Penn Students Taking Questions Forum

[kurla88]

Does Penn assign summer reading for 1L?

No, but you will have assigned readings before all your first classes.

[Georgiana]

Anita Allen is relatively famous in the field of privacy law, and just got appointed to Obama's bioethics panel. Enjoyed the material (including her textbook), but not the class.

The corporate law faculty are also huge in that area (Penn profs, like Wachter, Rock, Fisch, and Baker, had several of the most cited corporate and securities articles last year. I like David Skeel a lot, too, and knew him from his book Icarus in the Boardroom before law school).

Lisa Scottaline, an alum and prolific mystery author, adjuncts.

I would add Burbank to this list based on his Civil Procedure knowledge as well as being special master for the NFL.

Burke-White is also big in international law but he is working with the Obama peeps for at least another year.

Wolff is on the up and up but I've heard that he'll be leaving Penn after next year.

As far as best:
Roosevelt for conflicts (not con law)
Yoo for anything
Johnston (who is leaving for UVA)
Gordon for anything
Ruger

Ive heard great things about:
Bibas
Parchomovsky
Rudovsky
Struve
Wolff

[alex06]

Hey guys! I have some timing questions. When do people tend to move to Philly? Mid-August? Right before classes start on Sept 1st?

And, when does the whole loan process start? Will the fin aid office be sending me documentation and such or do I need to start it on my own? When do people typically get the first disbursement of $ to help with moving in, etc?

I'm sure the fin aid office could answer the second round of questions, but you all are friendly and helpful I'm going to have to keep this in mind for next year when I have the chance.

[DelDad]

Ive heard great things about:
Bibas
Parchomovsky
Rudovsky
Struve
Wolff

Parchomovsky is fantastic, and THE person you want in your corner if you are interested in academia out of Penn. Great person, accessible, brilliant.

Rudovsky is also a great guy who has been practicing criminal defense forever. Very laid back, knows his material backwards and forwards and enjoys teaching it. But people either love or hate his teaching style (I've taken three courses with him and he advised me for a moot court, so there's my answer), and his curves are even more B+ heavy that the rest of the school.

[Core]

Do you guys recommend using LEEWS or reading E&Es during 0L summer? If not, do you recommend reading anything else?

[secretsmoker]

Do you guys recommend using LEEWS or reading E&Es during 0L summer? If not, do you recommend reading anything else?

Another rising 3L at Penn here. I would just relax; get your mind and body in a good place before classes begin. I would not worry at all about knowing any substantive material, although it might be useful to seek out general law school advice. I read parts of "Law School Confidential," which you might borrow from someone, but I can't say that I used many of the tips in the book. Instead, most of the good advice I got came from current law students.

[Core]

Do you guys recommend using LEEWS or reading E&Es during 0L summer? If not, do you recommend reading anything else?

Another rising 3L at Penn here. I would just relax; get your mind and body in a good place before classes begin. I would not worry at all about knowing any substantive material, although it might be useful to seek out general law school advice. I read parts of "Law School Confidential," which you might borrow from someone, but I can't say that I used many of the tips in the book. Instead, most of the good advice I got came from current law students.

Thanks. Sounds reasonable. I will probably read GTM. I skimmed parts of Law School Confidential and can't really say how useful it was.
Quick question - does Penn offer a loan for students to purchase a laptop? I can't seem to find anything about this on the web site, but I know most schools seem to offer a laptop reimbursement loan.

[Core]

Hey guys! I have some timing questions. When do people tend to move to Philly? Mid-August? Right before classes start on Sept 1st?

And, when does the whole loan process start? Will the fin aid office be sending me documentation and such or do I need to start it on my own? When do people typically get the first disbursement of $ to help with moving in, etc?

I'm sure the fin aid office could answer the second round of questions, but you all are friendly and helpful I'm going to have to keep this in mind for next year when I have the chance.

I called to ask about this earlier. It begins later this month and the financial aid office is going to be in touch with us in the month or so about loan processing. People get the first disbursement of $$ within a week or so of class but you should expect to cover your deposit and first month's rent on your own.

[lostmyname]

Quick question - does Penn offer a loan for students to purchase a laptop? I can't seem to find anything about this on the web site, but I know most schools seem to offer a laptop reimbursement loan.

I'm fairly confident that they will make an adjustment to your expected school costs so you can take out extra loan money. But of course, you'd have to call them to ask for that adjustment individually.

[lostmyname]

Do you guys recommend using LEEWS or reading E&Es during 0L summer? If not, do you recommend reading anything else?

I didn't use LEEWS at all this year, but I would say don't use LEEWS until you have your bearings a little bit with respect to "legal" thinking. As for E&Es, wait until you get started or at least have your syllabus because there may be topics/cases that the professor doesn't care about, and moreover, it would be impossible to absorb anything meaningful without the most basic background -- it's just mindless torture otherwise. Plus you always want to keep in mind your professor's interpretation of the subject.

[lostmyname]

Hey guys! I have some timing questions. When do people tend to move to Philly? Mid-August? Right before classes start on Sept 1st?

People tend to move at all of those times. If you don't know anyone in Philly already or don't have anything in particular to do, I would probably wait until a little later. If you're participating in the pre/orientation activities, give yourself a few days (like, 2 or 3) just to unpack your stuff, unless you don't find unpacking stressful and think you can handle dealing with organizing/setting up your household while also going out and partying/recovering a whole bunch. IIRC, though, not all the orientation activities are mandatory (I think); I remember skipping a bunch.

[lostmyname]

Roosevelt for conflicts (not con law)

I really disliked Roosevelt for Con Law. But is he really widely recommended for Conflicts? I could stand the idea of taking another class from him if I knew he actually *taught* in that class... I feel like I didn't learn a single thing in Con Law and certainly wasn't provoked to think about the applications of the concepts that we studied.

[lostmyname]

Does Penn assign summer reading for 1L?

No, but you will have assigned readings before all your first classes.

Yeah, and it takes a lot more time than you would think!! So try to make enough time for it as soon as you get your assignments.

[Georgiana]

Do you guys recommend using LEEWS or reading E&Es during 0L summer? If not, do you recommend reading anything else?

Another rising 3L at Penn here. I would just relax; get your mind and body in a good place before classes begin. I would not worry at all about knowing any substantive material, although it might be useful to seek out general law school advice. I read parts of "Law School Confidential," which you might borrow from someone, but I can't say that I used many of the tips in the book. Instead, most of the good advice I got came from current law students.

+1 on this... I think just reading a LOT to get yourself to reading a LOT would be a good idea... nonfiction is probably more helpful than fiction, but just read! (plus it'll be your last chance to read things YOU want to read... I miss books!).

[Georgiana]

Hey guys! I have some timing questions. When do people tend to move to Philly? Mid-August? Right before classes start on Sept 1st?

And, when does the whole loan process start? Will the fin aid office be sending me documentation and such or do I need to start it on my own? When do people typically get the first disbursement of $ to help with moving in, etc?

I'm sure the fin aid office could answer the second round of questions, but you all are friendly and helpful I'm going to have to keep this in mind for next year when I have the chance.

I called to ask about this earlier. It begins later this month and the financial aid office is going to be in touch with us in the month or so about loan processing. People get the first disbursement of $$ within a week or so of class but you should expect to cover your deposit and first month's rent on your own.

Yea, hopefully you have some $$ (or a credit card) to cover moving expenses. If you really need money, you can contact the Penn financial aid people (not the law school) and they can possibly give you an advance on your loan money assuming you've been approved by then.

[Georgiana]

Quick question - does Penn offer a loan for students to purchase a laptop? I can't seem to find anything about this on the web site, but I know most schools seem to offer a laptop reimbursement loan.

I'm fairly confident that they will make an adjustment to your expected school costs so you can take out extra loan money. But of course, you'd have to call them to ask for that adjustment individually.

You can get up to $3k for a laptop.

Additionally, if there is something else you need money for and you don't need a laptop, you can claim to need a laptop and print up and invoice for a laptop at whatever cost you need and they will give you the loan increase, you don't have to prove that you bought a laptop.

[Georgiana]

Hey guys! I have some timing questions. When do people tend to move to Philly? Mid-August? Right before classes start on Sept 1st?

People tend to move at all of those times. If you don't know anyone in Philly already or don't have anything in particular to do, I would probably wait until a little later. If you're participating in the pre/orientation activities, give yourself a few days (like, 2 or 3) just to unpack your stuff, unless you don't find unpacking stressful and think you can handle dealing with organizing/setting up your household while also going out and partying/recovering a whole bunch. IIRC, though, not all the orientation activities are mandatory (I think); I remember skipping a bunch.

I moved at the end of July since thats when my other lease ended. It was nice to have a month to myself to get to know the area. We also set up a quizzo night once a week with people who were already here which was a good place to get to know people. And there are very few mandatory orientation events... the dinner at the constitution center (though I don't think they would know if you didn't go) and the next day or two of them talking and talking and of course your first legal writing class.

[Georgiana]

Roosevelt for conflicts (not con law)

I really disliked Roosevelt for Con Law. But is he really widely recommended for Conflicts? I could stand the idea of taking another class from him if I knew he actually *taught* in that class... I feel like I didn't learn a single thing in Con Law and certainly wasn't provoked to think about the applications of the concepts that we studied.

I wasn't a fan of him for con law either, in fact I skipped a bunch and still did well because class just wasn't necessary. If you didn't like his personality at all (the awkward, young, trying to be funny professor) you will probably still not like him. But I find him adorable in that regard and he is definitely better at teaching conflicts and you can tell he finds it much more interesting. The exam is the same kind of thing, 24 hour straightforward takehome exam with a word limit. If you have questions let me know.

Side note: If you want to take Conflicts it will be with him since I don't think Wolff will be here after this coming year and Wolff isn't teaching Conflicts this year. KR is the only other one currently teaching it.

[Georgiana]

Just wanted to bump this for the rising 2Ls. I'm sure you are all out happily celebrating the fact that 1L is over, but remember the writing comp starts bright and early Monday morning!

I'll be there to proctor on Monday so in theory I know something about what's going on. Let me know if you have any questions about what to expect It should be two days of fun! haha

Good luck to all of you! And if any of you end up on JIL, I look forward to working with you next year

[lostmyname]

Georgiana, thanks for the response as well as the words of support! One last set of questions: my understanding is that Conflicts and Federal Courts taught by Struve are essentially the same class. If that's true, which one would you recommend taking? I've heard great things about Struve's teaching -- she certainly has a wonderful speaking manner -- but I've also heard that Federal Courts is a very gunner-heavy class, possibly more so than Conflicts. Would you agree with that assessment?

[secretsmoker]

Georgiana, thanks for the response as well as the words of support! One last set of questions: my understanding is that Conflicts and Federal Courts taught by Struve are essentially the same class. If that's true, which one would you recommend taking? I've heard great things about Struve's teaching -- she certainly has a wonderful speaking manner -- but I've also heard that Federal Courts is a very gunner-heavy class, possibly more so than Conflicts. Would you agree with that assessment?

Although this was directed at Georgiana I thought I would write a response because I also took conflicts with Roosevelt, and I liked the subject matter a lot. He came out with a thin book on the subject last semester, which will make a great supplement (or perhaps replacement) for the readings next year. However, I have never heard that Conflicts is "essentially the same class." Granted, I have not taken Fed Courts yet, but I'm pretty sure they don't overlap to the point of redundancy. Nor did I really get the impression that conflicts was "gunner-heavy," which is a label I might only reserve for Wachter's Corps course my 2L year (which, by the way, is nevertheless the Corps course you should choose). Conflicts, and almost all of the other classes I took, were gunner-light. Of course, Georgiana may have a very different viewpoint.

[Georgiana]

Georgiana, thanks for the response as well as the words of support! One last set of questions: my understanding is that Conflicts and Federal Courts taught by Struve are essentially the same class. If that's true, which one would you recommend taking? I've heard great things about Struve's teaching -- she certainly has a wonderful speaking manner -- but I've also heard that Federal Courts is a very gunner-heavy class, possibly more so than Conflicts. Would you agree with that assessment?

Conflicts CERTAINLY does not overlap with Fed Courts. And its not a gunner heavy class at all. It's one of the few classes I recommend from this year.

Fed Courts does have quite a bit of overlap with Con Lit from what I've heard and both are gunner heavy classes (people wanting to clerk). Struve is supposed to be great in general but I've heard she was better for Civ Pro than she was for Fed Courts (from people who had her for both). Wolff is teaching FC next spring and he is supposed to be an amazing prof. (I'm considering taking the class with him). If you want to take something with Struve, I'd recommend taking her Federal Indian Law class next year, it's her pet interest so I'm sure it would be a good class (and its an interesting subject imo).

[lostmyname]

Although this was directed at Georgiana I thought I would write a response because I also took conflicts with Roosevelt, and I liked the subject matter a lot. He came out with a thin book on the subject last semester, which will make a great supplement (or perhaps replacement) for the readings next year. However, I have never heard that Conflicts is "essentially the same class." Granted, I have not taken Fed Courts yet, but I'm pretty sure they don't overlap to the point of redundancy. Nor did I really get the impression that conflicts was "gunner-heavy," which is a label I might only reserve for Wachter's Corps course my 2L year (which, by the way, is nevertheless the Corps course you should choose). Conflicts, and almost all of the other classes I took, were gunner-light. Of course, Georgiana may have a very different viewpoint.

Conflicts CERTAINLY does not overlap with Fed Courts. And its not a gunner heavy class at all. It's one of the few classes I recommend from this year.

Cool, thanks guys! OK, I guess I have more questions. What was the final for Conflicts like? I ask because this year's Con final was killer and very swear-inducing among most of my section.

secretsmoker, why do you so strongly suggest Wachter? I mean, I know he's the more intense teacher, but would taking Skeel really be such a bad move?

[secretsmoker]

Cool, thanks guys! OK, I guess I have more questions. What was the final for Conflicts like? I ask because this year's Con final was killer and very swear-inducing among most of my section.

secretsmoker, why do you so strongly suggest Wachter? I mean, I know he's the more intense teacher, but would taking Skeel really be such a bad move?

We probably shouldn't hijack this thread for the purposes of talking about upper-level course recommendations, but I guess 0Ls will have fewer questions at this point so no harm. The final for conflicts was a take-home, which isn't something that KR has done every year (but I think he has in the last few years), and it was moderately tough but very straight-forward. I did not study the material before the exam as hard as others, but I did have a detailed outline and it took me about 15 or 16 of the 24 hours. Of course I also work pretty meticulously, and this was the same amount of time I put in for easier take homes last semester. I've often heard that his grading can be frustrating because people perceive his grading as subjective in some way. I honestly didn't review my final with him, so I can't attest to that. If you read his short (and interesting if you like the subject matter) book from cover to cover and outline the rules, you should be fine. But it's certainly no breeze.

I strongly suggest Wachter because from what I have heard about others' experiences with other corps classes you will learn the most from Wachter. He is a good professor, and the class is not easy, but the exam was very fair and he does a very good job of teaching it. I know you may be reeling from your first year exams and may feel wary about taking any difficult law school courses again, but I think taking at least one or two difficult but very well-taught classes a semester is a good idea to get the most out of your education here.

[Core]

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... iii_clerks

Question about the content above: Am I missing something about Penn's clerkship placement? There seems to be a pervasive notion that YHSCC > all for clerkships, but Penn seems to be right up there with them.