WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[Sprout]

Being a good writer takes a lot of work. With this said, your writing will naturally evolve and improve over the course of law school. Summer jobs will help you a lot and the seminar writing requirement will force you to write a very substantive paper. I also highly recommend taking Advanced Legal Writing if you want to do litigation. There is also a contract drafting class.

I disagree. In second grade I was placed in an advanced literacy program organized by my school district, I had two editorials published in prominent New York newspapers prior to coming to law school, and I received a 3.93 and a 4.12 (cali) in my 1L legal research courses with minimal effort. Writers are born, not made.

So you don't think the advanced literacy program you got to participate in at 7 or 8 helped develop your writing skills?

[legit]

If you thought the submissions for the writing competition were bad, what did you not like? What are your suggestions?

[FuturePaulClement]

If you thought the submissions for the writing competition were bad, what did you not like? What are your suggestions?

Know your audience. That's the key. Only when you've dialed in on their innermost fears and insecurities can the psychological manipulation begin.

[sublime]

If you thought the submissions for the writing competition were bad, what did you not like? What are your suggestions?

Know your audience. That's the key. Only when you've dialed in on their innermost fears and insecurities can the psychological manipulation begin.

Banned. Tired of dealing with your trolling.

[Sprout]

If you thought the submissions for the writing competition were bad, what did you not like? What are your suggestions?

A lot of the submissions I graded started out well and then progressively got really shitty. It was sad because it was clear that students had just ran out of time.

[RareExports]

Is there any reason to bid resume collect firms high? The firms just get everyone's resume anyway, right? Or are there limited "spots?"

[sublime]

Is there any reason to bid resume collect firms high? The firms just get everyone's resume anyway, right? Or are there limited "spots?"

No, do it anyway, but the bid list doesn;t matter very much, but yea, just put all the resume collects at the bottom. All a resume collect is is a centralized mass mail.

[hoos89]

Is there any reason to bid resume collect firms high? The firms just get everyone's resume anyway, right? Or are there limited "spots?"

Firms will not see what you ranked them. Bid order has very close to 0 relevance. The only time it might matter is if CSO ends up with discretion to fill a spot, in which case they might pick someone with a higher bid ranking for that firm. I'm not sure if that ever actually happens though. So yeah not something to worry about. All that said, yeah bid resume collects last.

[RareExports]

How long does it typically take after the bid deadline to hear back about screeners? Bid deadline is June 26.

[ek5dn]

Does it matter what day we choose to send in our applications (if we're applying directly to the firm)? I was going to submit them over the weekend, but I figured that the hiring coordinator will have a lot to deal with on Monday, once he/she's back in the office. Am I over-thinking things? lol

[hoos89]

Does it matter what day we choose to send in our applications (if we're applying directly to the firm)? I was going to submit them over the weekend, but I figured that the hiring coordinator will have a lot to deal with on Monday, once he/she's back in the office. Am I over-thinking things? lol

No I don't think you're overthinking it. I'd actually aim to send them around 11 am in the middle of the week (Tuesday or Wednesday); I think that's a time the recruiting coordinator is likely to not have a big e-mail backlog and be at her desk. And I think you're right that your e-mail is more likely to get lost in the shuffle if you send it over the weekend.

[legit]

^Also, don't forget time differences!

[ek5dn]

Does it matter what day we choose to send in our applications (if we're applying directly to the firm)? I was going to submit them over the weekend, but I figured that the hiring coordinator will have a lot to deal with on Monday, once he/she's back in the office. Am I over-thinking things? lol

No I don't think you're overthinking it. I'd actually aim to send them around 11 am in the middle of the week (Tuesday or Wednesday); I think that's a time the recruiting coordinator is likely to not have a big e-mail backlog and be at her desk. And I think you're right that your e-mail is more likely to get lost in the shuffle if you send it over the weekend.

Will do. I'm just going to have to relax this weekend, I guess. Thanks

[acr]

Is there any reason to bid resume collect firms high? The firms just get everyone's resume anyway, right? Or are there limited "spots?"

Firms will not see what you ranked them. Bid order has very close to 0 relevance. The only time it might matter is if CSO ends up with discretion to fill a spot, in which case they might pick someone with a higher bid ranking for that firm. I'm not sure if that ever actually happens though. So yeah not something to worry about. All that said, yeah bid resume collects last.

Really? Firms don't see what you rank them? For Spring OCI, Shook Hardy told me flat out "any time someone bids #1 on our firm we take notice"

[Sprout]

Does it matter what day we choose to send in our applications (if we're applying directly to the firm)? I was going to submit them over the weekend, but I figured that the hiring coordinator will have a lot to deal with on Monday, once he/she's back in the office. Am I over-thinking things? lol

No I don't think you're overthinking it. I'd actually aim to send them around 11 am in the middle of the week (Tuesday or Wednesday); I think that's a time the recruiting coordinator is likely to not have a big e-mail backlog and be at her desk. And I think you're right that your e-mail is more likely to get lost in the shuffle if you send it over the weekend.

Fwiw, I also had much better results with mass-mailing if I sent my emails out on a Tuesday morning.

[hoos89]

Is there any reason to bid resume collect firms high? The firms just get everyone's resume anyway, right? Or are there limited "spots?"

Firms will not see what you ranked them. Bid order has very close to 0 relevance. The only time it might matter is if CSO ends up with discretion to fill a spot, in which case they might pick someone with a higher bid ranking for that firm. I'm not sure if that ever actually happens though. So yeah not something to worry about. All that said, yeah bid resume collects last.

Really? Firms don't see what you rank them? For Spring OCI, Shook Hardy told me flat out "any time someone bids #1 on our firm we take notice"

That's what I've been told at least. Maybe that's changed but I've never heard of anyone hearing what you ranked them. It's not supposed to matter. Maybe you mentioned it in your cover letter or something?

[ek5dn]

Sorry I have so many questions, but is it better to email the hiring partner or the director of legal recruiting or both?

[Sprout]

Sorry I have so many questions, but is it better to email the hiring partner or the director of legal recruiting or both?

I always emailed the recruiter.

[hoos89]

Sorry I have so many questions, but is it better to email the hiring partner or the director of legal recruiting or both?

Recruiter. Hiring partner is either going to delete/ignore or forward to the recruiter.

[JCougar]

It's bittersweet to see that this thread is back on topic, but since it is: what sorts jobs are Wash U grads getting in the St. Louis area? There's a decent amount of info on how Wash U does with Stl Biglaw, but what about outside of that?

Thanks!

Lots of people in my class are trying to cobble together 2-3 part-time jobs, doing doc review, or trying to start their own firms. A few have insurance defense jobs making $45K/year with 70 hour workweeks. Some managed to snag public defender/state DA jobs in the rural areas. Many have simply given up and gone back to school for something else, or gotten a job outside of law.

Local firms really don't like hiring people unless you grew up and went to high school here, especially kids from WUSTL, because your average WUSTL grad wants to get the hell out of St. Louis as fast as he or she can.

A lot of people are really desperate. I try and not let it get to me too much anymore. For the first two years after graduation, I regularly contemplated suicide due to the hopelessness of my situation, and the lack of help anyone from WUSTL or elsewhere could give me. I spend my first year in Illinois, so I was eligible for Medicaid there, so at least I had healthcare, but when I moved back here, Missouri's one of those states where the legislature refused to expand Medicaid under Obamacare, so if you have no kids, you're not eligible for Medicaid no matter how poor you were. I really needed to see a therapist, but I didn't have access to one. I used to feel personally responsible for my school debt (I grew up with these values--you're responsible for paying back your debts). I used to get really down on myself because I was a failure.

Now, I no longer give any fucks. The joke's on "them" (i.e. the Federal government for allowing the scam of law school to just continue without trying to stop it; and maybe eventually WUSTL when in 10 years people take a look at the accounting of these student loans and they realize that hardly anybody's going to pay this back, and somebody form the DOE starts screaming at them asking WTF they're doing--of course, this goes for most law schools). I just keep on chipping away at my 25-year repayment plan, making $0 payments month after month. Eventually, I'll be 60 years old and free of this burden, but I won't have a house or a family, cause I'll never be able to afford one. But then again, between now and then, Wall Street will probably again scam most of the American public out of the equity in their houses anyway, and shoveling snow and mowing the lawn sucks. It would be nice to have a family, though, eventually. But I doubt that will ever happen anymore.

[Ref]

It's bittersweet to see that this thread is back on topic, but since it is: what sorts jobs are Wash U grads getting in the St. Louis area? There's a decent amount of info on how Wash U does with Stl Biglaw, but what about outside of that?

Thanks!

Lots of people in my class are trying to cobble together 2-3 part-time jobs, doing doc review, or trying to start their own firms. A few have insurance defense jobs making $45K/year with 70 hour workweeks. Some managed to snag public defender/state DA jobs in the rural areas. Many have simply given up and gone back to school for something else, or gotten a job outside of law.

Local firms really don't like hiring people unless you grew up and went to high school here, especially kids from WUSTL, because your average WUSTL grad wants to get the hell out of St. Louis as fast as he or she can.

A lot of people are really desperate. I try and not let it get to me too much anymore. For the first two years after graduation, I regularly contemplated suicide due to the hopelessness of my situation, and the lack of help anyone from WUSTL or elsewhere could give me. I spend my first year in Illinois, so I was eligible for Medicaid there, so at least I had healthcare, but when I moved back here, Missouri's one of those states where the legislature refused to expand Medicaid under Obamacare, so if you have no kids, you're not eligible for Medicaid no matter how poor you were. I really needed to see a therapist, but I didn't have access to one. I used to feel personally responsible for my school debt (I grew up with these values--you're responsible for paying back your debts). I used to get really down on myself because I was a failure.

Now, I no longer give any fucks. The joke's on "them" (i.e. the Federal government for allowing the scam of law school to just continue without trying to stop it; and maybe eventually WUSTL when in 10 years people take a look at the accounting of these student loans and they realize that hardly anybody's going to pay this back, and somebody form the DOE starts screaming at them asking WTF they're doing--of course, this goes for most law schools). I just keep on chipping away at my 25-year repayment plan, making $0 payments month after month. Eventually, I'll be 60 years old and free of this burden, but I won't have a house or a family, cause I'll never be able to afford one. But then again, between now and then, Wall Street will probably again scam most of the American public out of the equity in their houses anyway, and shoveling snow and mowing the lawn sucks. It would be nice to have a family, though, eventually. But I doubt that will ever happen anymore.

While a valuable reminder to people contemplating law school at all (let alone just WUSTL) to be smart before taking out significant debt, I feel compelled to note for any potential lurkers looking at WUSTL that this is very far from what is the norm for even the bottom of the class. Nothing against you, JCougar, because I think you graduated closer to the Great Recession, but I'm not aware of very many, if any, people from the last few years' graduating classes in this sort of situation. Even people towards the bottom of the class have found meaningful work, though perhaps less 'prestigious' or high-paying.

[townizm]

How many IP dudes are there in a class?

[RareExports]

How many IP dudes are there in a class?

For my class (2018), I guess between 5-15%, but probably closer to the bottom of that.

[robert88]

Very few, especially the engineers. Engineers can already make 100K or above without going through law school, why bother?

How many IP dudes are there in a class?

For my class (2018), I guess between 5-15%, but probably closer to the bottom of that.

[ek5dn]

just to make sure - for OCI bidding, there's no way to also send a CL, right? symplicity just forwards your resume + transcript?