Texas 1L taking questions, 2010-'11 edition Forum

[lisjjen]

The law school is very diverse, afaik, it has the highest % minority of any T14.

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UT troll?

[Rory1987]

Can anyone comment on UT's exchange programs with Nottingham and Edinburgh and allow a student to earn an LLM? Anyone think this may be of use or know anyone who has done this?

[smigner]

Have you or anyone you know lived in the University Apartments? My wife and I are thinking about applying, despite the seeming nonexistence of pictures online, if only because we won't be able to actually make a trip to Austin until a month or so before the semester starts. The description sounds pretty nice on the school's website, but no pictures!

[lisjjen]

Have you or anyone you know lived in the University Apartments? My wife and I are thinking about applying, despite the seeming nonexistence of pictures online, if only because we won't be able to actually make a trip to Austin until a month or so before the semester starts. The description sounds pretty nice on the school's website, but no pictures!

One of the guys I stayed with lived in the University apartments. They're pretty nice. But you have to have a high tolerance for undergrads - loud thumping music next door. Crying sorority girls on their cell phones at 3am. The smell of green emanating from various places around the complex. Again, not all the time, but even once a week is a lot for me.

Again, they're cheap and they're nice, and if it's just you and your wife, you can use that extra bedroom for something fun.

[keayts]

Hey, UT 3L here willing to chime in on a few topics brought up in this thread.

If you want to practice in NY/CA/DC, it's entirely possible to do so if you go to UT, although your ability to attract attention from firms will be determined in part by your grades and geographic ties to those regions, as well as the firms you are interested in applying to. Even highly selective firms, such as MTO/WC/WLRK, will be interested in candidates from UT, though your ability to convert that interest into a summer position will be heavily determined by your grades.

Still, you don't have to be on the Texas Law Review to obtain interest from highly selective firms from out of state. I know people who are not on law review who are headed or have headed to Latham, Quinn, Simpson Thatcher, Skadden, and Covington. Skadden in particular likes Texas Law grads. Also, Texas alumni hold key positions in several major firms, including positions on the hiring committees of Sullivan & Cromwell and Cravath.

UTLaw tends to have a good number of alumni in the NY market, and the Career Services Office puts on a job fair at the start of 2L year for people interested in NYC offices of major firms. The law school has fewer alumni in CA and DC, but they are there.

[keayts]

If you want a place to live 1L year, I recommend the Century Apartment complex, where I currently live. It's located directly across the street from the law school, making it a very convenient place to stay, and comes with a covered parking space. The prices are very reasonable, ranging from $550/month for an efficiency to (I believe) $675/month for a 1-bedroom.

Alternatively, you could consider purchasing a condo in Austin, which may be the best option if you are from out-of-state, since residential property ownership for a year qualifies you for in-state tuition. The $30k tuition savings over 2 years (if you buy before 1L year) + savings from not having to pay rent should more than offset the purchase price, closing costs, and mortgage interest. Plus, there's a good chance the property will appreciate slightly during the 3 years you are in Austin, and even if it does not, the tuition savings should offset the loss.

[keayts]

BTW, for those of you looking at NLJ statistics, don't forget that firm size isn't necessarily indicative of firm quality. Susman Godfrey, Gibbs & Bruns, and Yetter Coleman, three Texas-based litigation boutiques, don't appear on the list because they don't have enough lawyers, but all are incredibly well-regarded firms, and highly selective (Susman requires a federal clerkship of all its associates). Susman and Gibbs have associate profit-sharing in place, which can result in bonuses exceeding 100% base salary. Susman and Yetter have multiple former Supreme Court clerks on their rosters.

[BeachandRun23]

^^^ Great info here. Thanks!

[lisjjen]

Here I am asking about cockroaches and baseball tickets and then this deluge of awesome information comes out. Thanks keayts!

[keayts]

No problem. BTW, one thing I forgot to mention; the NLJ 250 statistics don't include people going into judicial clerkships. (That's why Yale is ranked #14 - roughly half their class does a federal clerkship after graduation.) If you do a federal clerkship or a state supreme court clerkship, you will have little difficulty getting a job afterward. Texas happens to have a very good judicial clerkship program in place, sending more than its share of students to clerkships, based on the number it should be sending relative to its ranking and school size.

[lisjjen]

If you want a place to live 1L year, I recommend the Century Apartment complex, where I currently live.

How hard is it to get into these? I'm in Idaho so I have no way to visit first.

[smigner]

Just a follow-up on my question about the graduate apartments provided by the university. I've been in touch with a staff member who assured me that those which I was looking at are nowhere near undergrad housing and that they haven't had any noise complaints in years.

Also, an honest question: what is the likelihood that property purchased right now will appreciate over the next few years? Given the current housing market, I wouldn't think you would want to purchase anything unless you planned on living in it for 5-10 years. But, that's in general. I know absolutely nothing about property values in Austin or Texas, specifically.

[japes]

Just a follow-up on my question about the graduate apartments provided by the university. I've been in touch with a staff member who assured me that those which I was looking at are nowhere near undergrad housing and that they haven't had any noise complaints in years.

Also, an honest question: what is the likelihood that property purchased right now will appreciate over the next few years? Given the current housing market, I wouldn't think you would want to purchase anything unless you planned on living in it for 5-10 years. But, that's in general. I know absolutely nothing about property values in Austin or Texas, specifically.

If you're buying real estate to get in-state tuition, you save $30k overall, which is probably way cheaper than any property value losses you'd have. FYI

[smigner]

If you're buying real estate to get in-state tuition, you save $30k overall, which is probably way cheaper than any property value losses you'd have. FYI

What I worry about, though, is that buying property is a commitment to a place, especially right now. Depreciation doesn't even matter if, after three years of law school, you're left with a mortgage on a condo you don't want and can't get sold because of the flooded American real estate market.

Things could be different in 3-5 years, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm using all that wish energy on making sure the jobs market is better by then.

[keayts]

If you want a place to live 1L year, I recommend the Century Apartment complex, where I currently live.

How hard is it to get into these? I'm in Idaho so I have no way to visit first.

No idea how many units are left on the market (mine is). Try emailing the landlady at kcb003 (at) austin (dot) rr (dot) com; her name is Kathleen Byrd.

[keayts]

If you're buying real estate to get in-state tuition, you save $30k overall, which is probably way cheaper than any property value losses you'd have. FYI

What I worry about, though, is that buying property is a commitment to a place, especially right now. Depreciation doesn't even matter if, after three years of law school, you're left with a mortgage on a condo you don't want and can't get sold because of the flooded American real estate market.

Things could be different in 3-5 years, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm using all that wish energy on making sure the jobs market is better by then.

A 2L friend of mine says his condo is appreciating nicely right now. His complex in the Riverside neighborhood was nearly empty when he moved in, but it's pretty full at this point. Riverside isn't the most ideal location, either, due to crime concerns (depending on where in Riverside you are) and the distance from campus, so that the values there are increasing is a good sign.

Another friend of mine is investing long-term in properties in Hyde Park, just north of campus, as he's betting on Austin's long-term growth and building restrictions to increase the value of his properties.

I think that if you buy a place close to campus, you probably won't have to worry about your property losing too much value. The limited amount of real estate close to campus and demand from students should protect your property values from drastic changes. Worse comes to worse, you could rent the property out for a few years after you graduate while you wait for the values to rebound.

[smigner]

I stand corrected.

http://www.housingpredictor.com/2011/best-markets.html corroborates your observations. Austin is one of the top housing markets in the country right now, according to this site (note: I didn't really dig in to see where they got their numbers; I'm determined enough to putz around looking for real estate predictions for the year, but too lazy to see who provides them). Though, I must add, in the Texas specific predictions on the site, it does warn that the state's relative immunity to a lot of the worst aspects of the slowdown is catching up with it a bit right now.

All that said, I think I'll be renting.

[Rory1987]

No one care to comment on the LLM thing?

[philosoraptor]

No one care to comment on the LLM thing?

Don't bother getting an LLM unless you're absolutely sure it will help your career. Otherwise it's just spending a lot more money and time for nothing. By all means go abroad (it's fairly popular here, from what I understand), but there's no reason to get an extra degree unless you have a specific plan that requires it.

[keayts]

No one care to comment on the LLM thing?

Don't bother getting an LLM unless you're absolutely sure it will help your career. Otherwise it's just spending a lot more money and time for nothing. By all means go abroad (it's fairly popular here, from what I understand), but there's no reason to get an extra degree unless you have a specific plan that requires it.

Tax LLMs are worth it. If you want to pursue a career in tax law, getting a tax LLM is highly recommended (I've heard it's almost required).

[philosoraptor]

No one care to comment on the LLM thing?

Don't bother getting an LLM unless you're absolutely sure it will help your career. Otherwise it's just spending a lot more money and time for nothing. By all means go abroad (it's fairly popular here, from what I understand), but there's no reason to get an extra degree unless you have a specific plan that requires it.

Tax LLMs are worth it. If you want to pursue a career in tax law, getting a tax LLM is highly recommended (I've heard it's almost required).

True, but I think the one Rory referred to was the Edinburgh LLM, which as far as I know is not in tax. I just googled the program, and this came up; it may be of interest: http://www.jordanhatcher.com/about/ut-e ... aw-jd-llm/. (Can't speak to its accuracy and whatnot.)

[Rory1987]

No one care to comment on the LLM thing?

Don't bother getting an LLM unless you're absolutely sure it will help your career. Otherwise it's just spending a lot more money and time for nothing. By all means go abroad (it's fairly popular here, from what I understand), but there's no reason to get an extra degree unless you have a specific plan that requires it.

Tax LLMs are worth it. If you want to pursue a career in tax law, getting a tax LLM is highly recommended (I've heard it's almost required).

True, but I think the one Rory referred to was the Edinburgh LLM, which as far as I know is not in tax. I just googled the program, and this came up; it may be of interest: http://www.jordanhatcher.com/about/ut-e ... aw-jd-llm/. (Can't speak to its accuracy and whatnot.)

Hmmm, thanks a lot for this! This actually makes it seem very useful!

[Guchster]

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[Shem]

First time posting. I'm from the Northeast, and I've decided to put my tax return to semi-good use by flying down this weekend for April 8th OMV.

Question - are cabs easy to come by at all hours of the day to get me from Downtown to campus? Is there a cab number to call (i lived in ATL for 4 years and they are all about the cab numbers down there) Is there a UT shuttle between those two points?

I'm feeling good about UT right now despite its distance from home and where I'd eventually like to end up. - of course it's all speculation until tomorrow. But in my past I've found that feelings go a long way..

Man, I feel like a freak. It also took me about 25 minutes to figure out how to post something and I still don't know if it is going to work- I'm a living anachronism- someone really must teach me the art of blogging as it somehow seems crucial to my survival.

[lisjjen]

This is my first time posting on TLS. I know you guys hate lurkers, but I didn't feel compelled to contribute if I had nothing to offer.

What percentage of the class does BigLaw? In terms of BigLaw salaries, do you find the $140,000 mediate private sector salary accurate, or do you question it like in the Badenhausen article on Forbes?

I was kind of startled to see that Texas had a $89,000 average starting salary.

Where did you see the $89k starting salary? The lowest I've seen was the Princeton Review's number that put them at $109k for all graduates.

First time posting. I'm from the Northeast, and I've decided to put my tax return to semi-good use by flying down this weekend for April 8th OMV.

Question - are cabs easy to come by at all hours of the day to get me from Downtown to campus? Is there a cab number to call (i lived in ATL for 4 years and they are all about the cab numbers down there) Is there a UT shuttle between those two points?

I'm feeling good about UT right now despite its distance from home and where I'd eventually like to end up. - of course it's all speculation until tomorrow. But in my past I've found that feelings go a long way..

Man, I feel like a freak. It also took me about 25 minutes to figure out how to post something and I still don't know if it is going to work- I'm a living anachronism- someone really must teach me the art of blogging as it somehow seems crucial to my survival.

We're getting a lot of first time posters. I think you'll enjoy Austin. FWIW, before I went, I had the mind set that I could tolerate TX for 3 years. As it turns out, I still don't know if I could tolerate Texas, but I know that I love Austin. The closest comparisons I could find were San Francisco or Portland, but that's West Coast so you'll have to figure out your own analogy. As far as taxis, I know I saw a lot, but then again, they were down by the bars on the weekends.