Boalt 1Ls taking questions Forum

[boaltbear]

Thanks for sharing! This makes me feel SOOOOO MUUUUUUCH BETTER! I would much rather rely on interviews/soft factors for job acceptances than on law school grades, which seem to be somewhat arbitrary. I also love the fact that Boalt refuses to rank students unless they are applying to clerkships. I hate the idea of "competing" for grades. Just curious, what work experience did you have? Also, how many hours/week on average (outside of finals) do you study/do you feel your peers study?
Thanks again for taking questions:-)

I am going to message you to tell you about my specific work experience.

Everyone is generally laid back about studying. There really aren't any gunners here or if people are gunning they are really good about hiding it. I studied about 15-20 hours per week during the semester and probably kicked that up to about 30 hours per week during finals. I definitely had friends that studied less. Because you can do journals and clinics as a 1L starting your first semester, most people have other commitments outside of studying.

The collegial and non-competitive atmosphere is definitely the main reason I chose Boalt. I visited a couple of other schools in the T14 and the feedback I got from students was way different than Boalt. It is funny because that is really hard information to get out of people but it seemed like it eventually came out if you hung out with the students long enough.

[Kronk]

I don't think the "employers don't care" thing is true at all. Sorry to make you feel worse, Geneva, but I know a lot of my friends who struck out at OCI despite being involved in good extracurriculars, having OK grades (2-3 Hs), and charismatic personalities. I think there is a whole lot more that goes into it. I did well my first year and only got 2 offers (ironically from the best firms) and struck out in California completely. Also a lot of 1L SA positions go to people with lower grades because 2Ls or 1Ls renege on their offers and the firms scramble to find replacements (albeit those replacements are easy to find because a lot of people want those jobs), not because employers necessarily don't care about grades. I had an HH, 3 Ps, and 3 Hs after my first year and during an interview with a GDC office from my hometown I was screened out due to grades, so take that as you will.

You should think very hard about taking Boalt over Stanford. You'll close no doors going to Boalt, but you'll have to work far harder to get the same kind of recognition that you would at Stanford. If any BigLaw firm will do, go with your fit. If you're committed to public interest and government work I would go with the fit as well. If you have any inkling you might want to do something more prestigious I'd take awhile and decide what's important. I am probably biased because I really dislike the city of Berkeley (filthy even though it's small, stores have nothing and are tiny, only 2 bars I really enjoy, etc.) but I would take Stanford in a heartbeat. Law school is pretty incestual so the chances are you'll be hanging out with mostly law students, and you should decide if the extras of Berkeley (closer to SF, actually a city so there are bars and etc., culture of the town) is worth it when you'll probably be with law kids no matter what and pretty busy no matter what.

I definitely respect the choice of Boalt if someone decides that's best for them, though.

[worldtraveler]

How important is it to visit during ASW as opposed to some other weekend? How do employers outside of CA look at the grading system? Is having straight Ps truly equivalent to being a median student at a peer school?

Hey Geneva,

I am a 1L at Boalt and I had all P's first semester but was still able to land a Biglaw 1L SA. That might not be typical but the truth is that with the HH/H/P grading system employers seemed to care a little less about grades and much more about my extra curriculars and work experience.

The firms I interviewed with outside CA were still familiar with our grading system but gave more leeway because of the indefiniteness of the rank. However, I ultimately decided to summer in a California firm.

For me, ASW was fun but it wasn't the deciding event that led me to choose Boalt. I would recommend going but if you can't make it don't sweat it.

I am happy to answer anymore questions you may have.

-Boalt Bear

Thanks for sharing! This makes me feel SOOOOO MUUUUUUCH BETTER! I would much rather rely on interviews/soft factors for job acceptances than on law school grades, which seem to be somewhat arbitrary. I also love the fact that Boalt refuses to rank students unless they are applying to clerkships. I hate the idea of "competing" for grades. Just curious, what work experience did you have? Also, how many hours/week on average (outside of finals) do you study/do you feel your peers study?
Thanks again for taking questions:-)

What things are you interested in and what kinds of jobs? I feel like Boalt over Stanford could work for some people but it really depends on the person.

[EMZE]

I am probably biased because I really dislike the city of Berkeley (filthy even though it's small, stores have nothing and are tiny, only 2 bars I really enjoy, etc.)

Can you talk some more about your dislike of Berkeley? Where are you originally from? What cities do you like?

I grew up in NYC but really don't like it there much at all. Moved around a bunch in the Army and know that I hate living in the midwest and South. Currently living in CO and I love it out here because of how much outdoorsy stuff there is to do.

[Kronk]

I am probably biased because I really dislike the city of Berkeley (filthy even though it's small, stores have nothing and are tiny, only 2 bars I really enjoy, etc.)

Can you talk some more about your dislike of Berkeley? Where are you originally from? What cities do you like?

I grew up in NYC but really don't like it there much at all. Moved around a bunch in the Army and know that I hate living in the midwest and South. Currently living in CO and I love it out here because of how much outdoorsy stuff there is to do.

Yeah, I am from Colorado as well. Berkeley has climbing gyms and there is obviously outdoorsy stuff to do in the general area, but it's just a big drive (5 hrs Yosemite, 5 hrs Tahoe, etc.). I love to mountain bike and climb and run and I just wasn't really happy with how cramped and small the space was outside for doing anything like that. I also didn't have a car--sure I could have found some more trails that way, but it'd still be a bit of an endeavor. Not to mention the stuff doesn't compare to CO anyway. I was mostly relegated to the climbing gyms in Oakland. I'm sure I'm spoiled from CO but it just wasn't even close there.

I think I would've preferred a big city actually, because then you have the benefits of a big city (clubs, tons of bars, more restaurants, more culture, etc.). Unless you live in the city, Berkeley is kind of the worst of both worlds--too cramped and concrete to be very outdoorsy (there are about 1-2 decent places to run and a couple parks) and too small to give you city-life flair. That was my impression, anyway.

Also the stores are as ghetto as they come, from the Safeway to the Ace Hardware.

[EMZE]

I am probably biased because I really dislike the city of Berkeley (filthy even though it's small, stores have nothing and are tiny, only 2 bars I really enjoy, etc.)

Can you talk some more about your dislike of Berkeley? Where are you originally from? What cities do you like?

I grew up in NYC but really don't like it there much at all. Moved around a bunch in the Army and know that I hate living in the midwest and South. Currently living in CO and I love it out here because of how much outdoorsy stuff there is to do.

Yeah, I am from Colorado as well. Berkeley has climbing gyms and there is obviously outdoorsy stuff to do in the general area, but it's just a big drive (5 hrs Yosemite, 5 hrs Tahoe, etc.). I love to mountain bike and climb and run and I just wasn't really happy with how cramped and small the space was outside for doing anything like that. I also didn't have a car--sure I could have found some more trails that way, but it'd still be a bit of an endeavor. Not to mention the stuff doesn't compare to CO anyway. I was mostly relegated to the climbing gyms in Oakland. I'm sure I'm spoiled from CO but it just wasn't even close there.

I think I would've preferred a big city actually, because then you have the benefits of a big city (clubs, tons of bars, more restaurants, more culture, etc.). Unless you live in the city, Berkeley is kind of the worst of both worlds--too cramped and concrete to be very outdoorsy (there are about 1-2 decent places to run and a couple parks) and too small to give you city-life flair. That was my impression, anyway.

Also the stores are as ghetto as they come, from the Safeway to the Ace Hardware.

Hm. Well that's disappointing. I have a car, so I hope that helps. I am big on cycling, and love being able to step outside my door and hit the hills. Do you have any recommendations for where to live that might be a middle ground between access to the outdoors and commute to school? My wife lived in walnut creek for a year, but I think that's probably too far.

[Kronk]

Hm. Well that's disappointing. I have a car, so I hope that helps. I am big on cycling, and love being able to step outside my door and hit the hills. Do you have any recommendations for where to live that might be a middle ground between access to the outdoors and commute to school? My wife lived in walnut creek for a year, but I think that's probably too far.

I think cycling on the roads is probably a lot more doable. I know that a lot of people in the city cycle and I went on a few rides out across the bridge and etc. I was into cycling in UG but didn't try to join the team at Cal because of how time consuming road cycling is. But they have an awesome club team so I would maybe contact them and ask their routes. Obviously they train somewhere. Also, some people seem to be okay with the running / mountain biking trails, too, so it just depends on if it's up to your standards. There is really only one substantial trail (called the fire trail) and some people run at Tilden Park. So you could check those out. The mountain biking in the immediate area is actually illegal and pretty substandard in my opinion, not sure if that is something you're into.

The car will probably help you a lot. I just found that with the busy nature of law school it would be difficult to drive somewhere for an hour, ride somewhere for 2 hours, and drive back all in a day. As for an in between place, I don't know that Walnut Creek would be such a bad bet. It's probably 20-30 minutes to the law school from there in a car each day and I would definitely be more comfortable riding the streets around Walnut Creek and Lafayette than Oakland and Berkeley, but like I said the Cal team has to ride somewhere so I'm sure there are alternatives if you don't mind more urban riding. When I rode I was partial to getting totally out of a cityscape and I don't know where that'd be possible, but if anywhere, it's definitely east! Hope it helps.

[Dignan]

Hm. Well that's disappointing. I have a car, so I hope that helps. I am big on cycling, and love being able to step outside my door and hit the hills. Do you have any recommendations for where to live that might be a middle ground between access to the outdoors and commute to school? My wife lived in walnut creek for a year, but I think that's probably too far.

If you have a car, the running options around Berkeley are fantastic—much better than those of any other T14 school. Tilden Park and Wildcat Canyon Park are in the Berkeley hills, about two miles northeast of the campus. I'm a runner who has spent some time in Boulder, Colorado, and I think the trails in the Berkeley Hills are better for running than the trails above Boulder. The trails out here have better surfaces, are less crowded, and offer amazing views.

I also don't entirely agree with Kronk that the Berkeley stores are "as ghetto as they come." That might be true for stores like Safeway, but the independent grocery store options are excellent. Berkeley Bowl and Monterey Market, for example, have the best (and cheapest) produce I've ever found in an urban area. When I lived in SF, I spent two to three times as much on groceries.

[bilbobaggins]

North Oakland is a happy medium between a big city and the shittiness that is Berkeley. Berkeley is overpriced and there's more going on in Oakland and it's closer to SF.

Don't know what Kronk is talking about in terms of "ghetto" stores. Not exactly sure what that means, but the Berkeley/North Oakland area is home to two Berkeley Bowls, a Whole Foods, several Trader Joes and multiple safeways along with smaller grocery stores. People love TJ's and Berkeley Bowl and the other stores aren't bad.

There are some great hills to ride right behind the law school and I have known several law students who have kept up some hardcore cycling. One guy I knew was running ultra-marathons during school. If you really love to do it the Bay Area offers the opportunities.

Walnut Creek would be a 30 - 40 minute commute depending on the time of day. You'd be commuting with rush hour traffic through the tunnel on 24. Gas is also fucking crazy expensive and it's a relatively high mileage commute. It is relatively cheap out there, but it's not as close as Berkeley to some of the better outdoorsy stuff the Bay offers.

Also: Suburban riding (Lafayette/WC) is usually worse than urban riding because traffic is slower and cars in Oakland/Berk are more used to bikes/there are more bike lanes, etc.

[Rotor]

I agree with Dignan that Kronk's analysis is on the pessimistic side (but I can understand how some people don't like Berk-town). This is just my two cents to show there are different opinions.

As for the grocery options, the Safeway was fine--nothing fancy, but far from ghetto. Even leaving that aside, it just closed for 6 months to go through a major renovation. BB and MM (mentioned above) are great--I live blocks from MM and do the majority of my shopping there and at Trader Joe's. Monterey Fish Market is also a fabulous local place that only offers sustainable options. Similarly the new butcher on Cedar has great local meat (and butchery classes!). Even if you don't want those, you have Whole Foods and Andronico's (aka "Astronomico's" for their prices) available-- if not realistic on a student budget.

As for the Ace, it is quirky. But I would take them every day and twice on Sunday over a big box Lowe's or Home Depot.

Finally, I'm not a biking/running fiend, but I live on a bicycle boulevard (that criss-cross the city) making my bike commute much more pleasant than fighting cars on a busy street. I also like the trails in Tilden and other East Bay parks to walk my dog--but admittedly my car is essential to enjoying them.

(note: some repeat in the intervening post, but I don't have time to edit)

[boaltbear]

I think Kronk brought up some really good points in his post. I want to add my experiences to some of his view points.

First of all, in regard to how I got my job, it wasn't as easy as I may have made it seem. I did a lot of research on TLS prior to coming to law school and I actually sent out a ton of applications on December 1st to all the major firms in a couple different cities I was interested in. I went on several call backs and received a couple really awesome offers. Every firm that offered me a call back saw my grades. I actually chose to summer at a firm that has a dedicated 1L program. So despite what Kronk said, there are several large firms that have SA positions specifically dedicated for 1Ls (not just leftover reneged 2L spots). Don't listen to CDO or other people that tell you 1L SA positions only exist for minorities or IP focus students. 1L SA positions are out there for those who are willing to hustle.

Second of all, I don't care about prestige at all. I don't care about the ranking of firms or schools or anything else. Boalt might not be the place for you if you do care. Stanford is definitely ranked higher and would give you better access to more prestigious opportunities. In my last career I spent a lot of time chasing prestige and I can't really say that it truly ever made me happy. Honestly, I had a choice between a couple great firms to work at this summer and the one I chose, while still V100, is the lowest ranked. I chose them because I really like the practice areas they specialize in and the people I met there were awesome. I did a lot of research about them ahead of time and I think my enthusiasm about their firm is one of the major reasons I was offered a job there. My thinking is that I should be excited and interested in the firm that I am going to dedicate so much of my time to. But if rankings and prestige are what motivates you then I would go to the highest ranked school possible and gun as hard as I possibly could.

Third, the town of Berkeley is definitely like no other place I have ever been. Some people absolutely love it and some hate it. I was in the later camp until recently. It has somehow grown on me. I can't say specifically what is appealing to me lately but I am really coming around to the local scene. You should keep in mind that going to law school is like joining a cult. While you will still be living in Berkeley, you will be dwelling in Boalt. It is its own community. I love the people here and I would literally not trade any of them for anyone else.

Okay so this turned out to be me just rambling. I hope some of this helps those thinking about attending. Feel free to PM me.

-BoaltBear

[Kronk]

Yeah, as they all have pointed out, it will work for some people and not for others. I will say that they're definitely right that Berkeley Bowl and Trader Joe's are good stores. So is the local store, Andronico's. I still found it difficult to find certain things (I cook a lot) at stores, and sometimes organic runs pricier. As for trails / roads, like I said before the cycling team has to ride somewhere, so I'd look into that. I personally don't think the running trails remotely compare to Colorado, or even most other places in California (I think you might have a more varied time finding good places in L.A.). While Berkeley has two nice trails, Boulder / SoCal / similar places have about 30 apiece that are varied and singletrack and take you through canyons and to the tops of small mountains and to incredible rock formations and that stuff is that I enjoy the most. Once again to each his own, and depends on what you like / need to do.

Edit: I guess the point of all this was to point out that when I made my choice, a big consideration was that I thought that there would be better places to run, bike, climb, etc. than Berkeley than other top ten schools and I kind of found that wasn't the case. I still really loved the school itself, so this isn't an indictment, and it's obviously not at all a deciding factor in a law school. But I do think it'd be a nicer run or bike in Ann Arbor, Palo Alto, Charlottesville, etc. Just wanted to point out I wasn't shitting on Berk-town, just pointing out that some of the advantages that it seemed to have on the outside for me didn't end up being advantages.

[el ginseng]

I've looked around for info on this, but I haven't found anything useful, maybe someone here can help me:

I know Berkeley students can ride "AC Transit" for free, but what does this include? Local buses only? Buses and BART? My wife and I are trying to decide where we might live, but with only one car, I'd need to be able to reach campus on my own, so whatever the limit on the bus pass is will probably be the limit on how far away we can live.

Thanks in advance!

[Rotor]

I've looked around for info on this, but I haven't found anything useful, maybe someone here can help me:

I know Berkeley students can ride "AC Transit" for free, but what does this include? Local buses only? Buses and BART? My wife and I are trying to decide where we might live, but with only one car, I'd need to be able to reach campus on my own, so whatever the limit on the bus pass is will probably be the limit on how far away we can live.

Thanks in advance!

It applies to all AC Transit bus lines, local or transbay.
It does NOT apply to BART, SFMuni, etc.

You can find the routes here: http://actransit.org

[EMZE]

Thanks everyone for chiming in with their experiences regarding my question. I really appreciate it. If you see a guy asking the same questions at ASW you'll know its me.

[critterkln]

Yeah, I am from Colorado as well. Berkeley has climbing gyms and there is obviously outdoorsy stuff to do in the general area, but it's just a big drive (5 hrs Yosemite, 5 hrs Tahoe, etc.). I love to mountain bike and climb and run and I just wasn't really happy with how cramped and small the space was outside for doing anything like that. I also didn't have a car--sure I could have found some more trails that way, but it'd still be a bit of an endeavor. Not to mention the stuff doesn't compare to CO anyway. I was mostly relegated to the climbing gyms in Oakland. I'm sure I'm spoiled from CO but it just wasn't even close there.

I think I would've preferred a big city actually, because then you have the benefits of a big city (clubs, tons of bars, more restaurants, more culture, etc.). Unless you live in the city, Berkeley is kind of the worst of both worlds--too cramped and concrete to be very outdoorsy (there are about 1-2 decent places to run and a couple parks) and too small to give you city-life flair. That was my impression, anyway.

Also the stores are as ghetto as they come, from the Safeway to the Ace Hardware.

Um no. Idk how you drive, but Tahoe, which is one of the most gorgeous places ever is only about 3 hours away if you don't leave at retarded (read congested) times. Maybe 3 1/2 if you drive slow. And there are plenty of nice parks and outdoor areas around the Bay Area.

Also, if you have a car, both Oakland and SF are like right there if you really need some city time.

[EMZE]

Yeah, I am from Colorado as well. Berkeley has climbing gyms and there is obviously outdoorsy stuff to do in the general area, but it's just a big drive (5 hrs Yosemite, 5 hrs Tahoe, etc.). I love to mountain bike and climb and run and I just wasn't really happy with how cramped and small the space was outside for doing anything like that. I also didn't have a car--sure I could have found some more trails that way, but it'd still be a bit of an endeavor. Not to mention the stuff doesn't compare to CO anyway. I was mostly relegated to the climbing gyms in Oakland. I'm sure I'm spoiled from CO but it just wasn't even close there.

I think I would've preferred a big city actually, because then you have the benefits of a big city (clubs, tons of bars, more restaurants, more culture, etc.). Unless you live in the city, Berkeley is kind of the worst of both worlds--too cramped and concrete to be very outdoorsy (there are about 1-2 decent places to run and a couple parks) and too small to give you city-life flair. That was my impression, anyway.

Also the stores are as ghetto as they come, from the Safeway to the Ace Hardware.

Um no. Idk how you drive, but Tahoe, which is one of the most gorgeous places ever is only about 3 hours away if you don't leave at retarded (read congested) times. Maybe 3 1/2 if you drive slow. And there are plenty of nice parks and outdoor areas around the Bay Area.

Also, if you have a car, both Oakland and SF are like right there if you really need some city time.

If one were to use a car, is parking ridic? Trying to figure out how best to travel. I would prefer not to drive, but like the idea of being able to do so.

[Kronk]

Yeah you're right, Yosemite and Tahoe are probably closer to 3-4. Either way, I don't think it changes the fact that they are pretty dang far away and you have to make a weekend trip out of it to make it worthwhile. Coming from a lot of places, that would probably be normal or even nice, for people from Montana, Utah, Colorado, etc. you can get to places as gorgeous and more gorgeous than Tahoe in an hour or forty-five minutes (and they won't have a Harrah's, which is a plus), which makes a huge difference in my opinion. Back home you can call it an early night on Friday, wake up at 3a.m., be on the the trailhead of a 13,000ft. or 14,000ft. mountain within an hour, summit at 9-10a.m. before the weather gets bad, and be back at the trailhead by 1pm and showered by 3pm. As for mountain biking, in a place like Utah, Sedona, or Colorado you can throw your bike in your truck, be somewhere amazing in 15 minutes, and be home within 2-3 hours of leaving. To get the same experience in Berkeley will take twice as long, which basically elimiantes all weekdays from consideration your first year when you can't choose your own schedule.

Considering the guy is from Colorado, I was just pointing out some of the stuff that I really missed in Berkeley and giving my opinion that you can definitely be in areas that are nearly as pretty as the Rockies and offer some of the same opportunities, but it's much more of a hassle and you have to set aside full weekends instead of just days. You're definitely not going to be doing cycling training going over multiple mountain passes on the weekends from Berkeley like you can from Boulder or summitting a 14er and back again in one day. Most people don't care, but if you want to be in the mountains every weekened and that's where most of your hobbies are, it's a big consideration. I know that a bunch of 3Ls and 2Ls this year rented a house in Tahoe for the winter so they could basically ski every week and commute to class, haha, so that is always an option I suppose, but that's a financial commitment.

As for the cities being close, that's definitely the case and I spent many weekends in SF and went to a lot of Warriors games in Oakland and etc. and it was great, but it's the same sort of thing. It's a different thing having it in your backyard like if you lived in SF than having to drive and park and etc. With the BART closing so early I was lucky I had a friend in SF to crash on her bed when we went out, otherwise you're either paying $50 for a cab or not drinking that night (and my friend got his car broken into while at a club in SF, so there's that as well to parking on the street). Which usually involves planning a weekend night extravaganza whereas if you just live in the city you can just step outside your front door having decided to go out a few mintues ago.

Once again none of these are probably in most people's consideration of where to go to law school, but it was enough to make me lukewarm on the school as a whole despite loving my professors, classmates, and the school in general. When I chose Berkeley I was thinking "great in between of city-life with some outdoorsy stuff and the ability to catch a mountain or go skiing occasionally." It turned out to be exactly that...with enough hassle to make it not generally worthwhile, especially if you don't have a car but even if you do to a large extent.

[Kronk]

If one were to use a car, is parking ridic? Trying to figure out how best to travel. I would prefer not to drive, but like the idea of being able to do so.

Parking is easy and convenient if you're willing to pay for a parking pass (from my understanding, they never check if you renew the pass so once you buy one you can just park in the garage for all three of your years). It's a big garage about 2 blocks from campus. You need to get there kind of early though, it can fill up. There is street parking too that you can often find.

[nyankitty]

Hey guys! Sorry if this diverges from the current topic a bit as it is less a question about general Berkeley attendance and more a question specifically about ASW. (Though I'm sure I'll be back with a lot more student specific-questions after ASW!) I'm coming to ASW from the east coast, and am unfamiliar with the area. It'd be great to hear from some current students and/or bay area locals on what some good ways to spend my Saturday and Sunday are, after the official friday activities are over with.

[commerceclause]

Any 1Ls live in Ida Jackson or Manville housing? Housing is kind of important to me, in that I want to live near campus and the gym. Just a personal thing. Would be curious to know a bit about the two main housing options that are really close to campus - feel free to be as general or specific as you'd like. Overall, are you happy with that housing and would you be able to/want to live there as a 2L or 3L?

Thanks.

[Tanicius]

Any 1Ls live in Ida Jackson or Manville housing? Housing is kind of important to me, in that I want to live near campus and the gym. Just a personal thing. Would be curious to know a bit about the two main housing options that are really close to campus - feel free to be as general or specific as you'd like. Overall, are you happy with that housing and would you be able to/want to live there as a 2L or 3L?

Thanks.

If you want proximity over all else, do I-House. You're literally next door to the law school.

[EMZE]

So, now that I've officially visited and seen the school, I've had one burning question. In trying to figure out where to live, with the considerations of a young family in mind, I was a little worried about all the homeless near to Berkeley. Has this ever been a problem for break-ins and all?

[bilbobaggins]

So, now that I've officially visited and seen the school, I've had one burning question. In trying to figure out where to live, with the considerations of a young family in mind, I was a little worried about all the homeless near to Berkeley. Has this ever been a problem for break-ins and all?

Homeless individuals are generally less likely to commit crimes (and more likely to be the victim of crimes) than the average person.

But, what I think you're asking is - How safe is the Berkeley area?

It is very safe. There are some property crimes, but in general it is a low crime area. Most people wouldn't leave their doors unlocked, but I know some that have on a regular basis without any issues. The most common way to get your shit stolen is to leave it in a car in plain view parked on the street over night.

[EvelynS]

Housing question is also my number one. I did not quite like Ida housing because of all the frat houses around. I am pretty sure it would not be that loud and Ida is soooo close to the school, but I am still not sure if that is a good option. Manville, on the other hand, is like a 25-30 min walk from school, pretty isolated area. Any opinions on Manville? Also, i did not notice any bus stop close to Manville. How close is the nearest bus stop from that building?