Indiana University - Bloomington students taking questions Forum

[Bankhead]

We've always been lower than Wisconsin in big law placement... not sure what the big issue is there.

Yes, we dropped 5%. Most schools did. (Although it's such a pain in the ass to try to find 2009's numbers to compare.)

Does it suck that our numbers went down? Yeah. Do I think we don't belong in the same league as Illinois and Wisconsin? No. I actually think Indiana, as a whole, is a better school than Illinois. Illinois' biggest thing going for it is its relatively close distance to Chicago combined with its past reputation. With all of the corrupt practices going on there, I fully expect it to drop below Indiana in the rankings in this spring's US News list.

Always lower than Wisconsin? Really? I didn't know Wisconsin was this big law powerhouse...

How do you know how much we dropped?

You've made the conclusory assertion that IU is a better school than Illinois in at least 3 threads now. But you never support it. Truthfully, you've not been a 1L at both schools, so it's impossible for you to make that claim with any type of sincerity.

I'm working off of what I remember from when I was in my 0L cycle. Which would put Indiana at about 15% for Big Law. Could not honestly tell you where I got that from, but it may be that poster that's hanging up in OCPD.

Google the 2005 nlj 250 placements. Wisconsin was above us then too. You don't need to be a big law powerhouse to place a little over 16% of your class in big law. On the other hand, you don't need to place that much to be considered a successful law school either.

I know we are currently tied in rankings. I also know that Illinois has had a year of bad marketing and media attention behind it whereas Indiana had one of the largest donations in the history of the school. I was making a prediction, but then you seem to dislike anything good being said about IUB or, apparently, even the city of Indianapolis, Bankhead.

Here's sincerity for you. I am extremely glad I'm going to IUB. I wouldn't switch it for Illinois, Wisconsin, or Wake Forest. (I certainly wouldn't switch it for OSU.)

Tell you what, let's take this to PM's and not clog up this thread with ridiculous internet arguments.

Ok, just le thte record show that I don't only say negative things about IU... look about 7 posts back and you'll see that isnt' true.

[Bankhead]

I've had the exact opposite experiences with OCPD, Spoon. They've been very helpful in hooking me up with potential contacts.

You must have had Caroline, as she is the only person that has really come recommended out of the office. I didn't have her. I was given one contact, but it wasn't in the area I wanted to practice in. And it wasn't really what I wanted to do anyways. I have been disappointed with what I hoping to get out of OCPD. They have been nice, and have given me help, but nothing that has really helped me with a potential contact to get a job/internship. I've been doing my own leg work.

As a side note, Wisconsin has always had great employment numbers. At least for the past few years, their salaries and numbers have been great, but they turned me way off during their application process. Even if I hate them, I believe all their salary averages/medians/what-have-you are substantially higher than ours.

Well, to be fair, they haven't handed me a person hiring on a silver platter, but they've definitely given me contact info. That said, the guy they brought in at the end of last semester was the biggest jerk in the history of the legal practice.

Haha, I think that guy is the best thing they got going... we just aren't going to agree on anything! He'll tell it to ya straight...

[chicoalto0649]

We've always been lower than Wisconsin in big law placement... not sure what the big issue is there.

Yes, we dropped 5%. Most schools did. (Although it's such a pain in the ass to try to find 2009's numbers to compare.)

Does it suck that our numbers went down? Yeah. Do I think we don't belong in the same league as Illinois and Wisconsin? No. I actually think Indiana, as a whole, is a better school than Illinois. Illinois' biggest thing going for it is its relatively close distance to Chicago combined with its past reputation. With all of the corrupt practices going on there, I fully expect it to drop below Indiana in the rankings in this spring's US News list.

Always lower than Wisconsin? Really? I didn't know Wisconsin was this big law powerhouse...

How do you know how much we dropped?

You've made the conclusory assertion that IU is a better school than Illinois in at least 3 threads now. But you never support it. Truthfully, you've not been a 1L at both schools, so it's impossible for you to make that claim with any type of sincerity.

I'm working off of what I remember from when I was in my 0L cycle. Which would put Indiana at about 15% for Big Law. Could not honestly tell you where I got that from, but it may be that poster that's hanging up in OCPD.

Google the 2005 nlj 250 placements. Wisconsin was above us then too. You don't need to be a big law powerhouse to place a little over 16% of your class in big law. On the other hand, you don't need to place that much to be considered a successful law school either.

I know we are currently tied in rankings. I also know that Illinois has had a year of bad marketing and media attention behind it whereas Indiana had one of the largest donations in the history of the school. I was making a prediction, but then you seem to dislike anything good being said about IUB or, apparently, even the city of Indianapolis, Bankhead.

Here's sincerity for you. I am extremely glad I'm going to IUB. I wouldn't switch it for Illinois, Wisconsin, or Wake Forest. (I certainly wouldn't switch it for OSU.)

Tell you what, let's take this to PM's and not clog up this thread with ridiculous internet arguments.

Ok, just le thte record show that I don't only say negative things about IU... look about 7 posts back and you'll see that isnt' true.

Wats wrong with osu?

[Spoonmanners]

I've had the exact opposite experiences with OCPD, Spoon. They've been very helpful in hooking me up with potential contacts.

You must have had Caroline, as she is the only person that has really come recommended out of the office. I didn't have her. I was given one contact, but it wasn't in the area I wanted to practice in. And it wasn't really what I wanted to do anyways. I have been disappointed with what I hoping to get out of OCPD. They have been nice, and have given me help, but nothing that has really helped me with a potential contact to get a job/internship. I've been doing my own leg work.

As a side note, Wisconsin has always had great employment numbers. At least for the past few years, their salaries and numbers have been great, but they turned me way off during their application process. Even if I hate them, I believe all their salary averages/medians/what-have-you are substantially higher than ours.

Well, to be fair, they haven't handed me a person hiring on a silver platter, but they've definitely given me contact info. That said, the guy they brought in at the end of last semester was the biggest jerk in the history of the legal practice.

I know who you are talking about. I never met with him, but I would be willing to bet he would tell me he would eat my babies (because everything is like IASIP). Did you see him? Cause man, that was unbelievable.

No, it wasn't him, but it's not what I want to do or where I want to do it. No big deal, but it's all I got. (I also haven't heard back from them. I never thought it would be so hard to give away 10 weeks of summer).

[Mulliganstew]

Haha, I think that guy is the best thing they got going... we just aren't going to agree on anything! He'll tell it to ya straight...

Difference between straight and outright being unhelpful. You have to have heard about what <jerk they brought in> said about using the guy's resume as toilet paper right? I'm pretty sure everyone in our class has heard that one by now.

He only told me that what I was interested in literally didn't have a job to go along with it. He acted like I had made up this crazy idea of soft intellectual property. Which, admittedly, is really hard to get in to, but I do have contacts.

Oh speaking of which, I heard that the school is going to start offering credits for private firm work as well during the summer. (as long as you don't get paid) Looks like Indiana is working on its own little co-op system of sorts.

[Spoonmanners]

Wats wrong with osu?

Nothing. I like OSU. This may be unrelated, but it is hilarious: --LinkRemoved--

If anything, I hope we stay off ATL.

[Spoonmanners]

Difference between straight and outright being unhelpful. You have to have heard about what [random name] said about using the guy's resume as toilet paper right? I'm pretty sure everyone in our class has heard that one by now.

He only told me that what I was interested in literally didn't have a job to go along with it. He acted like I had made up this crazy idea of soft intellectual property.

At least [respective sex of theoretical individual who may or may not be real] didn't tell you that you need to drop out. A month before you ever get grades. (He is quite the motivational speaker) From the limited interaction I have had with anyone from [random firm from random city], they are all pricks.

[Edited to protect the guilty.]

And I thought the general phrase was he would wipe his ass with said persons resume. Said person having a legit job for years before coming to law school.

[Mulliganstew]

So apparently he/she told more than one person to drop out. He/She told my friend to drop out too. That's special.

[Spoonmanners]

So apparently he/she told more than one person to drop out. He/She told my friend to drop out too. That's special.

Does he still work there? It was pretty clear he got a stern talking to, and I haven't heard his name since. I think he has more knowledge of what I'm trying to do than my current OCPD guy. As long as he doesn't tell me to drop out he might be helpful.

[chicoalto0649]

So apparently he/she told more than one person to drop out. He/She told my friend to drop out too. That's special.

[Spoonmanners]

So apparently he/she told more than one person to drop out. He/She told my friend to drop out too. That's special.

No. Kidding. You wonder why there is little good to say about OCPD. They really need to rework their legal writing class, the OCPD, and they should probably give law students free parking

[Mulliganstew]

I think we can all agree on free parking. Just level the gas station, Chow Bar, and Penn Station and turn it into a parking lot only for law students.

Rebuild the Chow Bar though. I think they're the only bubble tea place in town.

[Vincent Vega]

When do 1L's need to be in Bloomington in the fall? The academic calendar says classes start on Aug. 25, but is there any kind of orientation or something that we need to be there early for?

[Unjust Enrichment]

So apparently he/she told more than one person to drop out. He/She told my friend to drop out too. That's special.

Does he still work there? It was pretty clear he got a stern talking to, and I haven't heard his name since. I think he has more knowledge of what I'm trying to do than my current OCPD guy. As long as he doesn't tell me to drop out he might be helpful.

I saw him in the hallway about a month ago. And the legal professions curriculum still mentions his name as someone you can get in contact with. So, I think they stayed away from outright firing him, but I think his involvement is limited now, either by design or because his reputation is so tarnished within our class that nobody wants to go near him.

I met with him. Based on the half hour of my life that I spent with him, I saw no redeeming qualities of any kind. Tough love is useful. That man is not. Hiring him was nothing more than a horrible mistake. With that said, he's the only black mark on OCPD that I can see, they're otherwise extremely useful in my experience.

[Spoonmanners]

I think we can all agree on free parking. Just level the gas station, Chow Bar, and Penn Station and turn it into a parking lot only for law students.

Rebuild the Chow Bar though. I think they're the only bubble tea place in town.

Bubble Tea is so 2001. Leave Penn Station. Just knock down the Qdoba and whole LRW building. Nothing will be missed. Give the overworked, overstressed, and underfunded law students a little plus in their day by being able to park down there for free (or maybe even just a reasonable rate).

When do 1L's need to be in Bloomington in the fall? The academic calendar says classes start on Aug. 25, but is there any kind of orientation or something that we need to be there early for?

Come at least a few days early. You will want to get your internet/tv hooked up (which gets backed up around here when everyone moves into town). You also do not want to be the guy who misses the bus and has to run 30 blocks to get to school. It's a great little town I would highly recommend trying to get to know. I would kill for a week to just hit up Lake Monroe and maybe downtown a few times. If there is another orientation, to be totally honest, you don't need to show up for it.

[Bankhead]

Haha, I think that guy is the best thing they got going... we just aren't going to agree on anything! He'll tell it to ya straight...

Difference between straight and outright being unhelpful. You have to have heard about what <jerk they brought in> said about using the guy's resume as toilet paper right? I'm pretty sure everyone in our class has heard that one by now.

He only told me that what I was interested in literally didn't have a job to go along with it. He acted like I had made up this crazy idea of soft intellectual property. Which, admittedly, is really hard to get in to, but I do have contacts.

Oh speaking of which, I heard that the school is going to start offering credits for private firm work as well during the summer. (as long as you don't get paid) Looks like Indiana is working on its own little co-op system of sorts.

Well a lot of stuff gets exaggerated in a law school class. If he really said that a guy's resume was toilet paper, then yeah, that's a bit harsh. Then again, he might have really been saying what many hiring partners were thinking about the resume. At least now the guy knows he needs to improve the resume... Again though, I wouldn't have said toilet paper...

EDIT: ok, if he also said that people should be dropping out before grades come out I can't really defend him.

[Bankhead]

I think we can all agree on free parking. Just level the gas station, Chow Bar, and Penn Station and turn it into a parking lot only for law students.

Rebuild the Chow Bar though. I think they're the only bubble tea place in town.

There is a place on 3rd and Jordan (same shopping center as Dragon Express) that has bubble tea. Never tried it though.

[kings84_wr]

To be fair at least one of the guys he told to drop out was because the guy wasn't going to pass the ethics bar, in his opinion ( I think there were several drug issues). The toilet paper thing is definitely true. But some of my friends claimed he was actually really friendly and cool to them, and his connections are solid.

I know its a bid deal with the new NLJ charts, but to be honest Im not all that surprised. Its disheartening, especially the clerkship numbers, but not too shocking to me.

edit to add: I think its nice to get the different perspectives from Partner's at large firms. I personally like steele more then the toilet paper resume guy, because He can tell it like it is, but at the same time not come off as a douche. However I hope they didn't fire the Indy guy, cuz to be honest IU needs as many resources as possible, and that dude had connections.

[Unjust Enrichment]

To be fair at least one of the guys he told to drop out was because the guy wasn't going to pass the ethics bar, in his opinion ( I think there were several drug issues). The toilet paper thing is definitely true. But some of my friends claimed he was actually really friendly and cool to them, and his connections are solid.

After he spent several days treating everyone horribly, word got around and he seemingly got smacked down. After that time, he seemingly acted nicer (I had friends who said as much also), but I didn't hear of him being particularly helpful even then. His resume as an attorney was obviously quite good, so I don't doubt he's connected, but I guess I haven't heard of him actually being very helpful to anyone. I personally got absolutely nothing out of my appointment with him.

[kings84_wr]

Yeah I havent met with him, in fact the only time Ive even seen the guy was that required meeting, a couple of my friends were convinced the guy had been doing some drinking before their meeting haha.

The stupid paper for Leg Profession has got me worried too. Face to face interviews with attorneys are not so easy to come by.

[Mulliganstew]

This kind of got buried, but it's at least some good news in all of this nlj 250 harshness.

We'll now be able to get credits and school loans to work at private firms over the summer. This is great in a couple of ways. One: It gives an incentive for private firms to take us on since they won't have to pay us. (We only get the loans if we can make it volunteer work for school credit.) Two: We have more options available to us since we won't have to pass up firm opportunities where we don't have places to live now.


Edit: As far as the legal professions paper, Carwena told us that we can use the Thursday talks as interviews as long as we get three good questions in.

[kings84_wr]

This kind of got buried, but it's at least some good news in all of this nlj 250 harshness.

We'll now be able to get credits and school loans to work at private firms over the summer. This is great in a couple of ways. One: It gives an incentive for private firms to take us on since they won't have to pay us. (We only get the loans if we can make it volunteer work for school credit.) Two: We have more options available to us since we won't have to pass up firm opportunities where we don't have places to live now.


Edit: As far as the legal professions paper, Carwena told us that we can use the Thursday talks as interviews as long as we get three good questions in.

Interesting, Steele is an awesome prof and his resume is great, but I dont think he knows what the hell is going with the paper requirement. Everyone in our class is totally lost on the paper and what counts.

Mulligan have you had any luck in summer job search? It seems like its been pretty rough.

and Mabye we'll get to face off in our LRW oral arguments, if we do take it easy on me haha.

[badwithpseudonyms]

This kind of got buried, but it's at least some good news in all of this nlj 250 harshness.

We'll now be able to get credits and school loans to work at private firms over the summer. This is great in a couple of ways. One: It gives an incentive for private firms to take us on since they won't have to pay us. (We only get the loans if we can make it volunteer work for school credit.) Two: We have more options available to us since we won't have to pass up firm opportunities where we don't have places to live now.

I think I saw this on the agenda for SLD, and I kind of rolled my eyes at however it was titled. But that is actually a really good gig, I think, because it would seem that firms would love to still take on 1L SAs (though maybe I'm wrong and there is just absolutely no work that needs done) as it reflects well upon them, but wouldn't be so hot on paying them some exorbitant amount for their services (or lack thereof). And if you can get your foot in the door and do good work... 'ya know?

[WSULeifJ]

Well a lot of stuff gets exaggerated in a law school class. If he really said that a guy's resume was toilet paper, then yeah, that's a bit harsh. Then again, he might have really been saying what many hiring partners were thinking about the resume. At least now the guy knows he needs to improve the resume... Again though, I wouldn't have said toilet paper...

1. Yes it does. In this case, it wasn't.
2. The Charmin-esque resume, with very minor tweaks, got me a job pretty quickly this summer.

Alright, back to lurking.

-Not Edelstein

[badwithpseudonyms]

Well a lot of stuff gets exaggerated in a law school class. If he really said that a guy's resume was toilet paper, then yeah, that's a bit harsh. Then again, he might have really been saying what many hiring partners were thinking about the resume. At least now the guy knows he needs to improve the resume... Again though, I wouldn't have said toilet paper...

1. Yes it does. In this case, it wasn't.
2. The Charmin-esque resume, with very minor tweaks, got me a job pretty quickly this summer.

Alright, back to lurking.

-Not Edelstein

FTW!