Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[RMstratosphere]

Well a lot of stuff gets exaggerated in a law school class. If he really said that a guy's resume was toilet paper, then yeah, that's a bit harsh. Then again, he might have really been saying what many hiring partners were thinking about the resume. At least now the guy knows he needs to improve the resume... Again though, I wouldn't have said toilet paper...

1. Yes it does. In this case, it wasn't.
2. The Charmin-esque resume, with very minor tweaks, got me a job pretty quickly this summer.

Alright, back to lurking.

-Not Edelstein

Dammmmn.

[Spoonmanners]

Luckily for OP, they aren't going to Drexel: http://philadelphia.bizjournals.com/phi ... 00^2907431

Top 5% there had serious trouble getting a job. Also discusses many firms removing all summer internships, and the ones that have kept it have decreased their offers by around 50%. The market sucks.

[Bankhead]

'grats on the job, Leif!

[RMstratosphere]

So all the NLJ250 & Clerkship stats that came out today kind of terrified me. Anyone have a positive spin?

The following clarification (made by another poster in a different thread) really helped me to understand what I was looking at. I hope that it proves helpful for other readers who shared my initial shock.

It is NOT:
* The Class of 2012, who does OCI in August
* The Class of 2011, who did OCI a few months ago
* The Class of 2010, who did OCI over a year(!) ago

It IS the class of 2009, who:
* Graduated from law school in 2009
* Summered for their firm in 2008
* Did OCI / recruitment in 2007
* Started law school in 2006

I was under the impression that C/O 2009 meant students who enrolled in 2009 and would graduate in 2012. Clearly, I was wrong.

Edit: Grammar fail.

[Vincent Vega]

That's a valid point. I think that right now IU is probably doing just as well as most of its peer schools. Obviously that is just perception with no facts to back it up. Who needs facts, anyway?!?!?!

[RMstratosphere]

That's a valid point. I think that right now IU is probably doing just as well as most of its peer schools. Obviously that is just perception with no facts to back it up. Who needs facts, anyway?!?!?!

Facts? We ain't got no facts. We don't need no facts!

--ImageRemoved--

[the_assassin]

Facts that lend credence to the argument IU is overanked and that its not doing as well as peer schools. Not saying I agree one way or the other. Scroll down to the bottom of the link for schools #21-#49. Discusses top placing classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships).
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

[Vincent Vega]

Facts that lend credence to the argument IU is overanked and that its not doing as well as peer schools. Not saying I agree one way or the other. Scroll down to the bottom of the link for schools #21-#49. Discusses top placing classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships).
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

That's already been discussed here.

[Vincent Vega]

Facts that lend credence to the argument IU is overanked and that its not doing as well as peer schools. Not saying I agree one way or the other. Scroll down to the bottom of the link for schools #21-#49. Discusses top placing classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships).
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

That's already been discussed here.

And, again, these stats are three years old.

[the_assassin]

Just skipped to the last page, hopefully it helps those who do the same.

[RMstratosphere]

Facts that lend credence to the argument IU is overanked and that its not doing as well as peer schools. Not saying I agree one way or the other. Scroll down to the bottom of the link for schools #21-#49. Discusses top placing classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships).
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

[the_assassin]

Cant imagine placement will change that drastically over the next few years.

[the_assassin]

I take it you both go/will be going to IU?

[the_assassin]

Suppose that information has already been posted also.

[Vincent Vega]

Suppose that information has already been posted also.

This has, too: http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/edu ... deo_flag=0

Since you seem to be into employment rankings, you can see that IU is ranked 14th by Vault (determined by employer reputation score).

[the_assassin]

Since you seem to be into employment rankings, you can see that IU is ranked 14th by Vault (determined by employer reputation score).

Whys that? I just posted a link I thought would be helpful. Also, according to the stats posted in the link, it doesn't seem that IUs reputation is helping grads get jobs.

[the_assassin]

Great link. Unfortunately, it tells one next to nothing. IU is ahead of many schools that are vastly superior in every regard.

[kings84_wr]

First as pointed out above 2009 stats are from several years ago, when IU was in fact in the 30's or wherever.

Second saying that schools are vastly superior in every regard is pretty absurd. Your point seems to be schools are superior at getting big-law jobs, and that is true. To be honest a good deal of people at IU don't want Big-law. But IU is at least equal if not superior in academics, profs, the Campus, and importantly having lots of money to spend on students and programs

Edit: If you are talking about the Vault ranking then yeah obvoiusly IU isnt better hten UCLA, Cornell and G-town etc

[agentcom]

From a couple pages ago:

I'm trying to decide whether or not to do the summer start. Mostly I want to enjoy my summer. Would you say it gave you a major advantage in terms of study techniques, making friends, etc?

Thanks.

I just wanted to put in my qualified plug for summer start for those who are considering it. I feel that you should consider summer start if you have taken some time off from school and are ready to get back or you're super motivated to begin law school. If I was a senior looking at starting law school a month after graduation, I would pass on that quickly.

IF you fall in to one of those categories, then I would point out what was awesome about summer start. Having the same classes with the same people every day really allows you to develop a close group of friends quickly. The summer starters aren't any better or more social than the fall starters, but got to hang out for over a month spending four hours a day in the same classroom and then hanging out more when the weekend (or, to be honest, Wednesday through Saturday) arrived.

Plus, summer start allowed us to get in the swing of law school and make some observations and learn some lessons sooner and with fewer credits at stake than the fall starters. I definitely studied less during the fall semester and got better grades.

It seems like most of the summer starters are pretty burned out at this point and just drink all the time... plus, you get lumped into a class first semester (crim pro) with a bunch of 2L's. For the 1L's, grade wise, it was basically a slaughterfest.

Yes we have figured out that you do not have to study all day every day to succeed in law school.

As to the crim pro class: We happened to be paired with a particularly skilled group of 2Ls many of whom did summer start last year and actually beat the average grade in a class comprised of students a year ahead of them. Plus crim pro sucked in general as it was taught by a professor who does not normally teach that class. We just got unlucky.

The biggest downside to summer start, IMO, was Gjerdingen. You'll get a chance to meet him during SLD. Presumably he'll be doing the mock class for y'all. Not everyone agrees with me, but quite a few people did not like him.

[kings84_wr]

Interesting, not a Hoff or Gjerdy fan?

[Unjust Enrichment]

Interesting, not a Hoff or Gjerdy fan?

Hoffmann was decidedly worse in crim pro than in crim law, I think most of us who had him for both would attest.

[Mulliganstew]

Gjerdingen is one of those professors who has a style (all lecture) that I don't really like, but he was very willing to help people outside of class.

[agentcom]

[Edit: I am responding to Kings]

My feelings about both are more complex than that, but for the purposes of picking classes I'd say you're right.

Hoff: He's here to do research. He is good at it. He is an excellent scholar and knows ALOT of stuff about crim pro (though trials--the other semester--is his specialty). I've found him to be willing to answer questions of students, and he tries to clarify things. Sometimes too much though as he indulged a lot of supergunners. I mean there were some ridiculous comments in that class that wasted everyone's time. That part was horrible.

Gjerd.: I think he is a fantastic person. He definitely and truly cares about his students. That said I found his course to be unfocused and wandering. I learned almost everything for the class by reading out of the book (which was good). I found the lectures added little or nothing to my understanding of tort law. He did the opposite of Hoff and would completely dismiss student comments. It didn't matter if a student made a wonderful or horrible comment, Gjerd would simply mutilate their question/comment to fit what he was talking about anyway and move right back to his lecture leaving the students feeling that the student and Gjerd had just talked past eachother.

Note: I've heard Gjerd has changed some parts of his teaching methods significantly since summer start, so who knows if you can take past reports as indications of his what his future classes will be like.

[Mulliganstew]

[Edit: I am responding to Kings]

My feelings about both are more complex than that, but for the purposes of picking classes I'd say you're right.

Hoff: He's here to do research. He is good at it. He is an excellent scholar and knows ALOT of stuff about crim pro (though trials--the other semester--is his specialty). I've found him to be willing to answer questions of students, and he tries to clarify things. Sometimes too much though as he indulged a lot of supergunners. I mean there were some ridiculous comments in that class that wasted everyone's time. That part was horrible.

Gjerd.: I think he is a fantastic person. He definitely and truly cares about his students. That said I found his course to be unfocused and wandering. I learned almost everything for the class by reading out of the book (which was good). I found the lectures added little or nothing to my understanding of tort law. He did the opposite of Hoff and would completely dismiss student comments. It didn't matter if a student made a wonderful or horrible comment, Gjerd would simply mutilate their question/comment to fit what he was talking about anyway and move right back to his lecture leaving the students feeling that the student and Gjerd had just talked past eachother.

Note: I've heard Gjerd has changed some parts of his teaching methods significantly since summer start, so who knows if you can take past reports as indications of his what his future classes will be like.

FWIW, I had him in the fall and Gjerdingen didn't even really take questions in class.

[danquayle]

Gjerdingen is easily the worst (tenured) professor at the school. Would be great as the dean of admissions or some other type of student-facing administrative job (which is what he wants anyways), but not as a professor, and certainly not one in a substance heavy subject.

If you have Gjerdingen be prepared to get to know Emmanuel or Gilbert very, very well.