Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[lawschool22]

At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

[rinkrat19]

At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

Pretty sure it's hated at all schools. NU's is particularly bad because it's graded and a lot of work, but only worth 2 credits.

[Flips88]

At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

It's heavily dependent on what prof you had I think. I really liked my CLR prof and class by extension. The knock everyone has on it is that it's graded and pretty arbitrary.

[rinkrat19]

At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

It's heavily dependent on what prof you had I think. I really liked my CLR prof and class by extension. The knock everyone has on it is that it's graded and pretty arbitrary.

To put this in perspective, my class had 9 sections of CLR and you only heard any students say nice things about ONE of the CLR professors.

My CLR prof gave us sadistic word limits (usually about 10% lower than all the other sections on the same assignment) and utterly useless and inconsistent feedback. First time in my life that I felt like a bad writer. But then my 1L summer bosses told me I wrote really well and they were going to reconsider their policy of not usually hiring 1Ls.

[bk1]

At the ASW I got the impression that CLR was horrible. What's the deal? Is that unique to NU, or do all law schools have a similarly horrible version of that course?

It's heavily dependent on what prof you had I think. I really liked my CLR prof and class by extension. The knock everyone has on it is that it's graded and pretty arbitrary.

It's also just far more work than every other class you have until finals hits (though you never have work for it during finals).

[zugzwanger]

I'm pretty sure everybody dislikes CLR everywhere...I think some schools have it as a semester and/or not graded v. we have it all year and graded so people complain about that. The amount the class sucks is probably not proportionate to how much people complain about it, but when you take it, you will complain the exact same amount haha! It won't make sense until you take it.

[cookiejar1]

I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

[rinkrat19]

I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

Wow, your assignments are graded against some sort of consistent rubric? That must be nice.

[Cobretti]

I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

lol@compelling legal arguments in clr

[whereskyle]

Can CLR assignments translate into effective writing samples? Did anybody use material from undergrad? Any other examples of writing samples?

[Flips88]

Can CLR assignments translate into effective writing samples? Did anybody use material from undergrad? Any other examples of writing samples?

do not use anything from undergrad

I'd say it's pretty standard to use your CLR brief or memo for a writing sample.

[LRGhost]

I've gone into my second semester of CLR knowing that I wouldn't, really, learn anything and it's been really great so far. My brief isn't an exercise in legal writing, no, it's an exercise in somehow reinforcing every tiny little bullet point in my prof's grading rubric. Maybe it's just my terribad CLR professor but religiously following every inane arbitrary bulletpoint gleaned from a lecture >>>>>>>> coming up with a compelling legal argument.

lol@ clr

FTFY

[lgleye]

.

[KremeCheez]

Anyone have an outline for Environmental Law (Barsa) they'd be willing to share with me?

[09042014]

Anyone have an outline for Environmental Law (Barsa) they'd be willing to share with me?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mb9gnd3rqggx ... mental.rar

I basically used the checklist as an Outline. That test is hard, he tests fucking everything. But he's a good grader.

[homestyle28]

Anyone gone through Lutz's large law firm class that has any insight on the exam, or an outline?

[bk1]

That test is hard, he tests fucking everything. But he's a good grader.

+1

[d cooper]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

[09042014]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

They mean they are butthurt about not doing well.

[LRGhost]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.

[rinkrat19]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

I don't know about all the profs, but my prof would only look at one half page, double-spaced, of an assignment in progress. You could take that half page to her more than once, and you could ask her verbal questions as much as you wanted, but she wouldn't look at any more of your paper than that. And we could only show the TA the same half page too.

And you could follow a criticism of hers TO THE LETTER and be told the next time she read it that your change was wrong and it should be the way you had it to begin with.

[rayiner]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.

Get used to it, your clients will do this too.

[Micdiddy]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

They mean they are butthurt about not doing well.

Pretty much. Some will say that they followed their Professors advice and then were graded down for it, but that seems extreme and rare (and likely they just did something wrong, as is usually the case when a student disagrees with a Professor). I think there are definitely right and wrong ways to organize and structure a CLR paper and your Professor will actually try to help you (usually. I've only had one CLR paper so I could be completely wrong about the others).

[rinkrat19]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.

Get used to it, your clients will do this too.

Yeah, but clients are dumb and don't know what they want, and they're paying for your time anyway. A CLR prof is presumably supposed to teach you to do something the "right" way.

[homestyle28]

Is the grading for CLR so capricious that if you took assignments to your instructor every week to receive feedback before submitting, you wouldn't come out with any consistent rules to structure your papers by? I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say grading is arbitrary.

I've done this. It didn't help. I literally made changes that were requested only for them to be criticized on the actual paper. It's bullshit.

Get used to it, your clients will do this too.

CLR Profs = taking my $10k to give me arbitrary feedback
Clients = giving me $10k to give me arbitrary feedback

Although neither is ideal, one is preferable.