So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate? Forum

[Johann]

I mean, management position in what? If it's for like Arcelor Mittal or some energy conglomerate, you might want to think about the impact on the local population and whether you can live with yourself being involved in sketchy/extortive activity in west africa. I worked on some mining projects in the region before law school and eventually I asked to transfer because it can be a harrowing experience, both morally and physically. So yea, obviously work experience is better than going to law school and that sounds like a great salary, just remember there are other considerations here too.

LOL thank God you talked him out of that. Now he can go into Biglaw, where instead he'll spend the day helping billion-dollar corporations exploit loopholes to skirt the obvious intent of tax and regulatory laws, and never have to worry about that "sketchy/extortive activity" again.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

I mean, management position in what? If it's for like Arcelor Mittal or some energy conglomerate, you might want to think about the impact on the local population and whether you can live with yourself being involved in sketchy/extortive activity in west africa. I worked on some mining projects in the region before law school and eventually I asked to transfer because it can be a harrowing experience, both morally and physically. So yea, obviously work experience is better than going to law school and that sounds like a great salary, just remember there are other considerations here too.

LOL thank God you talked him out of that. Now he can go into Biglaw, where instead he'll spend the day helping billion-dollar corporations exploit loopholes to skirt the obvious intent of tax and regulatory laws, and never have to worry about that "sketchy/extortive activity" again.

Yeah because everyone knows the government's feel good tax and regulatory laws are always in the best interest of society and simply are there to help defend the country and provide public goods!

Cheers to the great people in government! I even provided a perfect example of the good people in government raising the lay people's wages to the living wages that they are entitled to!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201 ... /82348622/

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I mean, management position in what? If it's for like Arcelor Mittal or some energy conglomerate, you might want to think about the impact on the local population and whether you can live with yourself being involved in sketchy/extortive activity in west africa. I worked on some mining projects in the region before law school and eventually I asked to transfer because it can be a harrowing experience, both morally and physically. So yea, obviously work experience is better than going to law school and that sounds like a great salary, just remember there are other considerations here too.

LOL thank God you talked him out of that. Now he can go into Biglaw, where instead he'll spend the day helping billion-dollar corporations exploit loopholes to skirt the obvious intent of tax and regulatory laws, and never have to worry about that "sketchy/extortive activity" again.

Yeah because everyone knows the government's feel good tax and regulatory laws are always in the best interest of society and simply are there to help defend the country and provide public goods!

Cheers to the great people in government! I even provided a perfect example of the good people in government raising the lay people's wages to the living wages that they are entitled to!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201 ... /82348622/

I'm pretty darn libertarian. I've said repeatedly that jobs like mine shouldn't be necessary. But it doesn't have dick to do with my politics. Because regardless of whether I thought corporate taxes should be lower, I think it's pretty hard to argue that having billion-dollar corporations use gigantic law firms to get them special privileges (which individuals and small businesses can't afford to put together), like carried interest or hopscotch loans from foreign parents, which are clearly not contemplated by the tax code, is an ethically sound thing to do.

Not that I won't be asking how high when the senior associates and partners say jump.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

I mean, management position in what? If it's for like Arcelor Mittal or some energy conglomerate, you might want to think about the impact on the local population and whether you can live with yourself being involved in sketchy/extortive activity in west africa. I worked on some mining projects in the region before law school and eventually I asked to transfer because it can be a harrowing experience, both morally and physically. So yea, obviously work experience is better than going to law school and that sounds like a great salary, just remember there are other considerations here too.

LOL thank God you talked him out of that. Now he can go into Biglaw, where instead he'll spend the day helping billion-dollar corporations exploit loopholes to skirt the obvious intent of tax and regulatory laws, and never have to worry about that "sketchy/extortive activity" again.

Yeah because everyone knows the government's feel good tax and regulatory laws are always in the best interest of society and simply are there to help defend the country and provide public goods!

Cheers to the great people in government! I even provided a perfect example of the good people in government raising the lay people's wages to the living wages that they are entitled to!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/201 ... /82348622/

I'm pretty darn libertarian. I've said repeatedly that jobs like mine shouldn't be necessary. But it doesn't have dick to do with my politics. Because regardless of whether I thought corporate taxes should be lower, I think it's pretty hard to argue that having billion-dollar corporations use gigantic law firms to get them special privileges (which individuals and small businesses can't afford to put together), like carried interest or hopscotch loans from foreign parents, which are clearly not contemplated by the tax code, is an ethically sound thing to do.

Not that I won't be asking how high when the senior associates and partners say jump.

Oh I agree and so does anyone else who is intellectually honest. However, t's the government's responsibility to include or exclude EVERYTHING in the tax code explicitly as written. You play the game based on the rules. Whether or not the rules make sense doesn't matter to anyone except the people writing the rules.

As far as I am concerned, playing the game by the rules is about as ethical as it gets.

[nothingtosee]

Sad

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Oh I agree and so does anyone else who is intellectually honest. However, t's the government's responsibility to include or exclude EVERYTHING in the tax code explicitly as written. You play the game based on the rules. Whether or not the rules make sense doesn't matter to anyone except the people writing the rules.

As far as I am concerned, playing the game by the rules is about as ethical as it gets.

Your lack of concern about removing agency from action portends well for your future as a Biglaw partner, or possibly a war profiteer. Go ahead and sell those punchcards to whoever's buying, IBM, it's not like it's illegal or anything!

But thank you for being the face of the "legal is the same thing as ethical" campaign; when normal people with regular moral compasses consider law school, it's nice to have something to point to when I say "these will be your colleagues for the rest of your career."

[asdfdfdfadfas]

Oh I agree and so does anyone else who is intellectually honest. However, t's the government's responsibility to include or exclude EVERYTHING in the tax code explicitly as written. You play the game based on the rules. Whether or not the rules make sense doesn't matter to anyone except the people writing the rules.

As far as I am concerned, playing the game by the rules is about as ethical as it gets.

Your lack of concern about removing agency from action portends well for your future as a Biglaw partner, or possibly a war profiteer. Go ahead and sell those punchcards to whoever's buying, IBM, it's not like it's illegal or anything!

But thank you for being the face of the "legal is the same thing as ethical" campaign; when normal people with regular moral compasses consider law school, it's nice to have something to point to when I say "these will be your colleagues for the rest of your career."

That was an interesting twist to my interpretation of paying taxes based on what the tax code says....... We went from talking about paying taxes based on what is written in the tax code to war profiteering and applying what I said as a blanket statement to everything legal.

So sorry I have disdain for paying more taxes than necessary just like every other individual in the world, because we all know how ethical and morally righteous the government is and has been historically.

Shall we get into specific elucidations of the government's morally and righteous behavior?

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The problem with leaving BigLaw, in my opinion, is that for some people, giving up the money will be hard because it's very easy to get used to a certain lifestyle. This becomes increasingly worse if you have a family because why would you want to be the reason why your kids went from good grades in private school to getting beat up in public school? The associates I've seen living BigLaw were all single. The ones I know who have a family are still grinding. This is all anecdotal, of course.

Yes...giving up my big, spacious 800 square foot apartment if I quit biglaw...THAT SUPER LUX LIFESTYLE

I think people who have kids should just NOT LIVE IN NYC or any big city. It's child abuse, especially if you aren't rich like the Donald.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

The problem with leaving BigLaw, in my opinion, is that for some people, giving up the money will be hard because it's very easy to get used to a certain lifestyle. This becomes increasingly worse if you have a family because why would you want to be the reason why your kids went from good grades in private school to getting beat up in public school? The associates I've seen living BigLaw were all single. The ones I know who have a family are still grinding. This is all anecdotal, of course.

Yes...giving up my big, spacious 800 square foot apartment if I quit biglaw...THAT SUPER LUX LIFESTYLE

I think people who have kids should just NOT LIVE IN NYC or any big city. It's child abuse, especially if you aren't rich like the Donald.

Well, come move to Lincoln Nebraska and pay $450 for rent and work doing any job while you play the progressive credentialism game in your spare time like I am.

https://www.timberlinelincoln.com/floorplan/linden

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The problem with leaving BigLaw, in my opinion, is that for some people, giving up the money will be hard because it's very easy to get used to a certain lifestyle. This becomes increasingly worse if you have a family because why would you want to be the reason why your kids went from good grades in private school to getting beat up in public school? The associates I've seen living BigLaw were all single. The ones I know who have a family are still grinding. This is all anecdotal, of course.

Yes...giving up my big, spacious 800 square foot apartment if I quit biglaw...THAT SUPER LUX LIFESTYLE

I think people who have kids should just NOT LIVE IN NYC or any big city. It's child abuse, especially if you aren't rich like the Donald.

Well, come move to Lincoln Nebraska and pay $450 for rent and work doing any job while you play the progressive credentialism game in your spare time like I am.

https://www.timberlinelincoln.com/floorplan/linden

Maybe I should do that. I could go work a fun job as a vet tech making 30k a year with a much higher QOL....or go work as a zookeeper or something.

[asdfdfdfadfas]

The problem with leaving BigLaw, in my opinion, is that for some people, giving up the money will be hard because it's very easy to get used to a certain lifestyle. This becomes increasingly worse if you have a family because why would you want to be the reason why your kids went from good grades in private school to getting beat up in public school? The associates I've seen living BigLaw were all single. The ones I know who have a family are still grinding. This is all anecdotal, of course.

Yes...giving up my big, spacious 800 square foot apartment if I quit biglaw...THAT SUPER LUX LIFESTYLE

I think people who have kids should just NOT LIVE IN NYC or any big city. It's child abuse, especially if you aren't rich like the Donald.

Well, come move to Lincoln Nebraska and pay $450 for rent and work doing any job while you play the progressive credentialism game in your spare time like I am.

https://www.timberlinelincoln.com/floorplan/linden

Maybe I should do that. I could go work a fun job as a vet tech making 30k a year with a much higher QOL....or go work as a zookeeper or something.

Yeah, pretty much. 30k a month you will probably spend one pay check on expenses and you'd save probably 800 or 900 bucks a month. Also, if you do consider it The Omaha Zoo is ranked in the top 5. If that is really what you are looking to do.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The problem with leaving BigLaw, in my opinion, is that for some people, giving up the money will be hard because it's very easy to get used to a certain lifestyle. This becomes increasingly worse if you have a family because why would you want to be the reason why your kids went from good grades in private school to getting beat up in public school? The associates I've seen living BigLaw were all single. The ones I know who have a family are still grinding. This is all anecdotal, of course.

Yes...giving up my big, spacious 800 square foot apartment if I quit biglaw...THAT SUPER LUX LIFESTYLE

I think people who have kids should just NOT LIVE IN NYC or any big city. It's child abuse, especially if you aren't rich like the Donald.

Well, come move to Lincoln Nebraska and pay $450 for rent and work doing any job while you play the progressive credentialism game in your spare time like I am.

https://www.timberlinelincoln.com/floorplan/linden

Maybe I should do that. I could go work a fun job as a vet tech making 30k a year with a much higher QOL....or go work as a zookeeper or something.

Yeah, pretty much. 30k a month you will probably spend one pay check on expenses and you'd save probably 800 or 900 bucks a month. Also, if you do consider it The Omaha Zoo is ranked in the top 5. If that is really what you are looking to do.

Not bad. Seems a lot more fun than being a lawyer anyway....I have thought about going back to school to become a vet, but that's too much schooling at this point. So I would consider doing vet tech/zookeeper instead.

[zot1]

The problem with leaving BigLaw, in my opinion, is that for some people, giving up the money will be hard because it's very easy to get used to a certain lifestyle. This becomes increasingly worse if you have a family because why would you want to be the reason why your kids went from good grades in private school to getting beat up in public school? The associates I've seen living BigLaw were all single. The ones I know who have a family are still grinding. This is all anecdotal, of course.

Yes...giving up my big, spacious 800 square foot apartment if I quit biglaw...THAT SUPER LUX LIFESTYLE

I think people who have kids should just NOT LIVE IN NYC or any big city. It's child abuse, especially if you aren't rich like the Donald.

Well, come move to Lincoln Nebraska and pay $450 for rent and work doing any job while you play the progressive credentialism game in your spare time like I am.

https://www.timberlinelincoln.com/floorplan/linden

Maybe I should do that. I could go work a fun job as a vet tech making 30k a year with a much higher QOL....or go work as a zookeeper or something.

Yeah, pretty much. 30k a month you will probably spend one pay check on expenses and you'd save probably 800 or 900 bucks a month. Also, if you do consider it The Omaha Zoo is ranked in the top 5. If that is really what you are looking to do.

Not bad. Seems a lot more fun than being a lawyer anyway....I have thought about going back to school to become a vet, but that's too much schooling at this point. So I would consider doing vet tech/zookeeper instead.

I should have specified that this was for the LA market.

But I agree, going somewhere else with low cost of living where you work less because your money means more is the way to go. That's why I did. It's worked well so far.

[zot1]

Motion to sticky.

[MAPP]

Can you lecture pre-law at some undergraduate school? Or even become a law professor?

[tsujimoto74]

Someone please humor my curiosity: is biglaw in secondary markets as bad as NY/DC/etc.?
I'm planning on gunning for gov't either way, but the more you know.

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

Someone please humor my curiosity: is biglaw in secondary markets as bad as NY/DC/etc.?
I'm planning on gunning for gov't either way, but the more you know.

Done both NY biglaw and secondary market "biglaw" aka not a satellite office of a major market firm, and for me no - it's worlds apart. There are plenty of other significant issues, but hours are leaps, bounds and miles separate. This is also not universally true, but seems to be closer to the norm in my secondary or really tertiary market.

[MyNameIsntJames]

So the moral of the story in this thread appears to be do litigation if you want a semi-viable life in a BigLaw atmosphere. Wait until either ish hits the fan or you can't take it anymore & pray for a cushy gov job where you make $110k+ and work closer to a 9-5 40-50 work week.

It seems like the M&A and other stuff that's actually messing people up.

[philepistemer]

This thread is why you keep low overhead and save as much money as possible. Big law culture is all about getting people to feel like they need 200k+ per year (and obviously more the longer you stay), and as long as they convince you that you can't take a big pay cut to do something that you'd feel is more meaningful, you'll feel like OP.

[mvp99]

This thread is why you keep low overhead and save as much money as possible. Big law culture is all about getting people to feel like they need 200k+ per year (and obviously more the longer you stay), and as long as they convince you that you can't take a big pay cut to do something that you'd feel is more meaningful, you'll feel like OP.

check this out http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 28,00.html

[BizBro]

Man this thread is depressing af. Would you go to big law if you had no debt? What's the game plan for someone in that situation? I.e. save like 120-150k in 3 years, try to go into a certain practice area or make connects to gtfo asap?

[DanteAlighieri]

Someone please humor my curiosity: is biglaw in secondary markets as bad as NY/DC/etc.?
I'm planning on gunning for gov't either way, but the more you know.

Started in a secondary doing M&A. Moved for S/O. It was better and worse. M&A client's that could afford our rates didn't care. The rest of the office went home earlier (and started earlier) and then usually plugged in at night. If your secondary firm is tied to national/global corporate work I didn't really find it "better". The struggle of having a city that isn't really equipped (lack of cabs/food delivery options/dry cleaning pickup) for a single person who was working 15 hours a day made it tough. The CoL was lower, and enabled me to pay my loans off quickly. Had many friends who did have better lives, worked/billed less hours then their major mkt peers.

[DanteAlighieri]

Man this thread is depressing af. Would you go to big law if you had no debt? What's the game plan for someone in that situation? I.e. save like 120-150k in 3 years, try to go into a certain practice area or make connects to gtfo asap?

With no debt and no other top flight options, yes. If you just graduated and your options are (i) CCN - full scholarship or (ii)Bulge Bracket analyst. I would say try the analyst thing out. If you just graduated and your options are (i) CCN - full scholarship or (ii) pumping gas at the Route 37 Wawa (my options) then take the Scholarship, try the big firm (you may like it + you won't smell like gas when you get home) and hustle your way out if you don't like it.

[smaug]

So the moral of the story in this thread appears to be do litigation if you want a semi-viable life in a BigLaw atmosphere. Wait until either ish hits the fan or you can't take it anymore & pray for a cushy gov job where you make $110k+ and work closer to a 9-5 40-50 work week.

It seems like the M&A and other stuff that's actually messing people up.

Just do get a government job

[MyNameIsntJames]

So the moral of the story in this thread appears to be do litigation if you want a semi-viable life in a BigLaw atmosphere. Wait until either ish hits the fan or you can't take it anymore & pray for a cushy gov job where you make $110k+ and work closer to a 9-5 40-50 work week.

It seems like the M&A and other stuff that's actually messing people up.

Just do get a government job

+1. Tempting to squeeze some money out of these firms though. It seems like you either go to BigLaw straight after you pass the bar or your window is closed permanently