Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[Unjust Enrichment]

As for summer start- it seemed to me that I would be putting myself at a slight disadvantage. I would be worried about taking a class as a 1L with predominantly 2Ls. That seems like fish in a barrel to me. Is this not the case?

Hoffmann told us on the first day that 1Ls performed just as well as 2Ls and 3Ls in the previous year's class.

With that said, I got ravaged in the class despite some good grades in other classes, so...my small piece of anecdotal evidence will not encourage you.

On the other hand, I do think that I was at an advantage going into my first fall final, since I had one under my belt and people who started in the fall were on their first exam. And the did turn out to be my best grade.

Cuts both ways, I'd say. In any case, summer start is a lot of fun.

[RMstratosphere]

As for summer start- it seemed to me that I would be putting myself at a slight disadvantage. I would be worried about taking a class as a 1L with predominantly 2Ls. That seems like fish in a barrel to me. Is this not the case?

Hoffmann told us on the first day that 1Ls performed just as well as 2Ls and 3Ls in the previous year's class.

With that said, I got ravaged in the class despite some good grades in other classes, so...my small piece of anecdotal evidence will not encourage you.

On the other hand, I do think that I was at an advantage going into my first fall final, since I had one under my belt and people who started in the fall were on their first exam. And the did turn out to be my best grade.

Cuts both ways, I'd say. In any case, summer start is a lot of fun.

This sparks two questions for me.

If there are ~70 1Ls doing Summer Start (according to the School) are all of these students grouped together in Criminal Procedure? Because what I'm afraid of is being the only, or one of only a few 1Ls, in a mostly 2L class. But, if it's the case that there are 70 1Ls in Crim Pro and fewer 2Ls, that doesn't seem as bad.

Also, would my full OOS scholarship cover the cost of Summer Start?

[kings84_wr]

Not sure on the scholarship question, but all the 1l summer starters are in the same class with 2ls.

And also Im 90% sure that Hoffman won't be teaching crim pro and Crim law in the same semester again, he just was in a rush editing his new crim law text book. So assumedly if it is Crim Pro again, it won't be with Hoff.

[Spoonmanners]

This sparks two questions for me.

If there are ~70 1Ls doing Summer Start (according to the School) are all of these students grouped together in Criminal Procedure? Because what I'm afraid of is being the only, or one of only a few 1Ls, in a mostly 2L class. But, if it's the case that there are 70 1Ls in Crim Pro and fewer 2Ls, that doesn't seem as bad.

Also, would my full OOS scholarship cover the cost of Summer Start?

I dunno what OOS means, but they made it extremely attractive for me to join in the summer. It cost me a few hundred bucks to take torts.

We had ~53 students in the summer. So I guess that would make it more than half 1L's.

To elaborate on what UE said, I never believed that Hoffmann statement. It would have had to take the laziest bunch of 2L's for the grades to be the same.

I would do it, at least so you know what to expect with your other tests. You can learn what is expected of you study-wise and test-wise. If anything it could prevent you from making any serious mistakes. It helped my stress level going into fall semester finals.

[RMstratosphere]

This sparks two questions for me.

If there are ~70 1Ls doing Summer Start (according to the School) are all of these students grouped together in Criminal Procedure? Because what I'm afraid of is being the only, or one of only a few 1Ls, in a mostly 2L class. But, if it's the case that there are 70 1Ls in Crim Pro and fewer 2Ls, that doesn't seem as bad.

Also, would my full OOS scholarship cover the cost of Summer Start?

I dunno what OOS means, but they made it extremely attractive for me to join in the summer. It cost me a few hundred bucks to take torts.

We had ~53 students in the summer. So I guess that would make it more than half 1L's.

To elaborate on what UE said, I never believed that Hoffmann statement. It would have had to take the laziest bunch of 2L's for the grades to be the same.

I would do it, at least so you know what to expect with your other tests. You can learn what is expected of you study-wise and test-wise. If anything it could prevent you from making
any serious mistakes. It helped my stress level going into fall semester finals.

OOS = Out of State

And I share your sentiments regarding 2L's in class. That's what I was afraid of. For me to have really accurate feelings about this I think I'd need to know how many students were in Crim Pro. 100? 90? 75? I find it hard to believe that 1Ls would fair equally well in a class with say, 40 2Ls. If they did, that would seem to signal to me that 2Ls were somehow not any better prepared for school then 1Ls... which is scary in its own right.

I'm still not terribly comfortable with essentially ceding away a grade for experience.

[Bankhead]

Regarding summer start...

Another thing you need to think about is are you going to be comfortable taking 1L classes for a year straight. Starts in June, finishes in May. That's a hell of an endurance race. A lot of my summer starter friends are really burnt out now, and study far less than first semester.

[Unjust Enrichment]

Regarding summer start...

Another thing you need to think about is are you going to be comfortable taking 1L classes for a year straight. Starts in June, finishes in May. That's a hell of an endurance race. A lot of my summer starter friends are really burnt out now, and study far less than first semester.

As a summer starter who is currently burnt out and studies far less than first semester, I honestly blame none of it on summer start. Taking one class, even at an accelerated pace, is not that taxing. The difference between summer start and full-time fall semester is bigger than I can put into words.

[Spoonmanners]

In reality, the schedule is only from early July to the beginning of May.

We had a week and a half break after torts until fall. Then a week for fall break, a month for winter break, and another week for spring break. The schedule was much nicer to not have such a work intensive class during everything else. If you put a good amount of effort towards crimpro in the fall you will do fine.

I'm certainly working less this semester, but there is just less to do. There is less motivation for sure, but I blame that on fall semester.

[RMstratosphere]

Thank you all for the feedback.
What are the benefits/hardships past 1L fall Crim Pro? Easier schedule during 2L which allows for time for journal/clinics/job hunt? Having to take a class with 3Ls during the second year?

[Spoonmanners]

Thank you all for the feedback.
What are the benefits/hardships past 1L fall Crim Pro? Easier schedule during 2L which allows for time for journal/clinics/job hunt? Having to take a class with 3Ls during the second year?

I dunno. They said something like it will make 2nd year way way better scheduling wise. We haven't signed up yet, but we do have more credits. I would be kinda pissed if all the 2L's took it with the 1L's and got great grades

I think it's great knowing work load. You learn what you need to do. And you will normally learn what you are doing wrong. You go in fall knowing more of what you need to do. Plus we did very little work for crimpro. It allowed more time for contracts/drinking/civpro/sleeping/crimlaw/crying/lrw. The schedule still sucked, but I think it was more manageable.

[danquayle]

This sparks two questions for me.

If there are ~70 1Ls doing Summer Start (according to the School) are all of these students grouped together in Criminal Procedure? Because what I'm afraid of is being the only, or one of only a few 1Ls, in a mostly 2L class. But, if it's the case that there are 70 1Ls in Crim Pro and fewer 2Ls, that doesn't seem as bad.

Also, would my full OOS scholarship cover the cost of Summer Start?

I dunno what OOS means, but they made it extremely attractive for me to join in the summer. It cost me a few hundred bucks to take torts.

We had ~53 students in the summer. So I guess that would make it more than half 1L's.

To elaborate on what UE said, I never believed that Hoffmann statement. It would have had to take the laziest bunch of 2L's for the grades to be the same.

I would do it, at least so you know what to expect with your other tests. You can learn what is expected of you study-wise and test-wise. If anything it could prevent you from making
any serious mistakes. It helped my stress level going into fall semester finals.

OOS = Out of State

And I share your sentiments regarding 2L's in class. That's what I was afraid of. For me to have really accurate feelings about this I think I'd need to know how many students were in Crim Pro. 100? 90? 75? I find it hard to believe that 1Ls would fair equally well in a class with say, 40 2Ls. If they did, that would seem to signal to me that 2Ls were somehow not any better prepared for school then 1Ls... which is scary in its own right.

I'm still not terribly comfortable with essentially ceding away a grade for experience.

I'm still not sure I buy the whole 2L outperforming 1L thing. Yes, they have a year more experience, but they also have a ton more on their plates and are much, much less single minded with regard to classes. 1L year all you're thinking about are your classes. 2L year you got moot court, journal, job searches and any other amount of activities you might have gotten involved in.

[agentcom]

I am a big proponent of summer start. I can repeat those considerations if desired. That said, I think that IU could do it much better. Here's what I wish that I would have known going in to summer start. However, the info. below WOULD NOT have changed my decision.

1. Summer starters have to take Crim Pro (an elective) in the Fall. I would have preferred that they offer a required course.
2. Summer starters, by taking one of the two Crim Pro courses are ineligible to take the 4 credit comprehensive Crim Pro class. (I just found out about this and I'm pissed).
3. Summer starters have to take Torts. On the whole, I have heard more negative feedback about Torts than any other class at IU--regardless of your professor. Why?

Why I would do SS anyway:

1. I had already took a year off and was ready to get back into things.
2. I may have taken a Crim Pro class anyway (it's a bar course).
3. I met a ton of cool people.
4. I had plenty of free time to get other aspects of life in order.
5. I was better prepared on HOW to study for law school.
6. I was better prepared on HOW to read cases.
7. I was better prepared on what material can safely be ignored.
8. I was in town for the summer boat trip.
9. The 3 credit Crim Pro class won't significantly affect your GPA since you'll have a bunch of credits.
10. etc. (That's what comes to mind now, but there's more)

[danquayle]

I am a big proponent of summer start. I can repeat those considerations if desired. That said, I think that IU could do it much better. Here's what I wish that I would have known going in to summer start. However, the info. below WOULD NOT have changed my decision.

1. Summer starters have to take Crim Pro (an elective) in the Fall. I would have preferred that they offer a required course.
2. Summer starters, by taking one of the two Crim Pro courses are ineligible to take the 4 credit comprehensive Crim Pro class. (I just found out about this and I'm pissed).
3. Summer starters have to take Torts. On the whole, I have heard more negative feedback about Torts than any other class at IU--regardless of your professor. Why?

Why I would do SS anyway:

1. I had already took a year off and was ready to get back into things.
2. I may have taken a Crim Pro class anyway (it's a bar course).
3. I met a ton of cool people.
4. I had plenty of free time to get other aspects of life in order.
5. I was better prepared on HOW to study for law school.
6. I was better prepared on HOW to read cases.
7. I was better prepared on what material can safely be ignored.
8. I was in town for the summer boat trip.
9. The 3 credit Crim Pro class won't significantly affect your GPA since you'll have a bunch of credits.
10. etc. (That's what comes to mind now, but there's more)

And by the way... if you front load on credits you can drop down to part time your last semester and save a couple thousand dollars. Per-credit tuition is cheaper than the flat law school tuition. You won't lose your financial aid, either.

[superflush]

It also appears that there is some confusion about how a preselect OCI system works: With a preselect system, you submit your materials to the firm and they decide who they want to interview based on that pool of candidates. ...
Example: 30 people bid at IU bid on a Louisville firm. The firm preselects 15 to do screening interviews at IU. Same thing at Vandy and ND. Firm takes 2 callbacks from here, 3 from Notre Dame, 4 from Vandy.

Yea, there were definitely a few posts here that didn't make much sense. Thanks for making that clear for people.

[emc217]

Agreed. Summer start was fantastic. It was a great learning experience and a LOT of fun. I'd highly recommend it for most people. ( ps - Thanks for inspiring me to bring my account back to life, agentcom!)

I am a big proponent of summer start. I can repeat those considerations if desired. That said, I think that IU could do it much better. Here's what I wish that I would have known going in to summer start. However, the info. below WOULD NOT have changed my decision.

1. Summer starters have to take Crim Pro (an elective) in the Fall. I would have preferred that they offer a required course.
2. Summer starters, by taking one of the two Crim Pro courses are ineligible to take the 4 credit comprehensive Crim Pro class. (I just found out about this and I'm pissed).
3. Summer starters have to take Torts. On the whole, I have heard more negative feedback about Torts than any other class at IU--regardless of your professor. Why?

Why I would do SS anyway:

1. I had already took a year off and was ready to get back into things.
2. I may have taken a Crim Pro class anyway (it's a bar course).
3. I met a ton of cool people.
4. I had plenty of free time to get other aspects of life in order.
5. I was better prepared on HOW to study for law school.
6. I was better prepared on HOW to read cases.
7. I was better prepared on what material can safely be ignored.
8. I was in town for the summer boat trip.
9. The 3 credit Crim Pro class won't significantly affect your GPA since you'll have a bunch of credits.
10. etc. (That's what comes to mind now, but there's more)

[Spoonmanners]

Agreed. Summer start was fantastic. It was a great learning experience and a LOT of fun. I'd highly recommend it for most people. ( ps - Thanks for inspiring me to bring my account back to life, agentcom!)

Oh snap, it's like a summer start reunion.

[RMstratosphere]

Agreed. Summer start was fantastic. It was a great learning experience and a LOT of fun. I'd highly recommend it for most people. ( ps - Thanks for inspiring me to bring my account back to life, agentcom!)

Oh snap, it's like a summer start reunion.

--ImageRemoved--

just couldn't resist

[BiteyTLS]

Indiana is going to pay for the flight, hotel and transportation. I received an email today. I'll see you all at Spring Law Day.

[agentcom]

Indiana is going to pay for the flight, hotel and transportation. I received an email today. I'll see you all at Spring Law Day.

Yeah, they're pretty cool like that. For those of you within driving distance: I was able to convince them to pay me a per mile reimbursement last year when I came to SLD.

[Vincent Vega]

Indiana is going to pay for the flight, hotel and transportation. I received an email today. I'll see you all at Spring Law Day.

Same to you! I'm very excited about it.

[Bankhead]

Our class will definitely show you guys a good time at (well, following) SLD.

[agentcom]

Agreed. Summer start was fantastic. It was a great learning experience and a LOT of fun. I'd highly recommend it for most people. ( ps - Thanks for inspiring me to bring my account back to life, agentcom!)

Oh snap, it's like a summer start reunion.

My pleasure

[kings84_wr]

So I lied, Hoff is the Crim pro prof for the summer starters this coming fall. This could be totally false, but i interpreted that it meant the 1l's would be in the class by themselves this semester, and thus wouldn't have to worry about 2l's. I may have totally been wrong, but His class isn't on our course descriptions list at least.

[kings84_wr]

and to add to my above post, what are all the other current 1L's planning on taking next semester?

[Mulliganstew]

and to add to my above post, what are all the other current 1L's planning on taking next semester?

The one class I'm waffling on is whether or not I should take the electronic version of Tanford's Evidence class or not. (I'm going to try to take Copyright and Entertainment law in the Fall concurrently almost for sure and I'm dying to try Ardery's Negotiation class. I'm also considering Professor Scott's Crim Pro: Trial class, but I want to talk to him about my Crim Law final first... heh)

That puts me at 13 credit hours or so. Maybe one more class and a seminar. Or maybe just a seminar. Man this is tough. So much I want to take.

Edit: Probably Internet law with Rose.