Minnesota Law 1L taking questions Forum

[kd5]

If you could rank the top five law firms based on where the most students want to work, what would be the order? Dorsey and Whitney seems to be the biggest but Robbins, Kaplan and Cirisi seems to be the most prestigious. Do you agree?

Dorsey and Whitney is the most prestigious firm based in the twin cities. Then you have Faegre Baker Daniels, which is the biggest, and Robins which is known for its litigation practice.

Other than that you have: Lindquist and Vennum, Maslon Borman, Fredrikson and Byron, and a bunch of satellite offices of Chicago and NY firms with under 10 attorneys that don't hire recent grads.

Don't forget Briggs & Morgan, gray plant mooty, and Leonard Street & Deinard.

Where students want to work (other than generally wanting to land a spot at any of the firms mentioned) depends on what their goals are. If you think you want to stay with one firm for awhile and maybe pursue partner track eventually, you'd probably be better off somewhere like Leonard or Gray Plant than at Dorsey or Robins. OTOH, if you want to be in a good position to lateral or jump to prestigious opportunities outside private practice, Faegre or Dorsey will be a much better launchpad than most of the other firms.

[wwapd]

Does UMN law school have a part time program or can I be enrolled part time and still take classes? I have a job I love but want to go to law school.

[Nova]

Full time only. You are allowed to work up to 20 hrs per week in the ft program though. Its tough to pull off though.

If you don't want to leave the area, some of the ttts have pt programs. If you're competitive for the U, youll probably get a big enough scholly at wm/st/h to possibly make it a decent option.

[minnbills]

William Mitchell has a popular part time program.

[MNbound]

I work 20 hours a week (actually more if you count MJF hours) and go FT to William Mitchell on a full scholly, its not that bad.

[Nova]

I work 20 hours a week (actually more if you count MJF hours) and go FT to William Mitchell on a full scholly, its not that bad.

I just quit my job because working 20 hours a week while going to school full time has run me into the ground.

Glad its working out for you though

[minnbills]

I work 20 hours a week (actually more if you count MJF hours) and go FT to William Mitchell on a full scholly, its not that bad.

Sometimes I wish I had taken the full ride to WM.

[Youppi!]

I work 20 hours a week (actually more if you count MJF hours) and go FT to William Mitchell on a full scholly, its not that bad.

Sometimes I wish I had taken the full ride to WM.

Ooof. That's a harsh way to leave this thread hanging. How was your 1L/rising 2L summer? And OCI? Obviously be as general or as specific as you want. I'm considering UMN.

[minnbills]

I interned for a state judge, it was an awesome experience. OCI didn't go well. But I didn't have the grades so it wasn't a real focus for me.

Some opportunities have come up in the past year, I haven't been able to convert one yet, but it's not like I'm wading through a wasteland.

I will graduate from the U with about 50k in debt. If I had gone to WM it would have been around 10. Considering that I will likely end up either with a small firm or doing a state district court clerkship, I'm not sure the U has been worth it.

Look, you will get a great legal education at the U. Our faculty is just outstanding. No way two ways about it. I don't know what it's like over at WM. There is definitely some street cred that goes with being at UMN as opposed to the other local schools, I'm not convinced it will be worth the 40k though.

If you want to work for a big firm, and go to UMN, you should be either a minority or an engineer (or have some equivalent hard science degree). Even people at the top of the class struggle to get jobs with big firms. I can name a few people off the top of my head with straight As who didn't get anything out of OCI.

If you just want to work in MN and you're not too concerned with where your first job is, I think the U is far and away the best choice, it's just a question of how much you're willing to pay for it.

[midwestlawstudent]

Does anyone know anything about Dorsey going to 115,000 for starting salaries next year?

[jbagelboy]

Does anyone know anything about Dorsey going to 115,000 for starting salaries next year?

On this note:

1) which Twin cities area large law firms take 1L SA's?
2) do any pay market (assuming not), and if not, what is the SA pay structure?
3) what are the hours like for SAs in the twin cities?

I realize these q's are a little tangential to the OP, but I'll be mass mailing minnesota firms in december in addition to my other secondary market so I'm quite curious. Thanks for the info!

[middlemarch]

Does anyone know anything about Dorsey going to 115,000 for starting salaries next year?

On this note:

1) which Twin cities area large law firms take 1L SA's?
2) do any pay market (assuming not), and if not, what is the SA pay structure?
3) what are the hours like for SAs in the twin cities?

I realize these q's are a little tangential to the OP, but I'll be mass mailing minnesota firms in december in addition to my other secondary market so I'm quite curious. Thanks for the info!

Just to focus first on the theme of this thread first. In general, I think going to UMN carries significant reputational advantage over the other Minnesota law schools and this is a real thing. If you go to one of the other three, you'll always have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, whereas in Minnesota the U clearly leads the pack. If you look at summer associate classes in the Twin Cities, UMN students are the plurality and vastly outnumber the other local schools. Outside of Minnesota, I think a law degree from UMN is relatively more portable than degrees from the other three MN law schools (UMN students can summer at prominent coastal firms, e.g. Cravath). Let me be clear: this is not to say that if you go to UMN you won't have to work hard to get good grades--you still have to be well within the top quartile, interview reasonably well, and possibly have other things going on (e.g. law review/journal, or work experience, or URM, or science background, etc.) to get a biglaw SA position in-state, or out-of-state. But there will be more opportunities coming out of UMN than any other law school in the region.

1) Depends on whether you are URM. If so, getting a 1L summer associate position is easier--although you still need great grades. All of the big and some mid-size firms will take 1Ls, and some of the larger corporations will too, e.g. Dorsey, Faegre, Robins, Fredrickson, GPM, UHG, Target, etc. Google or ask Career Services about the established hiring/interview programs available for minority 1Ls.

If you are not URM, some firms still take 1L SAs if you have truly exceptional grades. Off the top of my head I am thinking Leonard Street and Briggs & Morgan both do, and sometimes Dorsey/Faegre/Robins if you go to a top school (think HYS). Another good bet is to look at corporate General Counsel offices, which is a good pipeline into a 2L SA gig because you have a great story to tell--you will have a (/their) client's perspective into the legal business. Look at, for example, Land O' Lakes and United Health.

2) Biglaw 1L summer associates in the Twin Cities earn the same as the 2L summer associates, which is usually pro-rated first year associate salary (~$2100/wk). You can look up the firm NALP page. Some 1L/2L summer associate gigs may come with an extra diversity scholarship on top of the normal salary which can bump up earnings close to/over coastal SA levels.

3) I would say around 8 or 8:30am to 5:30 or 6pm. Nothing too horrendous. Being a summer associate is the best and cushiest job you will have. If you shy away from summer associate hours, you should seriously reconsider whether you want to go into corporate law.

[jbagelboy]

Does anyone know anything about Dorsey going to 115,000 for starting salaries next year?

On this note:

1) which Twin cities area large law firms take 1L SA's?
2) do any pay market (assuming not), and if not, what is the SA pay structure?
3) what are the hours like for SAs in the twin cities?

I realize these q's are a little tangential to the OP, but I'll be mass mailing minnesota firms in december in addition to my other secondary market so I'm quite curious. Thanks for the info!

Just to focus first on the theme of this thread first. In general, I think going to UMN carries significant reputational advantage over the other Minnesota law schools and this is a real thing. If you go to one of the other three, you'll always have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, whereas in Minnesota the U clearly leads the pack. If you look at summer associate classes in the Twin Cities, UMN students are the plurality and vastly outnumber the other local schools. Outside of Minnesota, I think a law degree from UMN is relatively more portable than degrees from the other three MN law schools (UMN students can summer at prominent coastal firms, e.g. Cravath). Let me be clear: this is not to say that if you go to UMN you won't have to work hard to get good grades--you still have to be well within the top quartile, interview reasonably well, and possibly have other things going on (e.g. law review, science background) to get a biglaw SA position in-state, or out-of-state. But there will be more opportunities coming out of UMN than any other law school in the region.

1) Depends on whether you are URM. If so, getting a 1L summer associate position is easier. All of the big and some mid-size firms will take 1Ls, and some of the larger corporations will too, e.g. Dorsey, Faegre, Robins, Fredrickson, GPM, UHG, Target, etc. Google or ask Career Services about the established hiring/interview programs available for minority 1Ls.

If you are not URM, some firms still take 1L SAs if you have exceptional grades. Off the top of my head I am thinking Leonard Street and Briggs & Morgan both do, and sometimes Dorsey/Faegre/Robins if you go to a top school (think HYS). Another good bet is to look at corporate General Counsel offices, which is a good pipeline into a 2L SA gig because you have a great story to tell--you will have a (/their) client's perspective into the legal business. Look at, for example, Land O' Lakes and United Health.

2) Biglaw 1L summer associates in the Twin Cities earn the same as the 2L summer associates, which is usually pro-rated first year associate salary (~$2100/wk). You can look up the firm NALP page. Some 1L summer associate gigs come with an extra diversity scholarship on top of the normal salary.

3) I would say around 8 or 8:30am to 5:30 or 6pm. Nothing too horrendous. Being a summer associate is the best and cushiest job you will have. If you shy away from summer associate hours, you should seriously reconsider whether you want to go into corporate law.

Thank you! I really appreciate the insight and details. Everything sounds great here. I don't go to the U, I'm at a top school and my SO/her family are from Minnesota in addition one side of mine and she/we may want to spend the summer there (not really looking to line up 2L there, given OCI will be NY/CA.). Im considering mass mailing the firms you mentioned Dec 1 to open the option for us.

Im guessing its a long shot still but worth a try. And no, haha, those hours are ideal - I was just curious given the pay is ~900 less/wk than other SA locations.