Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions Forum

[03121202698008]

Was looking at the site map on the umich page trying to see if the deposit could be paid online. Clicked on a link for exam tips out of sheer curiosity and saw some sample exam questions. Those kind of blew my mind. Not that I couldn't imagine being able to complete them but I was shocked how subjective they seemed for something that is so important. They were also intimidating in how open ended some were. Never knew what a law school exam looked like before so excuse me if this sounds stupid.

Different professors exams vary wildly. For the most part, there is no right answer you're getting to. Rather they want to see you apply what you've learned to a complex situation and come out with a result.

They are very subjective though. They reflect only your ability to take them...not your knowledge of the law.

[buckilaw]

http://www.blimpyburger.com/combos.htm

What is your favorite burger combo at Blimpy Burger?

[math101]

http://www.blimpyburger.com/combos.htm

What is your favorite burger combo at Blimpy Burger?

My apartment will be across the street from there. I think I will be able to figure out my combo pretty quickly!

On a similar note, which are the 'law school' bars that everyone usually gravitates towards? And what are they like?

[buckilaw]

I went during ASW, but I don't think I got enough patties. When I move up to Ann Arbor the first thing I'm gonna eat is a quint with extra cheese, pickle, and stone ground mustard.

[TheStrand]

http://www.blimpyburger.com/combos.htm

What is your favorite burger combo at Blimpy Burger?

My apartment will be across the street from there. I think I will be able to figure out my combo pretty quickly!

Mine too =)

[betsyanna]

Hello All,

I'm looking for someone to rent my 1 br 950 sq ft condo in the Woodland Mews complex. It's a good size for a married couple, and is a couple miles away from the law school, close to the commuter parking lot and the #7 bus line into town. I lived there while I was at the law school (I'm a 2010 grad) and really liked the location.

Ideally, I'm looking for a renter who would like to stay for 2-3 years, starting in late August/early Sept. If you're interested, let me know and I can send pictures. Or if you're coming for an ASW, I'd be happy to show you the place in person.

[AreJay711]

http://www.blimpyburger.com/combos.htm

What is your favorite burger combo at Blimpy Burger?

My apartment will be across the street from there. I think I will be able to figure out my combo pretty quickly!

Mine too =)

Hmmmm.... mine too

[wolverine2014]

Hello All,

I'm looking for someone to rent my 1 br 950 sq ft condo in the Woodland Mews complex. It's a good size for a married couple, and is a couple miles away from the law school, close to the commuter parking lot and the #7 bus line into town. I lived there while I was at the law school (I'm a 2010 grad) and really liked the location.

Ideally, I'm looking for a renter who would like to stay for 2-3 years, starting in late August/early Sept. If you're interested, let me know and I can send pictures. Or if you're coming for an ASW, I'd be happy to show you the place in person.

I'm a summer starter....can the unit be available in late May?

[lawlcat4179]

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

[Lawlcat]

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

Hello. YOU.

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To answer your question: I'm afraid I don't have any good data on this.

Are you asking Michigan vs. MSU or other schools in the state? I think Michigan is probably your best bet. I'm not sure it's GUARANTEED, but I bet you'd have a pretty damn good shot. Your odds at Michigan are going to be dramatically higher than your odds coming out of anywhere else in state, enough so that I suspect it's worth the tuition.

[lawlcat4179]

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

Hello. YOU.

...

...

...


To answer your question: I'm afraid I don't have any good data on this.

Are you asking Michigan vs. MSU or other schools in the state? I think Michigan is probably your best bet. I'm not sure it's GUARANTEED, but I bet you'd have a pretty damn good shot. Your odds at Michigan are going to be dramatically higher than your odds coming out of anywhere else in state, enough so that I suspect it's worth the tuition.

I was actually debating between U of M and Wash U. I was nearly 100% sure on U of M, but then Wash U decided to throw a full ride at me, and its got me second guessing. The difference would be around 100K, which is obviously a ton of money. I always like to be a pessimist, so usually I'm thinking worst case scenario. If you were to guess, how bad do you think I would have to screw up to not land a decent Michigan job?

As a side note, sorry about the copying of your name. My noob tendencies are certainly out in full force. But for what its worth, I think we have a Newton Leibniz thing going on. Does it count as plagiarism if I came up with my name independently of yours? Clearly great minds think alike, lol.

[Lawlcat]

I was actually debating between U of M and Wash U. I was nearly 100% sure on U of M, but then Wash U decided to throw a full ride at me, and its got me second guessing. The difference would be around 100K, which is obviously a ton of money. I always like to be a pessimist, so usually I'm thinking worst case scenario. If you were to guess, how bad do you think I would have to screw up to not land a decent Michigan job?

As a side note, sorry about the copying of your name. My noob tendencies are certainly out in full force. But for what its worth, I think we have a Newton Leibniz thing going on. Does it count as plagiarism if I came up with my name independently of yours? Clearly great minds think alike, lol.

Hey, MLaw's pretty collegial. No problem whatsoever. I mean, if I were at CLS or something, I might have tried to snatch up all the good usernames so other posters couldn't have them.

Your question is an entirely reasonable one, and one the answer to which I think you should pursue, but I'm afraid I really can't in good conscience purport to provide a definitive answer. I don't know. Like I said, my feeling is you would have to do VERY poorly. (Not just in terms of grades, but also interviewing and such. Grades aren't all-determinative by any means.) A full ride is nice, especially if there are no stipulations, but I'm also pretty sure Michigan's LRAP is better. On the other hand, my impression is that to get any kind of decent job out of Wash U you'll have to play your cards at least rather well. I think Michigan's the safer bet.

A market-ish-paying firm in Michigan is probably not a SURE thing. Good legal work in Michigan probably is. Without data, I can't say for sure, but based on my experience I believe this to be the case.

[math101]

Is it possible to take language classes while you're studying law at UMich?

This question is kind of a two-parter:
a. Is it possible in the sense of being able to audit, for example, an undergraduate French class?
b. Is it possible in the sense of having the extra time to sit in and study for said French class during each or multiple of 1L, 2L, or 3L?

And, again, I just want to thank the UMichigan students that are taking the time to field these questions for us. This thread has been exceedingly helpful.

[betsyanna]

Is it possible to take language classes while you're studying law at UMich?

This question is kind of a two-parter:
a. Is it possible in the sense of being able to audit, for example, an undergraduate French class?
b. Is it possible in the sense of having the extra time to sit in and study for said French class during each or multiple of 1L, 2L, or 3L?

And, again, I just want to thank the UMichigan students that are taking the time to field these questions for us. This thread has been exceedingly helpful.

Definitely not 1L, but I highly recommend doing it during other semesters. I took classes outside the law school during both of my 2L semesters--one Spanish lit class and one English dept. seminar on the rhetoric surrounding same-sex marriage. Took both for a grade, so I don't know much about auditing. I suspect it would be hard to fit in an audited class on top of your normal workload. If you take the class for a grade, you'll get law school credit for it, up to a point.

[mich 13]

I can say that the majority of the people going to big firms in Michigan are typically in the bottom half of the class, and that a big chunk are generally in the bottom third (probably even bottom quarter). What I can't tell you is how many people in the bottom half (or even the top half) wanted to go to a big firm in Michigan and got shut out. Being from Michigan will help a lot - you will likely be in really good shape.

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

[lawlcat4179]

I can say that the majority of the people going to big firms in Michigan are typically in the bottom half of the class, and that a big chunk are generally in the bottom third (probably even bottom quarter). What I can't tell you is how many people in the bottom half (or even the top half) wanted to go to a big firm in Michigan and got shut out. Being from Michigan will help a lot - you will likely be in really good shape.

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

Thanks for the reply, it makes me think even more that UMich would probably be my best bet.

Do you have any ideas on the employment situation in general at UMich? It seems that I read other threads about how there are 2Ls in the top quarter who still don't have anything for the summer, or people at median who are struggling to find work. All this conflicting data just makes my head spin, and I can't seem to make any sense of it, or why it would be happening.

If I went to UMich i would be targeting the large Michigan firms from day one, which leads me to think that I'd have a leg up come 2L OCI, since I'd be showing them that I genuinely wanted to work there and they weren't just a back up plan. But then again, I hear the horror stories on the boards and I certainly don't want to be the one left holding the 100k debt with no job.

Are you a 1L, 2L, or 3L? Also, which OCI were you referencing (I'm assuming this year's)? The answers to those questions would carry great importance to me!

[Lawlcat]

Do you have any ideas on the employment situation in general at UMich? It seems that I read other threads about how there are 2Ls in the top quarter who still don't have anything for the summer, or people at median who are struggling to find work. All this conflicting data just makes my head spin, and I can't seem to make any sense of it, or why it would be happening.

I should really update that stats thread like I said I would. Bottom line: in the T14 last year, about 50-65% of students got NLJ250 (big firm) jobs, and about 10% got federal clerkships (which lead to all kinds of magical things, including very very good firm jobs).

It's not yet entirely clear how much GPA matters, except that it's clearly not the only thing going on. I recall some commentary to that effect on TLS after this last OCI season: 50% employment at big firms does not mean that the top 50% GPA-wise get big firm jobs. It's probably something more like 50% of the class, most of which comes from the top 75% of the class, got big firm jobs.

That's good news for people with low GPAs (especially if they find firms that aren't as GPA-focused as others), and bad news for people with high GPAs (especially if they can't find firms that will hire them for their GPA plus a pulse).

[mich 13]

I think the poster above me got it right to an extent. Remember that many of the larger midwestern firms are not NLJ250, and that there are people who had clerkships that maybe couldn't have had NLJ250 job because not all clerkships are equal. I am not referring to any particular OCI I'm sort of referring to the trend over the past decade or so, which includes both the boom and the bust. All schools have some data on this kind of stuff, but its not made available to admitted students because firms don't want it to be made available. There are definitely people out there who struggled at OCI, one guy who struggled last semester is almost certainly top 5 in the class. Grades will make certain employers take you seriously, but you still have to go through they still have to like you as a person. If you make straight A's but come off as the kind of person nobody wants to work with you will be in trouble, because nobody wants to work with you. At the same time there are perfectly respectable firms that pay 6 figures in NY and the midwest that will take people with grades in the bottom 25% if they come off as the kind of person you would want to work with. Being at Michigan alone will open some doors for you, grades will open more doors at "better" law firms, but you still have to interview. Also, you need to bid realistically. Career services can do a decent job of telling people where to bid (though there is a rumor that they messed up big time at the beginning of the financial meltdown), you have to listen to them and to the data. If you have a 3.1 gpa you need to bid on firms that take people with a 3.1 GPA rather than wasting them on firms that normally take people with a 3.5 gpa. None of this is unique to Michigan.

I can say that the majority of the people going to big firms in Michigan are typically in the bottom half of the class, and that a big chunk are generally in the bottom third (probably even bottom quarter). What I can't tell you is how many people in the bottom half (or even the top half) wanted to go to a big firm in Michigan and got shut out. Being from Michigan will help a lot - you will likely be in really good shape.

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

Thanks for the reply, it makes me think even more that UMich would probably be my best bet.

Do you have any ideas on the employment situation in general at UMich? It seems that I read other threads about how there are 2Ls in the top quarter who still don't have anything for the summer, or people at median who are struggling to find work. All this conflicting data just makes my head spin, and I can't seem to make any sense of it, or why it would be happening.

If I went to UMich i would be targeting the large Michigan firms from day one, which leads me to think that I'd have a leg up come 2L OCI, since I'd be showing them that I genuinely wanted to work there and they weren't just a back up plan. But then again, I hear the horror stories on the boards and I certainly don't want to be the one left holding the 100k debt with no job.

Are you a 1L, 2L, or 3L? Also, which OCI were you referencing (I'm assuming this year's)? The answers to those questions would carry great importance to me!

[R.R. Raskolnikov]

This isn't the most important facet of law school but...

Given the frigid temperatures for much of the year, how often do law students get out and play pick up games of soccer, basketball, etc., regardless of whether they are indoors or outdoors? Are there a lot of opportunities to kill downtime with athletics besides going to the gym (which I hate)?

[er doctor]

This isn't the most important facet of law school but...

Given the frigid temperatures for much of the year, how often do law students get out and play pick up games of soccer, basketball, etc., regardless of whether they are indoors or outdoors? Are there a lot of opportunities to kill downtime with athletics besides going to the gym (which I hate)?

As a prospective student I don't know the answer I just wanted to say during the ASW last week a few students were playing catch in the quad.

[03121202698008]

This isn't the most important facet of law school but...

Given the frigid temperatures for much of the year, how often do law students get out and play pick up games of soccer, basketball, etc., regardless of whether they are indoors or outdoors? Are there a lot of opportunities to kill downtime with athletics besides going to the gym (which I hate)?

Easy, there isn't that much downtime to fill up. When it was nice out, there was plenty of stuff going on...even some LS tournaments. When it gets cold is right about when 1st semester is really picking up. Once you make through that and into 2nd, is when legal practice/job hunt for summer starts picking up. Now that most are through that, exams are right around the corner.

[math101]

How and when do we buy season football tickets?

Also, I read somewhere... (um, maybe on this thread?) thatthere is a pre-orientation orientation for fall starters. MAP, I think it was called? Can anyone give any more details on whether or not this exists and what exactly is it, if it does?

Thanks!

[03121202698008]

How and when do we buy season football tickets?

Also, I read somewhere... (um, maybe on this thread?) thatthere is a pre-orientation orientation for fall starters. MAP, I think it was called? Can anyone give any more details on whether or not this exists and what exactly is it, if it does?

Thanks!

It exists...I did it and found it to be a nice transition and good way to get to know people. Regular orientation was kind of abrupt without it. JJ White decided to hold real classes during orientation instead of the get to know you classes the others held.

[Joan Hollaway]

How and when do we buy season football tickets?

Also, I read somewhere... (um, maybe on this thread?) thatthere is a pre-orientation orientation for fall starters. MAP, I think it was called? Can anyone give any more details on whether or not this exists and what exactly is it, if it does?

Thanks!

It exists...I did it and found it to be a nice transition and good way to get to know people. Regular orientation was kind of abrupt without it. JJ White decided to hold real classes during orientation instead of the get to know you classes the others held.

I thought the weeklong orientation was toooooo long.

[Joan Hollaway]

How and when do we buy season football tickets?

Also, I read somewhere... (um, maybe on this thread?) thatthere is a pre-orientation orientation for fall starters. MAP, I think it was called? Can anyone give any more details on whether or not this exists and what exactly is it, if it does?

Thanks!

They will email you about the season tickets.