bit harsher, that's all. I think mine and kings views on the school match up pretty closely.

I don't hate IU. At all.

[danquayle]

I'm sure they allow transfer students. You have consistently sounded pretty god damn miserable here, so I think you should give it a shot. They are shooting for 600 students, so there is plenty of room.

I'm cool, but thanks for the advice.

What part of the "IU is a great place", "best campus in the country", "cool town", "outstanding faculty", "collegial atmosphere", "incredible library", "this turned out to be my best option", do you and Mulliganstew appear unable to ever glean from my posts?

That's so weird that numerous people take it all out of context. There is clearly something wrong with multiple people.

You and Mulligan count as numerous?

Bankhead just strikes me as disillusioned by the job market. Naturally he blames his law school for that, which is completely fair. I can say all I want about it being the same for .everyone, but the fact is he paid good money to go to Indiana in order to get a job. So far that hasn't panned out.

I was really the same way until I got a job.

[Spoonmanners]

My tone is a bit harsher, that's all. I think mine and kings views on the school match up pretty closely.

I don't hate IU. At all.

Nothing you have said the past few days has changed my interpretation of how you feel about the school. I can tell you it has nothing to do with your feelings about UCI. I guess you could have fooled me about how you feel about the school.

Most schools are pretty transfer friendly, and it is certainly not too late to look into them.

[Veritas]

Thanks, everyone, for the advice and varying opinions. There are many factors I am considering right now.

When I applied to law schools I targeted three markets of greatest interest: California, DC and Chicago. I did not apply to Indiana because of the rank; if I cared about rank I wouldn't be considering UCI so seriously. I like the school a lot and chose to send an application. Plus, Mulligan seemed to really like it and was excited to attend and I hold his opinion in good regard. The scholarship they offered took me by complete surprise, probably be most exciting moment of my cycle.

As the application period continued on I realized I would prefer to just target California, but I also want to maximize my post-graduation employment prospects (which include minimizing debt).

There are somethings about each school that are causing me to have trouble making a final decision. IU reads as more competitive while UCI is extremely collaborative, the price difference ($117k at UCI versus $40k at IU), location preferences (which aren't AS important to me as employment), breadth of curricula (I need to explore before I decide on a specific type of law). IU has established and well regarded clinics where UCI will be starting some. The issue of no alumni base and no employment data (even though I have confidence in the prestigious faculty who have placed their reputations on the line for the school).

I'm excited to visit both and ask lots of questions of the administration and the students.

[Bankhead]

My tone is a bit harsher, that's all. I think mine and kings views on the school match up pretty closely.

I don't hate IU. At all.

Nothing you have said the past few days has changed my interpretation of how you feel about the school. I can tell you it has nothing to do with your feelings about UCI. I guess you could have fooled me about how you feel about the school.

Most schools are pretty transfer friendly, and it is certainly not too late to look into them.

Ok, I think that is very rude. This is the second time you've suggested that I transfer within 3 posts. A few pages back, Mulliganstew expressed this view and PM'd me saying the same. It appears that a bit of dissent is not tolerated on this thread. That's truly unfortunate, considering the topic of this message board is "discuss your law school". I think it sends a very poor message to 0L's when a dissenting opinion is met by "then why don't you transfer?".

Beyond that, I think it sucks that the topic reverted from discussing whether a student should choose UCI or IU to whether my beliefs are in line with an acceptable level of IU worship. If anything, law school, and by that an extension of such on this message board, should encourage a healthy level of dissenting opinion. To attack me because of that seems to encourage conformity, and I don't think that's ever been a good thing.

One last thing about UCI: While much of the reputation of the school is currently in flux (being only in its first year of operation), I see UCI as a great opportunity. I think then that someone who is a "go getter" in life would be able to see that opportunity and run with it based upon due research of the school. Anyone who invented anything unique had to take some risks; they did not simply blindly follow the herd. I think given the product that I see in UCI, I think it's a great risk to take. I think that while Indiana is certainly a solid law school, not attending UCI would be a missed opportunity.

Anyway, I'm done with both talking about UCI and my personal views toward IU.

[kings84_wr]

So New topic:

What the hell are you guys doing for Williams con law class? He has only 2 or 3 exams online with no sample answers, so I have no idea really what he is looking for.

Im assuming he really basically just wants what he teaches, which i know sounds obvious, but he teaches con law so unique from supplements it worried me a bit.

[Spoonmanners]

Yada yada yada.

I skipped over anything that said UCI. I think you said you don't want to talk about another school in this thread, and if true, I agree.

I'd like to point out I have pointed out issues I have had with the school a number of times through out the thread. I don't like our LRW program. At all. Jobs are poor. It took an eternity to get out grades back, which makes it difficult to try and get jobs that don't exist. OCPD needs to be doing more than what they do. Can we get parking for $40K a year? Oh, and getting screwed over Hoff's Crimpro class. That's awesome for 1L's sending out applications based on one semester and torts. Plenty of issues.

Check out my past stuff.

I have certainly not worshiped the school. I love it, but I can see flaws in the school and I have no issue voicing them. I see you doing something completely different, over the past number of months, and I honestly don't know why you attend a place that you have summed up as such a miserable experience.

Maybe it's rude to keep pointing out that maybe you should think about transferring. And maybe you should think about transferring. There are only so many times I can read some terrible comparison to some other school being infinitely better based on some guesstimate of Bankhead.

Feel free to voice your legitimate concerns. I am concerned that you are influencing 0L's who don't realize you are voicing your opinion, and are taking it as fact. I would hate them to spend 3 years and thousands of dollars based on something you are only guessing at in some strongly worded post.

[Spoonmanners]

So New topic:

What the hell are you guys doing for Williams con law class? He has only 2 or 3 exams online with no sample answers, so I have no idea really what he is looking for.

Im assuming he really basically just wants what he teaches, which i know sounds obvious, but he teaches con law so unique from supplements it worried me a bit.

Other conlaw tests. His most recent one is well over a decade old. I feel like Lochner was still good law at the time

I'm working on a sweet ass outline. It should be finished soon, and I'm hoping I can use other teachers tests as assistance to see what could possibly come up. His tests are so limited I'm not putting too much stock into what is available online.

[kings84_wr]

Yeah, im having Hoffman flashbacks. I think I just struggle with the more theory based classes and it worries me a lot.

[Spoonmanners]

Yeah, im having Hoffman flashbacks. I think I just struggle with the more theory based classes and it worries me a lot.

This direction is better: I don't find Williams to be too theory based. No question there can be a lot of tests for the due process clause, but as long as you can work it you should be ok.

I'm having Hoff flashbacks too because there are so few tests. In crimpro we had zero he had done, because he never taught crimpro before. That certainly didn't help.

[Unjust Enrichment]

Williams scares the life out of me. I think I'll do just fine in property when all is said and done, but con law...while I grasp each case just fine individually, I don't seem to be "getting" it from a big picture standpoint at all.

Then again, this many weeks before finals still, there's still time to get it. Fall semester taught me that much.

[Spoonmanners]

Williams scares the life out of me. I think I'll do just fine in property when all is said and done, but con law...while I grasp each case just fine individually, I don't seem to be "getting" it from a big picture standpoint at all.

Then again, this many weeks before finals still, there's still time to get it. Fall semester taught me that much.

It's tough. I've been putting in serious time on an outline, and it is coming along sslllllllllloooooooooowwww. I must have over 30 hours into about 3.5 pages. I am, however, pretty damn confident about those 3.5 pages.

For reference, 30 hours is more than I put into all my outlines last semester.

[jerichogringo]

I am in a difficult position right now. If scholarship is the same, how should I go about choosing between UIUC and IUB? What would you all choose?