Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[Micdiddy]

Daniel Gandert or Lynn Cohn for Negotiations this summer? Priorities: 1. Easier grader 2. Better Professor.

[NUCAT2020]

It appears that the 1Ls are at least getting good at counter-arguments. Unfortunately, I don't think that they hold up, and the class's behavior reflects poorly on the school. 1L attendance for anything (employer events, bar review, Barristers, etc.) has been a problem all year. The number of excuses I've heard about it being a CLR day or a person being on call or X other reason to not participate in some school event has been higher than ever. All the other classes had those same CLR assignments and those days on call, but we didn't receive emails from the school about it. We didn't have partners commenting to us about our poor attendance. We didn't have partners asking their incoming summer associates what was wrong or ask those same summers to come to the event tonight simply so they had someone to talk to. There are counter-arguments and then there's also just stepping your game up.

Rant over.

[kennethellenparcell]

Look, it is definitely important to focus on grades but it is also very important to network. I know you guys feel like we're all yelling at you but it's for your own good!! I feel like you guys aren't afraid enough about jobs, or maybe just don't think it's all that important for some reason. I understand skipping Barrister's or bar review to study - I don't understand skipping Meet the Employers night, or other events that are put on to help you understand the legal profession and make connections with people that can help you get JOBS. Honestly, you need to take advantage of the awesome opportunity that these employers are coming to YOU - isn't that what you're paying for after all? The increased access to employers?

[captainplanet]

Daniel Gandert or Lynn Cohn for Negotiations this summer? Priorities: 1. Easier grader 2. Better Professor.

Lynn Cohn's class may be for the incoming AJD class. I would double check whether you can enroll into the class.

[franklyscarlet]

Look, it is definitely important to focus on grades but it is also very important to network. I know you guys feel like we're all yelling at you but it's for your own good!! I feel like you guys aren't afraid enough about jobs, or maybe just don't think it's all that important for some reason. I understand skipping Barrister's or bar review to study - I don't understand skipping Meet the Employers night, or other events that are put on to help you understand the legal profession and make connections with people that can help you get JOBS. Honestly, you need to take advantage of the awesome opportunity that these employers are coming to YOU - isn't that what you're paying for after all? The increased access to employers?

Preach, Kenneth.
Ok. Having read the past few pages I feel the need to pile on. 1Ls, you know we love you all. And it's likely less those of you on here than your classmates that are the problem, because we've been saying it all year, But get your priorities straight.

The short version because holy shit why am I up at 4am: networking through school events straight up got me a job at a firm that I'm 99% certain I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Met an attorney at a WLC event, KEPT IN TOUCH (I'll get to why that in all caps), saw her again at meet the employers and then in the hospitality suite at OCI and when I went in for my callback she went to bat for me in a serious way. Everyone I met already knew me and started the interview with "x attorney said this and this about you." It was the best interview I had, bar none.

Will everyone you meet do that? No. Will meeting someone once at meet the employers make them a great contact? No. But you go, you lay seeds, and you stay in touch with the ones that click. It pays off. I promise it does. So much more than that extra hour of CLR. No excuses, guys.

These events are also a fantastic way to get a feel for firms right off the bat. It sounds absurd now but it might be important come bidding when you already know you hate everyone you've met from firm Y or you love everyone from firm Z.

One more thing before I get off my soapbox: I don't know about you guys, but I'm the world's most awkward person in crowds. I become like a T-Rex: short arms, nonsensical squawks, most happy around food. I had to actively teach myself to work a networking event. It took all of 1L. OCI hospitality suites are NOT the place to realize you freeze up. Practice, practice practice. Go to events. Go to every event. Meet people. Set up small group meetings. Even if you think you're good at it, you'd be surprised how much better you get with practice. PI people aside, OCI is endgame. It's not just something that happens between semesters.

[Dr. Filth]

Here's an example:

Career Center Presents: Fall Recruiting Mandatory Meeting for 1Ls
Time: 12:00 PM
Location: Levy Mayer LM104 Lincoln Hall

Career Center Presents: Chicago Legal Market for Smaller and Midsized Firms
Time: 12:15 PM
Location: Rubloff - RB180

:/

[Blumpbeef]

people need to be fired

[Dr. Filth]

Also, meet the CA employers was moved from lunch to when 75% of the 1L class has class this morning.

I appreciate the come to Jesus meeting though, 2/3L's. There really is no reason not to go in most cases. At the very least, I have a chance to eat better food and drink better whiskey than I do the rest of the year.

[kennethellenparcell]

Yeah the Career Center could be better...we all know that. I think the Chicago firms event is also for 2Ls and 3Ls which may be why it's scheduled simultaneously.

[Blumpbeef]

What was the NY event yesterday that apparently nobody went to?

[Cobretti]

This 1L apathy is kind of funny because we've spent all year being proud of our professors saying we had the fewest gunners of any year they'd taught, but I guess there is a downside.

What was the NY event yesterday that apparently nobody went to?

Lunch with NY firms in Lowden. I was there and we had at most probably 15 students show up. There were some pretty respectable firms too:
Cadwalader, Cleary, Paul Weiss, S&C and Weil

It was great for those of us that were there.

[Dr. Filth]

What was the NY event yesterday that apparently nobody went to?

A lunch slash networking thing with a bunch of NY employers in Lowden. It was good.

There was a "mandatory journal" thing at the same time, but it could be made up on Thursday afternoon. The journal thing was over at one though, and all the employers stuck around until at least 130.

[rayiner]

1L recruiting events matter in the aggregate, because it shows firms that students are serious about wanting to work for them. They are also good fodder for "hey I met Mr. So and So" which can be a good ice breaker. And also, if I recall correctly they have free food and drinks, so why would you skip them?

As for fall recruiting meetings, they kind of have to do them now because after finals everyone will peace out. I personally don't think you need to think about recruiting until after finals. Just go to the meetings, write down what is said, and visit after finals. Do listen to what OCS says. At least when I was there (2009-2012), OCS was pretty on the ball. I really liked Bill Chamberlain, who isn't there any more but knew a lot about bidding, though I don't know anything about his replacement. At the very least, they have a ton of information and institutional knowledge that you don't, so it's worth considering.

I agree with kennethellenparcell that you guys should be afraid about getting jobs. Northwestern has good placement, but the economy blows and it is inevitable that lots of people will strike out. I remember a former TLS member posting something about NU's 2008 OCI (which had just happened at the time), which was along the lines of "everybody who wasn't in the bottom 20% got a job, and even some people in the bottom 20% got a job." This is no longer the era of 74% NLJ 250 placement at Northwestern (http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... hart_2.jpg). It's no longer the era of 1,000 SA positions in Chicago. That's long gone.

A special word of warning to people who want to do public interest. It's a huge mistake to think that your hiring timeline is later than that of folks looking to do private sector work. Public interest hiring is a total disaster. I think everyone I know from C/O 2012 has found a permanent job, but some of the PI folks (even ones with very good grades) did so just in the last six months. Start pounding the pavement early, do not count on your summer internship leading to a job, etc.

Finally: after 1L finals are over, job searching is your full-time job. I know too many people who, when they struck out at OCI, redoubled their efforts in class, journal, etc. Unless you're shooting for SCOTUS, nobody gives a shit about whether you do e-board on your journal,[1] etc. Take easy classes first semester of 2L, schedule callbacks at the first possible opportunity and skip any classes that get in the way. Don't be picky about where you apply, and send out hundreds of applications between August and October.

[1] I can't express how deeply unimportant journal is. "Mandatory" journal events are anything but, and there are absolutely no consequences for skipping them. Until you have a job, journal should be a dead-last priority.

[rayiner]

Daniel Gandert or Lynn Cohn for Negotiations this summer? Priorities: 1. Easier grader 2. Better Professor.

Gandert is a great guy. He was at my wedding!

[LRGhost]

Also, meet the CA employers was moved from lunch to when 75% of the 1L class has class this morning.

That kind of sucked. I don't mind missing a few minutes of class but it's just such sloppy organization. And what do you think happens when you have ~20 minutes to talk to five groups of people?

[bjsesq]

Daniel Gandert or Lynn Cohn for Negotiations this summer? Priorities: 1. Easier grader 2. Better Professor.

Gandert is a great guy. He was at my wedding!

He really is an amazing dude.

[Micdiddy]

Daniel Gandert or Lynn Cohn for Negotiations this summer? Priorities: 1. Easier grader 2. Better Professor.

Gandert is a great guy. He was at my wedding!

He really is an amazing dude.

Cool. Looking at the CTECs it does seem Cohn is for AJD's, though I am not sure if that means solely for AJD's. It seems Gandert is the way to go anyway though. Thanks for the input.

[Micdiddy]

Just though the 2 and 3 LSAT would like to know The whole 1L class is being openly shamed for our lack if attendance at employer events at this mandatory meeting.

[d cooper]

.

[Cobretti]

Just though the 2 and 3 LSAT would like to know The whole 1L class is being openly shamed for our lack if attendance at employer events at this mandatory meeting.

2Ls were also shamed for not filling out their interview trackers. Your apathy reflects poorly on all of us guys, let's get it together.

ETA: More importantly though, Dave took off the gloves and declared war on TLS conventional wisdom for bidding. He said most of his time in meetings with students going over bid lists was spent dispelling misinformation they had read on TLS.

[d cooper]

Just though the 2 and 3 LSAT would like to know The whole 1L class is being openly shamed for our lack if attendance at employer events at this mandatory meeting.

2Ls were also shamed for not filling out their interview trackers. Your apathy reflects poorly on all of us guys, let's get it together.

ETA: More importantly though, Dave took off the gloves and declared war on TLS conventional wisdom for bidding. He said most of his time in meetings with students going over bid lists was spent dispelling misinformation they had read on TLS.

Like what? Was he disputing that you shouldn't bid Chicago because NYC is a safer bet?

[Cobretti]

Just though the 2 and 3 LSAT would like to know The whole 1L class is being openly shamed for our lack if attendance at employer events at this mandatory meeting.

2Ls were also shamed for not filling out their interview trackers. Your apathy reflects poorly on all of us guys, let's get it together.

ETA: More importantly though, Dave took off the gloves and declared war on TLS conventional wisdom for bidding. He said most of his time in meetings with students going over bid lists was spent dispelling misinformation they had read on TLS.

Like what? Was he disputing that you shouldn't bid Chicago because NYC is a safer bet?

He didn't really go into specifics, it was more that we should be going to them to tweak our bid list instead of posting in the legal employment thread, which he apparently monitors.

[LRGhost]

Just though the 2 and 3 LSAT would like to know The whole 1L class is being openly shamed for our lack if attendance at employer events at this mandatory meeting.

2Ls were also shamed for not filling out their interview trackers. Your apathy reflects poorly on all of us guys, let's get it together.

ETA: More importantly though, Dave took off the gloves and declared war on TLS conventional wisdom for bidding. He said most of his time in meetings with students going over bid lists was spent dispelling misinformation they had read on TLS.

Like what? Was he disputing that you shouldn't bid Chicago because NYC is a safer bet?

It'd be great if he went into detail about stuff like that at the presentation or if they would host something more informative before OCI.

[Dr. Filth]

The Legal Employment series thing is supposed to be that I think, LRGhost, but iirc they were just like if you are at median mass mail. If you are top 25% you're good for any Chicago firm. And between median and top 25% you're good for everywhere except like Kirkland, Sidley, Jenner type firms. Sort of reductive, but they didn't seem to have the urgency that TLS does.

So lol at that. I'm going to stick with TLS.

[homestyle28]

Just though the 2 and 3 LSAT would like to know The whole 1L class is being openly shamed for our lack if attendance at employer events at this mandatory meeting.

2Ls were also shamed for not filling out their interview trackers. Your apathy reflects poorly on all of us guys, let's get it together.

ETA: More importantly though, Dave took off the gloves and declared war on TLS conventional wisdom for bidding. He said most of his time in meetings with students going over bid lists was spent dispelling misinformation they had read on TLS.

Like what? Was he disputing that you shouldn't bid Chicago because NYC is a safer bet?

He didn't really go into specifics, it was more that we should be going to them to tweak our bid list instead of posting in the legal employment thread, which he apparently monitors.

This is true. Also, historically there was Dave and then every other CSO adviser in terms of quality advice. Maybe that's getting better, but I'd be suspect. If Dave is your adviser, you're in capable hands and alot of the advice will overlap. At least in my experience.