The BigLaw hate buffet Forum

[spleenworship]

Wow. Pobracita.

[homestyle28]

Not formatting that copypasta does make you a terrible person, TBF.

I'm on my phone with a toddler on my lap, I don't even feel bad

You shouldn't feel bad about helping rich people trade their money, and you shouldn't feel bad about giant block quotes.

TLSing with your kid in your lap? Maybe you should feel bad about that...

[El Pollito]

Not formatting that copypasta does make you a terrible person, TBF.

I'm on my phone with a toddler on my lap, I don't even feel bad

You shouldn't feel bad about helping rich people trade their money, and you shouldn't feel bad about giant block quotes.

TLSing with your kid in your lap? Maybe you should feel bad about that...

Even if it's a TLS baby?

[homestyle28]

Not formatting that copypasta does make you a terrible person, TBF.

I'm on my phone with a toddler on my lap, I don't even feel bad

You shouldn't feel bad about helping rich people trade their money, and you shouldn't feel bad about giant block quotes.

TLSing with your kid in your lap? Maybe you should feel bad about that...

Even if it's a TLS baby?

Gah! kill it! Kill it!

[JusticeHarlan]

There are these two opposing, irreconcilable feelings about working biglaw: on one hand, you want to escape as quickly as possible. On the other hand, you're trying to hold on for dear life and not get fired. That level of cognitive dissonance isn't healthy.

One day you'll be working on a project and say, "screw this, I'm gonna be out of here before anyone knows I was even here" and peace out early, only when you get home, or wake up in the morning, your brain flips a switch and you think, "egad, I was slacking off too much yesterday - will anyone notice? Will this come up on my performance review? Will this hold me back? I'll have to work through lunch and stay past midnight to get everything done." Every time you go from "fuck it" to "I'm fucked," it's like a million levels of stress worse than if you were continually in the long-term stress mode.

Another day you'll be busting your ass getting everything done perfectly, ahead of time, reaching that stage where a normal person might take pride in their work, and as you turn in your work product to the midlevel, you switch modes and think, "good God, did I really just give up my entire weekend and cancel on my friends for just so I could do that? Why do I care, I won't be around here in 18 months, if that." Every time your brain makes the switch from biglaw gunner to biglaw escape artist, it's just all that much more depressing that you're wasting away what are probably some of your prime years getting all jacked up to do stuff that you can't even be bothered to care about later that day.

I'm sure other jobs have this feature, but the well-known short half-life in biglaw and the knowledge that if you don't get enough experience you could be totally unemployable makes for pretty loathsome combination.

[Theopliske8711]

I guess the take away is that it's not the work hours or the stress that makes bugmaw unique; it's the mix of job insecurity and debt.

The latter seems to be what really sticks out more so than the hours and gruelling nature of the work.

[nickb285]

..

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

Agreed. And, just for the record, I'd much rather spend my life as a prole than defending Inner Party members, trying desperately to convince myself that money and "prestige" is worth sacrificing my soul for Big Brother, until I one day realize I'll never rise to become morn than a Outer Party peon with a bleeding ulcer and varicose veins.

I'm curious about your views on money, because when it comes to small firms making money, you were eager to advise others that:

Start looking for small personal injury firm jobs, if you are interested in that type of work, like litigation, and are at least somewhat of a people person.These firms don't care much about grades and the environment is quite similar to that of a startup. If you really posses the entrepreneurial mindset you've mentioned, and are willing to work hard and hustle your ass off, you could end up out earning the BigLaw bound assholes on here that are telling you to drop out.

So is dat personal injury cash more green somehow? Does it just smell sweeter? Or is it maybe possible that your shit stinks as bad as anyone else's?

[rayiner]

I'm curious if all of this stands at larger firms in smaller markets. I'm guessing most of the biglaw experience on TLS is at firms in NY/Chicago/LA/etc. Does anyone know if it's any different in, say, Denver/Seattle/Miami type markets? Do they relax a little since they're not chasing prestige as much, or do they strive even harder to make themselves feel like they're as important as the NYC branch?

The hours are probably better. But I the debt is same/worse (often market pay is lower), and job security can be less. Regional firms are merging or getting acquired out of existence, and every time a merger happens, people are made redundant. Also the economies of most areas that are dominated by regional firms are lagging. Do you want to bet your career on the continued vitality of Cleveland? Seattle, Denver, etc, are healthy, but impossible to get jobs in.

[Young Marino]

These are your coworkers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgSJUzYCGtc.

This is both the funniest and saddest thing I've seen in a while.

RIP Anita

http://www.anitaslove.com/about/

Hmmm. Cause of death unknown? How about she worked herself to fucking death? The biglaw partners probably know this but they have a few corporate clients to serve and that was more important than their colleagues health. The same evil corporations that evade taxes and buy politicians so they're above the law. Look, Anita was probably so over worked while pregnant she couldn't handle it. Greed is a terrible terrible thing and that is what biglaw is all about. You know who is the prototypical biglaw shitbag? Donald Sterling. I think I'd rather be $250k in debt (luckily I won't be) and default than have to service the debt on a biglaw salary. I never even want to come close to having to put up with those greedy shitbags

[sandiego222]

Just to clear things up, Donald Sterling was a divorce/ personal injury lawyer (if I'm not mistaken)

Adam Silver, on the other hand, worked in a V5 firm

[NYSprague]

These are your coworkers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgSJUzYCGtc.

This is both the funniest and saddest thing I've seen in a while.

RIP Anita

http://www.anitaslove.com/about/

Hmmm. Cause of death unknown? How about she worked herself to fucking death? The biglaw partners probably know this but they have a few corporate clients to serve and that was more important than their colleagues health. The same evil corporations that evade taxes and buy politicians so they're above the law. Look, Anita was probably so over worked while pregnant she couldn't handle it. Greed is a terrible terrible thing and that is what biglaw is all about. You know who is the prototypical biglaw shitbag? Donald Sterling. I think I'd rather be $250k in debt (luckily I won't be) and default than have to service the debt on a biglaw salary. I never even want to come close to having to put up with those greedy shitbags

She wasn't working in biglaw when she died. She worked for Kirkland for 6 years, moved to Atlanta and worked for holland and knight for a year and a half and then left to start her own firm about 2 years before she died. She had one child while at Kirkland.

Don't use her life and death as a poster child for biglaw hate just because she was in an old video.

She did die of placental abruption followed by a heart attack. The unexplained part is why she didn't go to the hospital because she was in pain and she was pregnant.

[Question Everything]

Agreed. And, just for the record, I'd much rather spend my life as a prole than defending Inner Party members, trying desperately to convince myself that money and "prestige" is worth sacrificing my soul for Big Brother, until I one day realize I'll never rise to become morn than a Outer Party peon with a bleeding ulcer and varicose veins.

I'm curious about your views on money, because when it comes to small firms making money, you were eager to advise others that:

Start looking for small personal injury firm jobs, if you are interested in that type of work, like litigation, and are at least somewhat of a people person.These firms don't care much about grades and the environment is quite similar to that of a startup. If you really posses the entrepreneurial mindset you've mentioned, and are willing to work hard and hustle your ass off, you could end up out earning the BigLaw bound assholes on here that are telling you to drop out.

So is dat personal injury cash more green somehow? Does it just smell sweeter? Or is it maybe possible that your shit stinks as bad as anyone else's?

Yes, it is much greener and smells so very much sweeter -- just like my shit. I'd much rather spend my days fighting for the victims of greedy corporations than defending those bad actors. Plenty of you are willing to devote your energies to doing the latter already. I could not look myself in the mirror if I had to be part of a team that defends companies such as General Motors, who sat on information for over 10 years that could've saved countless lives, Bank of America, who repeatedly defrauded consumers, or Pfizer, who paid physicians kickbacks to prescribe their pharmaceuticals, just to name a few that come to mind. If that's what you choose/chose to do, so be it, I realize that not everyone can care as much for their common man as I do, but you assholes need to stop stomping around like you're somehow superior. In my book, those who go into BigLaw are nothing more than risk-averse cowards who've painted themselves into a corner and now must try to disassociate from the realization that they are not only wasting their lives, but perpetuating wrongs.

[bjsesq]

Agreed. And, just for the record, I'd much rather spend my life as a prole than defending Inner Party members, trying desperately to convince myself that money and "prestige" is worth sacrificing my soul for Big Brother, until I one day realize I'll never rise to become morn than a Outer Party peon with a bleeding ulcer and varicose veins.

I'm curious about your views on money, because when it comes to small firms making money, you were eager to advise others that:

Start looking for small personal injury firm jobs, if you are interested in that type of work, like litigation, and are at least somewhat of a people person.These firms don't care much about grades and the environment is quite similar to that of a startup. If you really posses the entrepreneurial mindset you've mentioned, and are willing to work hard and hustle your ass off, you could end up out earning the BigLaw bound assholes on here that are telling you to drop out.

So is dat personal injury cash more green somehow? Does it just smell sweeter? Or is it maybe possible that your shit stinks as bad as anyone else's?

Yes, it is much greener and smells so very much sweeter -- just like my shit. I'd much rather spend my days fighting for the victims of greedy corporations than defending those bad actors. Plenty of you are willing to devote your energies to doing the latter already. I could not look myself in the mirror if I had to be part of a team that defends companies such as General Motors, who sat on information for over 10 years that could've saved countless lives, Bank of America, who repeatedly defrauded consumers, or Pfizer, who paid physicians kickbacks to prescribe their pharmaceuticals, just to name a few that come to mind. If that's what you choose/chose to do, so be it, I realize that not everyone can care as much for their common man as I do, but you assholes need to stop stomping around like you're somehow superior. In my book, those who go into BigLaw are nothing more than risk-averse cowards who've painted themselves into a corner and now must try to disassociate from the realization that they are not only wasting their lives, but perpetuating wrongs.

This is where you gave up the troll.

[spleenworship]

Is QE like 12?

I'd rather work personal injury for the little dude than biglaw, but I have no illusions: my clients would be exactly the same in many ways to biglaw clients - some just doing their best, some legitimately wronged, some just out for a buck. People suck. I've met some big corporate clients. They aren't bad people, just people looking out for their own interests like everyone else. The only real upside to personal injury is that you have more control over the cases you work and your hours than anyone in biglaw.

[jbagelboy]

if you are opposed to liberal market capitalism and the protection of private property, then you shouldn't be in law school or on a law school chat forum. That's not to say you can't be socially liberal or progressive, but you can't be an anarchist attorney - the training has some fundamentally conservative roots and engrains and perpetuates its common law and constitutional heritage. If you accept that we live in a system which respects and protects private property, and encourages collateralization of that property allowing the rate of return on capital investment to exceed the general economic growth rate (Picketty's thesis), then there's nothing any more "wrong" about defending corporations or helping them restructure or merge than representing trade unions or class action plaintiffs. Everyone is entitled to representation, even corporate persons.

There are a few conversations I've had with biglawlers that made my stomach turn (like one guy who was very proud of helping his JP Morgan client evade criminal sanctions for LIBOR when they were clearly guilty), but most are just honestly upholding their fiduciary duties and would rather advise their clients to stay within the law than help them break it. The endogeneity of law is a constant social burden but don't think you are some white knight for choosing one client over others within the same system.

[Question Everything]

Is QE like 12?

I'd rather work personal injury for the little dude than biglaw, but I have no illusions: my clients would be exactly the same in many ways to biglaw clients - some just doing their best, some legitimately wronged, some just out for a buck. People suck. I've met some big corporate clients. They aren't bad people, just people looking out for their own interests like everyone else. The only real upside to personal injury is that you have more control over the cases you work and your hours than anyone in biglaw.

First off, fuck you. Your views couldn't be more infantile if you tried. The false equivalency you attempt to establish is laughable. Enjoy defending the indefensible in order to line your pockets if you want to prostitute yourself like that, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

[Question Everything]

if you are opposed to liberal market capitalism and the protection of private property, then you shouldn't be in law school or on a law school chat forum. That's not to say you can't be socially liberal or progressive, but you can't be an anarchist attorney - the training has some fundamentally conservative roots and engrains and perpetuates its common law and constitutional heritage. If you accept that we live in a system which respects and protects private property, and encourages collateralization of that property allowing the rate of return on capital investment to exceed the general economic growth rate (Picketty's thesis), then there's nothing any more "wrong" about defending corporations or helping them restructure or merge than representing trade unions or class action plaintiffs. Everyone is entitled to representation, even corporate persons.

There are a few conversations I've had with biglawlers that made my stomach turn (like one guy who was very proud of helping his JP Morgan client evade criminal sanctions for LIBOR when they were clearly guilty), but most are just honestly upholding their fiduciary duties and would rather advise their clients to stay within the law than help them break it. The endogeneity of law is a constant social burden but don't think you are some white knight for choosing one client over others within the same system.

The fact that corporations are entitled to representation goes without question. Choosing to advocate for their interests above those of working people is a different story.

[jbagelboy]

Is QE like 12?

I'd rather work personal injury for the little dude than biglaw, but I have no illusions: my clients would be exactly the same in many ways to biglaw clients - some just doing their best, some legitimately wronged, some just out for a buck. People suck. I've met some big corporate clients. They aren't bad people, just people looking out for their own interests like everyone else. The only real upside to personal injury is that you have more control over the cases you work and your hours than anyone in biglaw.

First off, fuck you. Your views couldn't be more infantile if you tried. The false equivalency you attempt to establish is laughable. Enjoy defending the indefensible in order to line your pockets if you want to prostitute yourself like that, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

dude he was being perfectly reasonable with you.

[bjsesq]

STOP FUCKING ENGAGING IT YOU DUMBFUCKS

[2014]

QE you should start an ambulance chaser AMA.

[rpupkin]

STOP FUCKING ENGAGING IT YOU DUMBFUCKS

Yeah....we wouldn't want to lower the lofty discourse that typifies threads like these.

I don't know....I found spleenworship's and jbagelboy's posts thoughtful. Sure, Question Everything is intemperate and clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, and it's possible that he's just a troll, but I don't mind the interesting responses.

[Question Everything]

Is QE like 12?

I'd rather work personal injury for the little dude than biglaw, but I have no illusions: my clients would be exactly the same in many ways to biglaw clients - some just doing their best, some legitimately wronged, some just out for a buck. People suck. I've met some big corporate clients. They aren't bad people, just people looking out for their own interests like everyone else. The only real upside to personal injury is that you have more control over the cases you work and your hours than anyone in biglaw.

First off, fuck you. Your views couldn't be more infantile if you tried. The false equivalency you attempt to establish is laughable. Enjoy defending the indefensible in order to line your pockets if you want to prostitute yourself like that, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

dude he was being perfectly reasonable with you.

Somewhat. If he left off the "is QE 12?" comment I wouldn't have responded so harshly.

[Question Everything]

QE you should start an ambulance chaser AMA.

I plan on it.

[jbagelboy]

if you are opposed to liberal market capitalism and the protection of private property, then you shouldn't be in law school or on a law school chat forum. That's not to say you can't be socially liberal or progressive, but you can't be an anarchist attorney - the training has some fundamentally conservative roots and engrains and perpetuates its common law and constitutional heritage. If you accept that we live in a system which respects and protects private property, and encourages collateralization of that property allowing the rate of return on capital investment to exceed the general economic growth rate (Picketty's thesis), then there's nothing any more "wrong" about defending corporations or helping them restructure or merge than representing trade unions or class action plaintiffs. Everyone is entitled to representation, even corporate persons.

There are a few conversations I've had with biglawlers that made my stomach turn (like one guy who was very proud of helping his JP Morgan client evade criminal sanctions for LIBOR when they were clearly guilty), but most are just honestly upholding their fiduciary duties and would rather advise their clients to stay within the law than help them break it. The endogeneity of law is a constant social burden but don't think you are some white knight for choosing one client over others within the same system.

The fact that corporations are entitled to representation goes without question. Choosing to advocate for their interests above those of working people is a different story.

K street "advocates for the interests" of corporations by lobbying for preferential treatment. That's where the black money is going back and forth if you want a target. Attorneys represent and advise their clients. If you acknowledge that an entity is entitled to representation, then a fortiorti you've legitimated their counsel, whoever it may be. You can't turn around and put a target on those people's backs with any shred of credibility.

Unless, of course, as I said before you fundamentally don't believe in the protection of pooled assets. I'm all on board for breaking the influence of large corporations in government, and I despise Citizens United, but that's achieved through the political process, not the litigative one.