UChi Students & Alumni Taking Questions Forum

[Emma.]

Could someone describe UChi's attitude toward studying abroad and international (non-business) law? I'm not seeing a lot about it on their site.

Are there opportunities to intern abroad over the summers?
Are there UChi programs abroad that aren't publicized?
Would one be better off going to a different school if international law is a possible interest?

Thanks!

There are a ton of international internship opportunities. I think anyone who wanted to go abroad during our 1L summer was able to do so.

Do you have a particular area of interest in "international law"? If you've been around on this site at all you should know by now that international law as some big general field of practice doesn't actually exist in the real world, so it would help to know what your specific interests are.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I feel like I should know this by this point, but are there 2 quarter classes 2L and 3L year?

Some, but rarely, I believe (I think Business Associations was one of those... but I don't think you had to be in it both quarters). Clinics are a different animal as well. 2L isn't particularly easier than 1L (especially if on a journal/moot court), but you feel about one million times better about school.


As for the international law aspect, I second Emma's thoughts.

[ajudk8]

Could someone describe UChi's attitude toward studying abroad and international (non-business) law? I'm not seeing a lot about it on their site.

Are there opportunities to intern abroad over the summers?
Are there UChi programs abroad that aren't publicized?
Would one be better off going to a different school if international law is a possible interest?

Thanks!

What is international non-business law? Can you point to job postings for the positions you're talking about?

Thank you Emma, duckmoney, and JollyGreenGiant. I'm thinking specifically of court/tribunal related internships abroad. For example, select Cornell students have the opportunity to clerk for the Conseil d'Etat (France's most prestigious 'court'), but I believe that this opportunity is directly sponsored by Cornell Law. Are there comparable programs at Chicago?

In terms of studying abroad, I read somewhere that UChicago doesn't accept transfer credits from foreign institutions, so spending a semester studying at the Sorbonne, for example, would be impossible. Are there semester abroad opportunities that I'm not aware of? If not, do you think that the lack of these opportunities detracts from your overall experience?

[Emma.]

Could someone describe UChi's attitude toward studying abroad and international (non-business) law? I'm not seeing a lot about it on their site.

Are there opportunities to intern abroad over the summers?
Are there UChi programs abroad that aren't publicized?
Would one be better off going to a different school if international law is a possible interest?

Thanks!

What is international non-business law? Can you point to job postings for the positions you're talking about?

Thank you Emma, duckmoney, and JollyGreenGiant. I'm thinking specifically of court/tribunal related internships abroad. For example, select Cornell students have the opportunity to clerk for the Conseil d'Etat (France's most prestigious 'court'), but I believe that this opportunity is directly sponsored by Cornell Law. Are there comparable programs at Chicago?

In terms of studying abroad, I read somewhere that UChicago doesn't accept transfer credits from foreign institutions, so spending a semester studying at the Sorbonne, for example, would be impossible. Are there semester abroad opportunities that I'm not aware of? If not, do you think that the lack of these opportunities detracts from your overall experience?

I'm not the right person to ask about international internship stuff, but I know there are a lot of opportunities.

As far as studying abroad for a semester: call me a killjoy, but it is law school. If you want to study abroad, defer for a year and study abroad then. I'm not sure how a semester at the Sorbonne is going to be relevant to your US JD.

[Transferthrowaway]

Just chiming in with my two cents --

Your best shot of doing "international law" (which is about as illusory as Space Law or Surfers' Rights Law) is to get a gig with a big firm that has multinational corporations as clients and/or has offices abroad to which you can rotate. UChicago will open the doors to these firms if you do at least moderately well here.

[California Babe]

As far as studying abroad for a semester: call me a killjoy, but it is law school. If you want to study abroad, defer for a year and study abroad then. I'm not sure how a semester at the Sorbonne is going to be relevant to your US JD.

A thousand times this.

[TaipeiMort]

As far as studying abroad for a semester: call me a killjoy, but it is law school. If you want to study abroad, defer for a year and study abroad then. I'm not sure how a semester at the Sorbonne is going to be relevant to your US JD.

A thousand times this.

If you want an international opportunity in law, apply to a capital markets firm and split with London, apply M&A and split with Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing, or apply Energy deals and split with Dubai or Brazil.

If you actually want to do academia internationally, do Born fellowship with the gov, or get some professors to sponsor independent research paper classes and go there during the summer, studying at a university you want to work at by boot strapping.

If you want to do public interest internationally, become an entrepreneur and start an organization after graduation or learn French and be willing to work for free in the right circles/jobs for years.

[Emma.]

As far as studying abroad for a semester: call me a killjoy, but it is law school. If you want to study abroad, defer for a year and study abroad then. I'm not sure how a semester at the Sorbonne is going to be relevant to your US JD.

A thousand times this.

If you want an international opportunity in law, apply to a capital markets firm and split with London, apply M&A and split with Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing, or apply Energy deals and split with Dubai or Brazil.

If you actually want to do academia internationally, do Born fellowship with the gov, or get some professors to sponsor independent research paper classes and go there during the summer, studying at a university you want to work at by boot strapping.

If you want to do public interest internationally, become an entrepreneur and start an organization after graduation or learn French and be willing to work for free in the right circles/jobs for years.

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

[Transferthrowaway]

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

To clarify, I most assuredly want to crush OP's dreams.

(which stems from the shattering of my own dreams of someday practicing Lunar Real Estate law)

[Flash]

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

To clarify, I most assuredly want to crush OP's dreams.

(which stems from the shattering of my own dreams of someday practicing Lunar Real Estate law)

Gingrich 2016.

[ajudk8]

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

To clarify, I most assuredly want to crush OP's dreams.

(which stems from the shattering of my own dreams of someday practicing Lunar Real Estate law)

I’d considered Unicorn Law, but found it a tad pedestrian. After all, PETA has equine civil rights under control. Now, Lunar Real Estate? TOTALLY different story. XferTA --Keep hope Alive!! Note to self: TLS apparently NOT appropriate forum to inquire about emerging or lesser known programs in schools in the hopes of receiving well-informed, well-reasoned, and sarcasm-free advice responsive to said inquiry. Thank you all for your various responses. Asked & answered.

[Emma.]

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

To clarify, I most assuredly want to crush OP's dreams.

(which stems from the shattering of my own dreams of someday practicing Lunar Real Estate law)

I’d considered Unicorn Law, but found it a tad pedestrian. After all, PETA has equine civil rights under control. Now, Lunar Real Estate? TOTALLY different story. XferTA --Keep hope Alive!! Note to self: TLS apparently NOT appropriate forum to inquire about emerging or lesser known programs in schools in the hopes of receiving well-informed, well-reasoned, and sarcasm-free advice responsive to said inquiry. Thank you all for your various responses. Asked & answered.

TBF, I think you actually got this along with the sarcasm.

[TaipeiMort]

As far as studying abroad for a semester: call me a killjoy, but it is law school. If you want to study abroad, defer for a year and study abroad then. I'm not sure how a semester at the Sorbonne is going to be relevant to your US JD.

A thousand times this.

If you want an international opportunity in law, apply to a capital markets firm and split with London, apply M&A and split with Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing, or apply Energy deals and split with Dubai or Brazil.

If you actually want to do academia internationally, do Born fellowship with the gov, or get some professors to sponsor independent research paper classes and go there during the summer, studying at a university you want to work at by boot strapping.

If you want to do public interest internationally, become an entrepreneur and start an organization after graduation or learn French and be willing to work for free in the right circles/jobs for years.

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

Dudes, I'm just saying that generally, international law programs are similar to "entrepreneurship" programs in top business schools. They tell you a lot of stuff that theoretically will help you succeed. However, in reality an "international program" at a school will do nothing for you. Any opportunities post-grad that exist must be bootstrapped and are usually created by creative, focused people with existing effectual reasoning abilities and international language and cultural fluency. The variables that you need to get an international law job aren't given to you by the school.

That being said, Professor Ginsburg is an incredible and respected international/comparative prof who speaks multiple languages and can teach you a lot about foreign legal institutions. Professor Bradford teaches some really great international legal code/ EU law courses. A lot of other professors have integrated international elements into their curriculum in interesting ways as well.

The distinct feature of our international curriculum is that it is ideologically honest and useful-- they don't generally inflate the course offerings with BS courses like some of our larger competitors, and you can be assured that whatever international class you take is going to be substantive and a positive addition to your legal education.

[lsatcrazy]

In the chat yesterday, they more or less claimed that anybody can get into their first choice clinic (and even claimed that there were empty spots in clinics), as well as the corporate lab.
1. Is this true?
2. What is the deal with the corporate lab? Is it just another name for an externship?

[ellewoods110]

In the chat yesterday, they more or less claimed that anybody can get into their first choice clinic (and even claimed that there were empty spots in clinics), as well as the corporate lab.
1. Is this true?
2. What is the deal with the corporate lab? Is it just another name for an externship?

I can't speak for the other clinics, but the one I'm currently doing (Poverty and Housing Law) has openings for 10 and there are only 4 of us. It's also been an incredible experience thus far (just started this quarter).

I haven't done corporate lab, but one of my friends is in it currently. Outside companies bring in projects that the students work on, sometimes directly with the lawyers. I would not call it an externship.

[Haymarket]

A thousand times this.

If you want an international opportunity in law, apply to a capital markets firm and split with London, apply M&A and split with Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing, or apply Energy deals and split with Dubai or Brazil.

If you actually want to do academia internationally, do Born fellowship with the gov, or get some professors to sponsor independent research paper classes and go there during the summer, studying at a university you want to work at by boot strapping.

If you want to do public interest internationally, become an entrepreneur and start an organization after graduation or learn French and be willing to work for free in the right circles/jobs for years.

But OP, I don't want you to think UChicago kids are just all bitter and want to crush your dreams. We have a stellar international law program here, and you can do a joint concentration in unicorn law too.

Seriously, OP, any school that tells you there are awesome opportunities in the "growing field of International Law" is lying to you.

Dudes, I'm just saying that generally, international law programs are similar to "entrepreneurship" programs in top business schools. They tell you a lot of stuff that theoretically will help you succeed. However, in reality an "international program" at a school will do nothing for you. Any opportunities post-grad that exist must be bootstrapped and are usually created by creative, focused people with existing effectual reasoning abilities and international language and cultural fluency. The variables that you need to get an international law job aren't given to you by the school.

That being said, Professor Ginsburg is an incredible and respected international/comparative prof who speaks multiple languages and can teach you a lot about foreign legal institutions. Professor Bradford teaches some really great international legal code/ EU law courses. A lot of other professors have integrated international elements into their curriculum in interesting ways as well.

The distinct feature of our international curriculum is that it is ideologically honest and useful-- they don't generally inflate the course offerings with BS courses like some of our larger competitors, and you can be assured that whatever international class you take is going to be substantive and a positive addition to your legal education.

Stop being insufferable.

[TaipeiMort]

Stop being insufferable.

Pimp kids like you remind me of why I don't visit TLS as much anymore.

[Haymarket]

Stop being insufferable.

Pimp kids like you remind me of why I don't visit TLS as much anymore.

We would all consider it a public service if you stopped altogether, frankly.

[Nelson]

Stop being insufferable.

Pimp kids like you remind me of why I don't visit TLS as much anymore.

We would all consider it a public service if you stopped altogether, frankly.

I'll ask this question of both of you. Which one of you would you say is most representative of UChi law's student body? This is important to my decision as an admitted student.

[Xifeng]

Stop being insufferable.

Pimp kids like you remind me of why I don't visit TLS as much anymore.

We would all consider it a public service if you stopped altogether, frankly.

I'll ask this question of both of you. Which one of you would you say is most representative of UChi law's student body? This is important to my decision as an admitted student.

Neither

[TaipeiMort]

I don't get why I am being attacked in an online forum by PMSing 1Ls for taking some time out of my schedule to provide my opinions in an area I have experience in. I now am starting to buy into what my bros have been saying about your class acting like a bunch of insecure, whiny Daria Morgandorfers.

[JollyGreenGiant]

And to answer the question, there is a niche in Chicago for every type of person. You've got your married folk, your bar review folk, your "engage in consistent intellectual discussion" folk... and others.

I will say... never judge a school from an internet forum. You will never see most of the people who post here, unless you choose to, and the class is diverse enough that you'll find people you want to hang out with.

[California Babe]

And to answer the question, there is a niche in Chicago for every type of person. You've got your married folk, your bar review folk, your "engage in consistent intellectual discussion" folk... and others.

I will say... never judge a school from an internet forum. You will never see most of the people who post here, unless you choose to, and the class is diverse enough that you'll find people you want to hang out with.

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this.

[Nelson]

I will say... never judge a school from an internet forum.

I've been going about this law school decision all wrong. Are there better criteria than judging schools based on their most visible current student posters on TLS?

[California Babe]

I will say... never judge a school from an internet forum.

I've been going about this law school decision all wrong. Are there better criteria than judging schools based on their most visible current student posters on TLS?

Whatever Elie Mystal says about a school anything is 100% take-it-to-the-bank truth.