Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[cookiejar1]

Why does NU have such rampant grade inflation? Is it because NU has so many A+'s, because a third of a class could conceivably get an A- or above, or a little bit of both? THIS IS WITH A GRADED CLR CLASS TOO.

[bk1]

Why does NU have such rampant grade inflation? Is it because NU has so many A+'s, because a third of a class could conceivably get an A- or above, or a little bit of both? THIS IS WITH A GRADED CLR CLASS TOO.

Because there are uncurved classes and we give A+s. It's not really inflated after 1L compared to other T14s but other T14s tend not to have as many uncurved classes as we do. Other T14s do have other neat things (e.g. UMich has retroactive pass/fails).

[rayiner]

NU's 1L median is typical for T14 schools, but the curve has a minimum number of A+, which means the curve is very spread out. 4.0+ might be 3-4 people after 1L, but 10+ at graduation. Especially considering that transfers don't have 1L grades calculated into the their GPA. That said, some other schools have a lot of inflation too. Coif is probably a bit over 3.9 these days at NU, but Penn and Cornell are probably at 3.8.

[Cobretti]

Next time someone from a firm comes here asking about grades I say we tell them median is 2.8

[Kikero]

Next time someone from a firm comes here asking about grades I say we tell them median is 2.8

[somuchwaiting]

Do Boston firms have a strong presence at OCI? How easy/difficult is it to get into the Boston market coming from NU?

[onionz]

Do Boston firms have a strong presence at OCI? How easy/difficult is it to get into the Boston market coming from NU?

Just a rising 2L myself so not much inside knowledge, but I've asked a similar question once or twice before on this thread and happy to share some knowledge.

By my count, it looks like ~11 firms come to OCI interviewing for their Boston office. Another 4-5 firms coming to OCI have boston offices but aren't officially interviewing for the Boston office - unsure what the protocol there is.

Then there are probably about ~20 other Boston firms worth reaching out to on your own (Mintz Levin, Choate...). I think Career Services sent out a Boston market sheet that does a reasonable job summarizing/listing all the Boston firms at least. My current Boston firm list has ~ 40 firms.

Overall, in terms of "easy/difficult" the one thing I heard consistently is that you just need to be able to show ties since it's a small market. Went to ugrad there, have family, something. The low numbers from NU to Boston are probably more self-selection than they are any sort of failures of the school.

[Cobretti]

If firms ask for our resume before attending their receptions should we be including our GPA on there? This is a firm that is coming to OCI.

[splitmuch]

NU's 1L median is typical for T14 schools, but the curve has a minimum number of A+, which means the curve is very spread out. 4.0+ might be 3-4 people after 1L, but 10+ at graduation. Especially considering that transfers don't have 1L grades calculated into the their GPA. That said, some other schools have a lot of inflation too. Coif is probably a bit over 3.9 these days at NU, but Penn and Cornell are probably at 3.8.

Define a bit

[09042014]

NU's 1L median is typical for T14 schools, but the curve has a minimum number of A+, which means the curve is very spread out. 4.0+ might be 3-4 people after 1L, but 10+ at graduation. Especially considering that transfers don't have 1L grades calculated into the their GPA. That said, some other schools have a lot of inflation too. Coif is probably a bit over 3.9 these days at NU, but Penn and Cornell are probably at 3.8.

Define a bit

3.93 wasn't good enough.

[parkslope]

NU's 1L median is typical for T14 schools, but the curve has a minimum number of A+, which means the curve is very spread out. 4.0+ might be 3-4 people after 1L, but 10+ at graduation. Especially considering that transfers don't have 1L grades calculated into the their GPA. That said, some other schools have a lot of inflation too. Coif is probably a bit over 3.9 these days at NU, but Penn and Cornell are probably at 3.8.

Define a bit

3.93 wasn't good enough.

For Coif? Really?

[Holly Golightly]

Everyone stop giving away secrets.

[Snape]

YES--include your GPA (unless it really hurts you. You are a FREE AGENT. Go out and get the job, contact firms all you want this summer, reach out, share your grades, sell yourself. DO NOT WAIT FOR: Ready, Set, OCI and GO. Following the lead of the admin about OCI like high school juniors following their counselors advice on college applications works for some, but it does not work for plenty and they find out all to late.

This is YOUR job search and you must do what you think is necessary. YES, of course, you can include your GPA or other relevant information that you think will help you get a job. You are a private citizen seeking private employment likely from a private firm.

[09042014]

NU's 1L median is typical for T14 schools, but the curve has a minimum number of A+, which means the curve is very spread out. 4.0+ might be 3-4 people after 1L, but 10+ at graduation. Especially considering that transfers don't have 1L grades calculated into the their GPA. That said, some other schools have a lot of inflation too. Coif is probably a bit over 3.9 these days at NU, but Penn and Cornell are probably at 3.8.

Define a bit

3.93 wasn't good enough.

For Coif? Really?

Yea for coif. There was a very large overlap between Magna and coif last year.

[rayiner]

It fluctuates year-to-year: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5566358. For C/O 2012, magna was inside top 5% and my best guess at coif is right around 3.9. When I started school in 2009, the conventional wisdom was that magna was ~3% and coif was 3.85-3.89. It'll be interesting to see what it comes out for C/O 2014. I think the administration pushes back when magna goes above 4-5% (see '09 and '12), because there are employers who are interested in distinctions inside coif (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9#p5674867).

[parkslope]

It fluctuates year-to-year: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5566358. For C/O 2012, magna was inside top 5% and my best guess at coif is right around 3.9. When I started school in 2009, the conventional wisdom was that magna was ~3% and coif was 3.85-3.89. It'll be interesting to see what it comes out for C/O 2014. I think the administration pushes back when magna goes above 4-5% (see '09 and '12), because there are employers who are interested in distinctions inside coif (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9#p5674867).

And that happened in 2013 as well because the coif/magna lists mostly overlapped, right?

Also, why do employers care about magna/coif, outside of COA clerkships I guess, if offers had mostly been made years prior?

[Micdiddy]

It fluctuates year-to-year: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5566358. For C/O 2012, magna was inside top 5% and my best guess at coif is right around 3.9. When I started school in 2009, the conventional wisdom was that magna was ~3% and coif was 3.85-3.89. It'll be interesting to see what it comes out for C/O 2014. I think the administration pushes back when magna goes above 4-5% (see '09 and '12), because there are employers who are interested in distinctions inside coif (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9#p5674867).

And that happened in 2013 as well because the coif/magna lists mostly overlapped, right?

Also, why do employers care about magna/coif, outside of COA clerkships I guess, if offers had mostly been made years prior?

I doubt they do. But yeah clerkships/academia will probably care. Who knows if some future employer for lateral or in-house will care. probably not, but w/e.

[zugzwanger]

Did you guys see this new D-Rod interview/QA about law school and the market

http://fortune.com/2014/06/09/northwest ... -to-waste/

EDIT: there is really nothing profound in it

[Flips88]

It fluctuates year-to-year: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5566358. For C/O 2012, magna was inside top 5% and my best guess at coif is right around 3.9. When I started school in 2009, the conventional wisdom was that magna was ~3% and coif was 3.85-3.89. It'll be interesting to see what it comes out for C/O 2014. I think the administration pushes back when magna goes above 4-5% (see '09 and '12), because there are employers who are interested in distinctions inside coif (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9#p5674867).

Weren't the cum laude numbers ridiculous for C/O 2013 too? IIRC it was close to 140 people or something.

[rayiner]

It fluctuates year-to-year: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5566358. For C/O 2012, magna was inside top 5% and my best guess at coif is right around 3.9. When I started school in 2009, the conventional wisdom was that magna was ~3% and coif was 3.85-3.89. It'll be interesting to see what it comes out for C/O 2014. I think the administration pushes back when magna goes above 4-5% (see '09 and '12), because there are employers who are interested in distinctions inside coif (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9#p5674867).

And that happened in 2013 as well because the coif/magna lists mostly overlapped, right?

Also, why do employers care about magna/coif, outside of COA clerkships I guess, if offers had mostly been made years prior?

A decent chunk of people will shuffle around the first couple of years. They'll do year at a firm then clerk, or a second clerkship, or try to change firms/markets after clerking, or try to apply for federal government/PI after clerking.

[LRGhost]

Did you guys see this new D-Rod interview/QA about law school and the market

http://fortune.com/2014/06/09/northwest ... -to-waste/

EDIT: there is really nothing profound in it

*vomits*

[futurelawstudent14]

Are you allowed to work during your 1L year? I'm talking <10 hours a week to maintain my well-rounded-ness. I've read somewhere that some schools don't allow this, but I have a friend who is about to be a 2L at a different school where they coach a sport to maintain their sanity/do something besides law school.

[bjsesq]

Are you allowed to work during your 1L year? I'm talking <10 hours a week to maintain my well-rounded-ness. I've read somewhere that some schools don't allow this, but I have a friend who is about to be a 2L at a different school where they coach a sport to maintain their sanity/do something besides law school.

I doubt it, but even if you could, why would you? 1L is THE time that grades matter and you want to take time away from that? Treat studying like a full time job and take the rest of the time to decompress.

[Holly Golightly]

Are you allowed to work during your 1L year? I'm talking <10 hours a week to maintain my well-rounded-ness. I've read somewhere that some schools don't allow this, but I have a friend who is about to be a 2L at a different school where they coach a sport to maintain their sanity/do something besides law school.

Technically the ABA has a rule about it, though I don't remember offhand what it was. I know 2L and 3L year you're "allowed" to work, but 1L you're either not allowed or it's limited to 15 hrs/week.

I'm sure the school wouldn't find out even if you were working and weren't supposed to, but like bjs said, idk why you would want to work during 1L. I didn't put in much studying time during the semester, but even I would have fucking hated working, and I worked fulltime during undergrad. You have plenty of time to work. Take this one semester off.

[onionz]

Are you allowed to work during your 1L year? I'm talking <10 hours a week to maintain my well-rounded-ness. I've read somewhere that some schools don't allow this, but I have a friend who is about to be a 2L at a different school where they coach a sport to maintain their sanity/do something besides law school.

Technically the ABA has a rule about it, though I don't remember offhand what it was. I know 2L and 3L year you're "allowed" to work, but 1L you're either not allowed or it's limited to 15 hrs/week.

I'm sure the school wouldn't find out even if you were working and weren't supposed to, but like bjs said, idk why you would want to work during 1L. I didn't put in much studying time during the semester, but even I would have fucking hated working, and I worked fulltime during undergrad. You have plenty of time to work. Take this one semester off.

I worked through most of 1L this past year. I think the ABA rule is technically 20 hours a week or something. My job was remote and extremely flexible though, so I could do it between classes and at my pace adjusting for how busy I was - I don't think I'd pick up anything that required me to be at a certain place at a certain time.

I'll also admit it probably hurt my involvement with school groups. I think the "NEVER WORK EVER" in 1L is a bit of an overstatement when there are people who put more work in their extra curriculars than I did in my work (and I don't mean ones like moot court, but Follies or SBA) but a cautious approach might be warranted. I waited until about a month or two into school before picking up the extra hours, so I certainly wouldn't start off the year with it. I also completely backed off during finals.