Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[M458]

Anybody had Professor Silver for Business Associations? She's got some pretty rough-ish CTECs, saying that she doesn't really have her shit together. But taking that section is the only way to keep myself from having Friday classes (for OCI/CB purposes).

Thoughts?

I was planning on taking Silver for the same reason but would be interested in hearing other's input. Last semester was her first one teaching BA at this school in a few years so I feel like that may have been a contributing factor.

Take Litvak. Or, even better, take Corporations. Don't take Silver if you can avoid it. Extremely nice and great outside of class, but grading is very, very subjective (the final exam is supposedly only worth 40% of your grade) and I felt like she was often unclear.

[Micdiddy]

I will also say great things about Litvak. I asked a 2L last year if I should take Litvak and he drunkenly (it was at SFPIF auction) told me never to take her, she was the worst Prof he ever had, the class was awful. Well, I took her anyway and it was fantastic. She boils things down to unbelievably simple concepts and walks through explanations in a very syllogistic manner. She makes things so simple sometimes I think the 2L I talked to felt she was being demeaning, and she also makes semi-unPC jokes and responds to bad student answers without sugar-coating. My class thought she was just hilarious and awesome.
I heard mixed reviews about Silver, but everyone I spoke to had something bad to say about her, even if they ultimately liked her. I also heard bad things about Silver's exam, whereas Litvak's exam was the most straightforward exam I took in law school, almost a copy+paste of her practice exams and felt like a stroll through the class notes (in chronological order).

[bananasplit19]

Or, even better, take Corporations.

If Corporations is uncurved, then TITCR. Waltzed through Corps last semester while my BA friends toiled and toiled, the poor bastards.

But if Corps is curved, then nope. There's not enough material to differentiate students along a curve (much less than BA, from what I hear), and why play roulette with your grades?

[mirroroferised7]

Or, even better, take Corporations.

If Corporations is uncurved, then TITCR.

I have heard this, but my focus is transactional, and I'm going to take other classes along this track. Kagan pretty much told us yesterday that it was a stupid idea to take Corporations if that was my endgame. Is the content pretty much the same? I'm all about avoiding playing roulette with grades. Was this just some kind of weird Admin posturing?

[bananasplit19]

Or, even better, take Corporations.

If Corporations is uncurved, then TITCR.

I have heard this, but my focus is transactional, and I'm going to take other classes along this track. Kagan pretty much told us yesterday that it was a stupid idea to take Corporations if that was my endgame. Is the content pretty much the same? I'm all about avoiding playing roulette with grades. Was this just some kind of weird Admin posturing?

From my (admittedly anecdotal) perspective, you definitely learn more in BA than you do in Corps. But in either class, it's largely setting the foundation of knowledge for corporate law (what is fiduciary duty, differences between S-Corps vs. C-Corps, LLC vs. LLP vs. LLLP vs. whatever, etc.). All the juicy stuff will be in subsequent corporate-track classes, I think. FWIW, I had several classmates in Corps that had considerable corporate experience and were 100% going corporate transactional.

I think the biggest difference is whether you want to take BA on a normal MTW law-school schedule, or knock out Corps each week in one three-hour burst. I gotta tell you, those 6-9PMs...it's a grind.

[Pokemon]

I will also say great things about Litvak. I asked a 2L last year if I should take Litvak and he drunkenly (it was at SFPIF auction) told me never to take her, she was the worst Prof he ever had, the class was awful. Well, I took her anyway and it was fantastic. She boils things down to unbelievably simple concepts and walks through explanations in a very syllogistic manner. She makes things so simple sometimes I think the 2L I talked to felt she was being demeaning, and she also makes semi-unPC jokes and responds to bad student answers without sugar-coating. My class thought she was just hilarious and awesome.
I heard mixed reviews about Silver, but everyone I spoke to had something bad to say about her, even if they ultimately liked her. I also heard bad things about Silver's exam, whereas Litvak's exam was the most straightforward exam I took in law school, almost a copy+paste of her practice exams and felt like a stroll through the class notes (in chronological order).

This. Litvak is an under-appreciated prof. But the lowest grade she gives is not a b+ so be aware of that.

[wojo98]

Or, even better, take Corporations.

If Corporations is uncurved, then TITCR.

I think the biggest difference is whether you want to take BA on a normal MTW law-school schedule, or knock out Corps each week in one three-hour burst. I gotta tell you, those 6-9PMs...it's a grind.

Thanks all - this is similiarly relevant to my interests.

Concluding that BA, ConLaw, CLRII, and possibly Crim is going to be a btch of a fall. Any suggestions for "softer" classes (need two more) to pad the rest of the schedule that don't require absurd bid points?

[Flips88]

I was just looking on Caesar to see if there was anything offered this fall i could recommend and I saw that this class is on the schedule:

Professional Responsibility, Leadership, and Lawyering Success with Professor Clifford Zimmerman and Dr. Michael Robert Durr II

"Recent research shows that being a great lawyer and being seen as having that potential encompasses more than rote knowledge, technical skills, and intelligence (in an IQ sense). Being a successful lawyer necessitates engaging in a wider range of skills, including but not limited to the ability to manage relationships with others, to build leadership skills, to know one's limits and standards, to manage one's emotions, to navigate complex and challenging work situations, and, ultimately, to be in the best position to succeed in an ever-changing job market and through changing career paths.

This course will start with the meaning of professional responsibility, then turn to the concept of Emotional Intelligence and its value both to professional responsibility in general and within various basic aspects of law practice such as interviewing, counseling, conflict management, negotiations, problem solving. Students will have the opportunity to complete an emotional intelligence assessment and use their tailored results to develop sound leadership skill. Through discussion of legal and other research, simulations, and reflection, this course will show students how to build individual professional capability to self-assess skills and abilities, to increase awareness of strengths and weaknesses, and to build and reinforce professional responsibility skills necessary to advance careers and success."

can't imagine taking that and not wanting to kill yourself.

[Georgia Avenue]

can't imagine taking that

could've ended it right there

[igo2northwestern]

If Corporations is uncurved, then TITCR.

I think the biggest difference is whether you want to take BA on a normal MTW law-school schedule, or knock out Corps each week in one three-hour burst. I gotta tell you, those 6-9PMs...it's a grind.

Thanks all - this is similiarly relevant to my interests.

Concluding that BA, ConLaw, CLRII, and possibly Crim is going to be a btch of a fall. Any suggestions for "softer" classes (need two more) to pad the rest of the schedule that don't require absurd bid points?

I actually preferred the 6-9s to the three day schedule. Personally pref I guess.

Insurance Law was pretty good, almost always uncurved, and not a lot of bid points. Apparently insurance is a frequent subject in a lot of legal practices. Jurisprudence usually tops out at 40, and the prof makes it really grade-friendly. The prof actually encourages students to drop, in order to make it 40 students, and outright told students that it would give him an easier time giving out many many As. Heard it was very chill.

Eta: Is this an AJD schedule? Come to think about it, I'm not sure if either of these courses are offered in Fall. Worth checking though.

[Man from Nantucket]

Wow. Hard to see how my comment has been taken this way considering the general sarcastic nature of the list serv over the years. I am definitely sorry if either are you are actually offended at my remark. I would assume that the list serv would be a mess if we all sent emails in when we wanted to buy tickets to games and concerts and other items we wanted to purchase for a discount. I've gotten emails and texts thanking me, list serv tradition requires me to admit it seems, but I'm definitely sorry you two were offended. I have no interest in a list serv war at this juncture in the morning. Good luck getting a ticket!

It's nice that the 3L class has time to be dicks on the listserv and to send each other emails and texts thanking each other for being dicks, but can't, you know, manage to rally more than 50% of the class to fill out their OCI sheets.

[Kikero]

2013 OCI response rate: "40-45%"

2012 OCI response rate: 45% (based on last year's pdf)

2011 OCI response rate: ??? Doesn't look like Career Services released the %, but presumably higher

2010 OCI response rate: 30% (based on last year's pdf)

As was previously mentioned, the submissions weren't really down last year. OCS is just trying to get you guys to submit more this year.

[franklyscarlet]

Wow. Hard to see how my comment has been taken this way considering the general sarcastic nature of the list serv over the years. I am definitely sorry if either are you are actually offended at my remark. I would assume that the list serv would be a mess if we all sent emails in when we wanted to buy tickets to games and concerts and other items we wanted to purchase for a discount. I've gotten emails and texts thanking me, list serv tradition requires me to admit it seems, but I'm definitely sorry you two were offended. I have no interest in a list serv war at this juncture in the morning. Good luck getting a ticket!

It's nice that the 3L class has time to be dicks on the listserv and to send each other emails and texts thanking each other for being dicks, but can't, you know, manage to rally more than 50% of the class to fill out their OCI sheets.

#notall3Ls

Seriously though, the listserv bullshit is like 4 people from each class. This seems a bit silly. Participation is low on those spreadsheets every year because they're a pain in the ass and OCS is pretty bad about reminding people to fill them in.

[09042014]

I never filled mine out. Sorry I'm not sorry

[onionz]

2013 OCI response rate: "40-45%"

2012 OCI response rate: 45% (based on last year's pdf)

2011 OCI response rate: ??? Doesn't look like Career Services released the %, but presumably higher

2010 OCI response rate: 30% (based on last year's pdf)

As was previously mentioned, the submissions weren't really down last year. OCS is just trying to get you guys to submit more this year.

"weren't really down" doesn't make his < 50% comment less true...

[Big Dog]

I never filled mine out. Sorry I'm not sorry

you are excused. (you have paid it forward plenty by your participation on TLS.)

[cookiejar1]

. . . I've gotten emails and texts thanking me, . . .

I'm still trying to imagine how this goes: "Hey man, thank you so much for calling that guy out on the listserv! You're totally right and you deserve some props for putting an end to this kind of properly tagged SPAM. We have NEVER used the listserv to buy/sell tickets that have nothing to do with school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[splitmuch]

Wow. Hard to see how my comment has been taken this way considering the general sarcastic nature of the list serv over the years. I am definitely sorry if either are you are actually offended at my remark. I would assume that the list serv would be a mess if we all sent emails in when we wanted to buy tickets to games and concerts and other items we wanted to purchase for a discount. I've gotten emails and texts thanking me, list serv tradition requires me to admit it seems, but I'm definitely sorry you two were offended. I have no interest in a list serv war at this juncture in the morning. Good luck getting a ticket!

It's nice that the 3L class has time to be dicks on the listserv and to send each other emails and texts thanking each other for being dicks, but can't, you know, manage to rally more than 50% of the class to fill out their OCI sheets.

I'm still trying to imagine how this goes: "Hey man, thank you so much for calling that guy out on the listserv! You're totally right and you deserve some props for putting an end to this kind of properly tagged SPAM. We have NEVER used the listserv to buy/sell tickets that have nothing to do with school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I don't know how to do the fancy screen capture stuff but if you just search for lolla you will see the countless emails from last summer.

[Cobretti]

2013 OCI response rate: "40-45%"

2012 OCI response rate: 45% (based on last year's pdf)

2011 OCI response rate: ??? Doesn't look like Career Services released the %, but presumably higher

2010 OCI response rate: 30% (based on last year's pdf)

As was previously mentioned, the submissions weren't really down last year. OCS is just trying to get you guys to submit more this year.

the way they threw you guys under the bus on that i'm really wondering how down our participation at networking events was. starting to think it was probably just the difference in smaller class size and they just yelled at us to try to increase participation.

[Kikero]

2013 OCI response rate: "40-45%"

2012 OCI response rate: 45% (based on last year's pdf)

2011 OCI response rate: ??? Doesn't look like Career Services released the %, but presumably higher

2010 OCI response rate: 30% (based on last year's pdf)

As was previously mentioned, the submissions weren't really down last year. OCS is just trying to get you guys to submit more this year.

"weren't really down" doesn't make his < 50% comment less true...

True. They were also < 80%, <100%, and <9000%.

ETA: @Cobretti that's probably accurate.

[franklyscarlet]

2013 OCI response rate: "40-45%"

2012 OCI response rate: 45% (based on last year's pdf)

2011 OCI response rate: ??? Doesn't look like Career Services released the %, but presumably higher

2010 OCI response rate: 30% (based on last year's pdf)

As was previously mentioned, the submissions weren't really down last year. OCS is just trying to get you guys to submit more this year.

the way they threw you guys under the bus on that i'm really wondering how down our participation at networking events was. starting to think it was probably just the difference in smaller class size and they just yelled at us to try to increase participation.

Let us forget our differences and join together in deep and abiding hatred of OCS.

[Cobretti]

the way they threw you guys under the bus on that i'm really wondering how down our participation at networking events was. starting to think it was probably just the difference in smaller class size and they just yelled at us to try to increase participation.

Let us forget our differences and join together in deep and abiding hatred of OCS.

i think this is the healthiest resolution we're gonna get, i'm on board.

[M458]

2013 OCI response rate: "40-45%"

2012 OCI response rate: 45% (based on last year's pdf)

2011 OCI response rate: ??? Doesn't look like Career Services released the %, but presumably higher

2010 OCI response rate: 30% (based on last year's pdf)

As was previously mentioned, the submissions weren't really down last year. OCS is just trying to get you guys to submit more this year.

the way they threw you guys under the bus on that i'm really wondering how down our participation at networking events was. starting to think it was probably just the difference in smaller class size and they just yelled at us to try to increase participation.

Let us forget our differences and join together in deep and abiding hatred of OCS.

OCS and Cliff - the common enemies that bind us together.

[Micdiddy]

the way they threw you guys under the bus on that i'm really wondering how down our participation at networking events was. starting to think it was probably just the difference in smaller class size and they just yelled at us to try to increase participation.

Let us forget our differences and join together in deep and abiding hatred of OCS.

i think this is the healthiest resolution we're gonna get, i'm on board.

Our tuition money is paying for that Cliff/Durr class. OUR TUITION MONEY!

[M458]

the way they threw you guys under the bus on that i'm really wondering how down our participation at networking events was. starting to think it was probably just the difference in smaller class size and they just yelled at us to try to increase participation.

Let us forget our differences and join together in deep and abiding hatred of OCS.

i think this is the healthiest resolution we're gonna get, i'm on board.

Our tuition money is paying for that Cliff/Durr class. OUR TUITION MONEY!

Our tuition money + origination fee + interest =

Over/under on how many people take that class: 4.5