Northwestern 1L/2L/3L/Grads Taking Questions and Challenges Forum

[crumpetsandtea]

So, I was clicking around, checking out my top choices' ratings on LST.

Northwestern had the highest alumni and student rating for practicality of the classes and coursework required.

Do you guys feel like the work you're doing in the classroom is actually useful in practical application (externships, SA positions, etc.)? NU has a reputation of being a law school run like a business school (ie giving presentations, etc.), and I kind of like the idea of that.

Classroom work? Honestly, I feel like most of the time this is relatively not useful for practical application unless you are writing a memo for an adjunct professor (and even then, minimal benefit). If you really want practical work, you should do a practicum or a clinic during the school year. Practicum = you do an externship while simultaneously taking a class for 4 credits. Clinic = you work in a clinic where you are given real clients and assignments to work on. Both are the best ways to get practical experience during law school, in my opinion.

On a scale of 1 to fucked, how fucked am I in the 1L job hunt if I've only applied to a few Symplicity listings so far? What should my top priorities be to reduce my degree of fuckedness, aside from continuing to apply to Symplicity listings? It's 1L work so I really just want anything law-related that I can talk about at OCI, no strong preferences (although for unpaid work, being in Chicago or LA would make summer funding much less problematic). Good first semester GPA, but nothing else about my resume is particularly impressive. Career Services told me about a bunch of different ways to search for a bunch of different kinds of legal jobs by a bunch of different search criteria... But I don't really know where to start looking for jobs that would be open to 1Ls, and CS didn't seem to know of any tools other than Symplicity that clearly indicate which jobs are 1L-friendly.

TL;DR: clueless 1L, behind on job search, halp?

First off: relax. It's 1L. Your job is not going to make or break you, as long as you have one. I have a friend who didn't find a job until like, 2 weeks before the end of the school year. While that's not advisable, it is possible, so you're fine.

With that said, it really depends on your goals. If you want an SA I would be looking at diversity scholarships right now trying to gun it. Reach out to local firms and ask them what they offer for 1Ls. I'm not sure of the timeline for this but I think it's not over yet, so you should have time. Keep in mind you will likely need to be 1) diverse and 2) in a good position gradewise for this to happen.

For government positions, I would check CareerSpace and with CSO to make sure you're not missing deadlines. For PI, it's much more relaxed. Check PJSD like rinkrat suggested, and also just look at the PILI website and see if there is anything that interests you. Try to market yourself to things that you have a history of working with, because that will help you for PI.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

[whereskyle]

Anyone know when the writing competition usually is? I need to give a start/end date for my summer position?
Also, when does OCI usually start?

Thanks so much!

Assuming that last year was typical, you can pick up the writing competition packet after the boat cruise on the last day of exams (so May 8 this year), and it was due a week later. I, like many people, picked up the packet the next day.

OCI was two weeks long and there was a week between it and the start of classes (1L orientation week). Classes start Sept 2 next fall.

So, just to clear this up... Students interview for 2L SAs before the start of 2L year?

[Kikero]

So, just to clear this up... Students interview for 2L SAs before the start of 2L year?

Yes. And that's the same pretty much everywhere (at least at top tier schools, I think I read something about "year round OCI" somewhere) although the exact start dates for OCI will vary from school to school.

[Solistus]

Thanks for the advice, rinkrat and crumpets! I'm gonna try to finish cover letters and apply to everything I've found so far on Symplicity, apply to some PILI internships, look at the latest CS update on upcoming gov't deadlines, and start looking through PSJD and the gov't internships handbook to identify more potential employers over the weekend.

As for firms... There are a couple SA spots open to 1Ls still trickling in on Symplicity that I'm applying to. I'm decidedly non-diverse, so I'm thinking firm jobs are not a very serious possibility this first summer regardless of grades. Is it worth the time to make a list of firms to massmail resumes on the off chance they might want a 1L SA, or should I just focus on PI and govt internships?

Are there any particular types of employers that tend to care more or less about GPA? It's the strongest part of my resume, so if there are any clear patterns about which employers give it the most weight when deciding who is worth interviewing, then I should probably be prioritizing those employers.

Also, I'm a worrywort and you guys were just talking about it, so 2L OCI - I don't have to think about or do anything regarding fall OCI for now, right? When does bidding start?

[Kikero]

No, don't think about OCI until after finals, writing competition, vacation, etc. I don't remember the exact date bidding starts, but it's in July. You might want to think about mass mailing before bidding, but even that shouldn't be until June.

[lgleye]

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[crumpetsandtea]

Thanks for the advice, rinkrat and crumpets! I'm gonna try to finish cover letters and apply to everything I've found so far on Symplicity, apply to some PILI internships, look at the latest CS update on upcoming gov't deadlines, and start looking through PSJD and the gov't internships handbook to identify more potential employers over the weekend.

As for firms... There are a couple SA spots open to 1Ls still trickling in on Symplicity that I'm applying to. I'm decidedly non-diverse, so I'm thinking firm jobs are not a very serious possibility this first summer regardless of grades. Is it worth the time to make a list of firms to massmail resumes on the off chance they might want a 1L SA, or should I just focus on PI and govt internships?

Are there any particular types of employers that tend to care more or less about GPA? It's the strongest part of my resume, so if there are any clear patterns about which employers give it the most weight when deciding who is worth interviewing, then I should probably be prioritizing those employers.

Also, I'm a worrywort and you guys were just talking about it, so 2L OCI - I don't have to think about or do anything regarding fall OCI for now, right? When does bidding start?

RE: Massmailing - don't do this unless you've checked (via NALP or some other website) that they actually hire 1Ls. A lot of firms don't. Massmailing dozens of firms who don't even hire 1Ls would be a supreme waste of your time. If you choose to focus on PI/Gov't, you will be fine for OCI and beyond. No one is going to think that's not good enough.

RE: GPA - it really depends. Of course, SAs will always value GPA highly, but in PI/Gov't it depends on where you are applying. There are some PI orgs that are very prestigious and will require good grades, and others won't even ask for your transcript. Ditto with government. Honestly though, there isn't really any issue with finding a job due to grades for your 1L summer. for 2L it will matter much more.

RE: 2L OCI - right now all you have worry about is keeping your grades up. In May/June, maybe start putting feelers out for potential diversity or market based career fairs (ie, Bay Area Diversity Career Fair, etc etc) that might get you some interviews before OCI begins, and start considering which markets you want to target/how you want to sell yourself. Bidding isn't an issue until July.

[Solistus]

Thanks again for the help.

I think I'll spend a little time on NALP when I get a chance to see how many 1L-friendly firms I can find. If they care more about GPA than other jobs, then maybe I have enough of an advantage there that my chances aren't as completely negligible as I assumed. An SA would be ideal for this summer, to get some experience in a firm before I commit to that route in 2L. Plus, the money is a lot better than any internship funding option I've seen, and being able to afford to live closer to campus next year would be nice. I'll focus most of my time elsewhere on more likely options, though.

[lgleye]

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[lgleye]

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[crumpetsandtea]

Anyone following the Kasowitz wreck? Spoke to a couple NU people there. In 2008-10, the firm was sizzling hot, in expansion mode. During my CB there last summer, you could feel the firm's kick-ass in-your-face atmosphere (not in a bad way..they were very nice to us interviewees).

Then they start reneging on their SA offers last fall, and now this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... KHmL742auw

For a 350+ (and decreasing) attorney firm to crash like this really sucks.

I know an NUer who got caught up in this, I think. Fucking horrible situation.

[homestyle28]

Anyone following the Kasowitz wreck? Spoke to a couple NU people there. In 2008-10, the firm was sizzling hot, in expansion mode. During my CB there last summer, you could feel the firm's kick-ass in-your-face atmosphere (not in a bad way..they were very nice to us interviewees).

Then they start reneging on their SA offers last fall, and now this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... KHmL742auw

For a 350+ (and decreasing) attorney firm to crash like this really sucks.

I know an NUer who got caught up in this, I think. Fucking horrible situation.

FWIW something like this happens almost every year (see Winston 2012). There is a small, but not insignificant, chance you'll get fucked by forces outside your control.

[franklyscarlet]

To All 1L's: There's a small exception to the rule that you shouldn't be doing anything to prep for 2L OCI at this point.......and that's if you've got any tech or science background, you should register for PLIP. It doesn't lock you into pursuing an IP career, but it gives you another option to meet firms.

Bidding for PLIP doesn't take place until June, but the deadline for the initial registration is coming up March 3rd. So take the 3 minutes NOW.

Quoting this because it needs to be said again. Career services doesn't do a very good job reminding people about this deadline and a LOT of IP people missed this very important job fair.

[Bumi]

To All 1L's: There's a small exception to the rule that you shouldn't be doing anything to prep for 2L OCI at this point.......and that's if you've got any tech or science background, you should register for PLIP. It doesn't lock you into pursuing an IP career, but it gives you another option to meet firms.

Bidding for PLIP doesn't take place until June, but the deadline for the initial registration is coming up March 3rd. So take the 3 minutes NOW.

Quoting this because it needs to be said again. Career services doesn't do a very good job reminding people about this deadline and a LOT of IP people missed this very important job fair.

Quick Loyola Patent Interview Fair FAQ:

Q: But I don't want to do IP!

A: Neither did I. Doesn't matter. Do it anyway. You can get access to firms you won't see at OCI and you can practice your interviewing. There is no downside.

Q: But I won't be in Chicago for it!

A: People fly in from all over the country to go to that thing. Lawyers, students, everyone. It's a big deal. Come back and go to it.

Q: There are a lot of firms in there in markets where I don't have ties. I will just not use all of my bids.

A: I made this mistake. This is a mistake. For IP, ties aren't so important. Two firms at this fair talked me into markets I hadn't bid on because I thought I couldn't get jobs in them. I got job offers in them. Then I kicked myself for not even using all my bids because surely a Seattle/Florida/Whatever firm wouldn't want me. Who knows if they would or wouldn't? Not me, I will never know.

Q: I can talk to any firm I want at OCI anyway.

A: It is shocking how few interviews you'll get at OCI, especially if you are interested in Chicago, and especially if you are interested in non-elite-GPA firms. You will wish you had talked to more firms, and this is one way to do it.

Bottom line: register for the loyola patent job fair.

[lgleye]

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[lgleye]

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[09042014]

A big +1 to registering for the patent fair, that's how I got my firm.

However, I think it should be noted that there are some things to consider.

If you get a screener with firm they likely won't to interview you again at OCI. So if you are only doing PLIP as a total safety move, don't bid on firms you really want to see at OCI for general practice.

Also while IP firms are generally less caring about ties, they still care somewhat. Don't go crazy and bid most of your slots on random firms.

[rinkrat19]

Related to PLIP: For you 1L's interested in the CA/TX markets, you might also consider registering for the SFIPLA job fair. For basic info, here's an outdated line http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... tvXNycgkqw
It's similar to PLIP, but much smaller. However, people registering form PLIP often register for the SFIPLA fair as well.
Deadline is in June, so put a reminder for yourself to register by that time.

There were only three NU students at SFIPLA last year. I got the impression that a lot of the other people there were not from Stanford and Boalt, they're from lower schools. Worth a trip if you want California IP. And (unlike Loyola) it's over a weekend so it makes traveling in the middle of summer work easier.

[Solistus]

Glad I checked this thread tonight. Silly me for taking the career office at their word when they said that we needed a tech/science undergrad to be eligible for PLIP...

[lgleye]

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[rinkrat19]

Anyone have a Shari Diamond Trademark outline? I have a couple of other TM outlines but the classes were clearly using a different book.

[d cooper]

There was recently a thread about attending the lower-T14 at sticker. Given NU's reputation for being splitter-friendly, sticker at NU can end up being a splitter applicant's only T14 option. Since NU's Biglaw stats are typically better than its peers, this is arguably a saner choice than some of the other lower-T14 schools.

So, to those for whom this is relevant: How do you feel about your decision to pay sticker (or close to it)? Would you do it again?

[Blumpbeef]

There was recently a thread about attending the lower-T14 at sticker. Given NU's reputation for being splitter-friendly, sticker at NU can end up being a splitter applicant's only T14 option. Since its Biglaw stats are typically better than its peer schools, this is arguably a saner choice than some of the other lower-T14 schools.

So, to those for whom this is relevant: How do you feel about your decision to pay sticker (or close to it)? Would you do it again?

It sucks, but it isn't necessarily a bad option. I had half scholarships at T30 schools and I think NU was the right choice. If you want biglaw, placement at NU is so much better. If your dad owns a law firm or if you have a hard IP background it might make sense to take the money at another school, but otherwise a T14 is worth it.

Still fucking sucks though.

[jn7]

Anyone have a Shari Diamond Trademark outline? I have a couple of other TM outlines but the classes were clearly using a different book.

If anybody also has a Hughes 14th amendment outline, would be greatly appreciated

[Dr. Filth]

There was recently a thread about attending the lower-T14 at sticker. Given NU's reputation for being splitter-friendly, sticker at NU can end up being a splitter applicant's only T14 option. Since NU's Biglaw stats are typically better than its peers, this is arguably a saner choice than some of the other lower-T14 schools.

So, to those for whom this is relevant: How do you feel about your decision to pay sticker (or close to it)? Would you do it again?

+1 to all of blump's stuff

i always thought there was a break-even point of debt where i might as well just increase my big law (+ other good jobs) odds. a half tuition scholarship at a good non-T14 is still going to leave you in a shit ton of debt, and you will have to have a high paying job to not have the interest swallow you whole.

plus if you strike out from here, there's always PAYE!

/1L that came from a shitty liberal arts + shitty job background