WUSTL Recent Grad (and others) Taking Questions Forum

[TatteredDignity]

Yeah, I am originally from KC and all of my family is still in the area. I am really hoping for Vandy, but would take WUSTL if the offer was better and now that I know I could find work back home It sounds even better. Thanks for reposting that for me.

With the caveat that this is my personal opinion only, I honestly think that, if you're dead set on KC, WUSTL is the better choice, even with equal offers (which I suspect won't be the case). Every KC firm does OCI here, and most of them have St. Louis offices filled with WUSTL alums with whom they often work closely. I met KC hiring partners in at the 1L receptions in St. Louis, many of whom turned into valuable connections, and the proximity made it pretty easy to go to KC for lunches with associates and eventually for interviews. In fact, one large KC firm had a reception at a bar here in St. Louis just to meet WUSTL students. You'll be in the best position for networking with KC firms here, next only to staying in KC.

I know Vandy is a higher ranked school, and I have no doubt that it's a great school in general, but I'm not sure many hirers in KC will be aware of its "superiority" because of how highly they regard WUSTL, which means they wouldn't necessarily be willing to reach deeper into Vandy's class. I may be failing to consider something, but I can't really see a reason for choosing Vandy over WUSTL for KC. Again, this is only my opinion and it surely wouldn't hurt to contact KC firms and try to get some input, and of course the analysis changes if you're not set on KC.

By the bold, do you mean to imply that it could potentially be better to go to KU/UMKC for networking purposes?

[Rock Chalk]

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[TatteredDignity]

By the bold, do you mean to imply that it could potentially be better to go to KU/UMKC for networking purposes?

Yes. For networking, there's nothing like living in your target market and being able to attend all the local bar functions, mingle with attorneys, visit offices nearly at-will, answer questions with "I chose this school because I want this city," etc. That said, networking is the only relative advangtage you'd get from those schools, and my post was meant to indicate that the advantage in this case isn't as significant as it usually is when going to school outside of your target market due to the substantial connections between the cities and thier firms.

Understood. So, due to the "substantial" connections between KC and WashU you mentioned earlier and the fact that WashU is a better school than KU/UMKC, overall it's still better to go to WUSTL for KC "biglaw"?

[soccerfreak]

In keeping with the "connections" conversation, what is your guys' impression of the prospects for St. Louisans at Wash U who want to stay in town after graduation? Do they have a significant boost?

[stratocophic]

In keeping with the "connections" conversation, what is your guys' impression of the prospects for St. Louisans at Wash U who want to stay in town after graduation? Do they have a significant boost?

Over people from out of town who want to stay in St. Louis, yes, but you aren't going to get any jobs your grades wouldn't have gotten you in the first place. Between WUSTL/SLU/Missouri and the odd Illinois or T14 kid who comes from St. Louis, there aren't that many SA positions in the city to go around.

[Hannibal]

In keeping with the "connections" conversation, what is your guys' impression of the prospects for St. Louisans at Wash U who want to stay in town after graduation? Do they have a significant boost?

Over people from out of town who want to stay in St. Louis, yes, but you aren't going to get any jobs your grades wouldn't have gotten you in the first place. Between WUSTL/SLU/Missouri and the odd Illinois or T14 kid who comes from St. Louis, there aren't that many SA positions in the city to go around.

I've heard the 1L summer is the most important thing you can do to prove you want STL, but is there anything else we can do other than get married/buy property?

[stratocophic]

In keeping with the "connections" conversation, what is your guys' impression of the prospects for St. Louisans at Wash U who want to stay in town after graduation? Do they have a significant boost?

Over people from out of town who want to stay in St. Louis, yes, but you aren't going to get any jobs your grades wouldn't have gotten you in the first place. Between WUSTL/SLU/Missouri and the odd Illinois or T14 kid who comes from St. Louis, there aren't that many SA positions in the city to go around.

I've heard the 1L summer is the most important thing you can do to prove you want STL, but is there anything else we can do other than get married/buy property?

Can't think of anything offhand except for advising you to take advantage of the fact that St. Louis isn't a huge legal mecca - go to the networking stuff that the ABA does, and definitely go to the 1L receptions that firms put on (Lewis Rice, Husch, and the Sonnenschein office were the only 3 that did one this year). They have you sign in so I'd imagine that they might take note of the people who are willing to drive 10 minutes across town in order to have free food and drinks and listen to them pitch their firm... vs. the people who weren't. Maybe they don't, just my suspicions. Other than that, get good grades - there's no substitute. You might not get the job, but it'll at least guarantee you an interview or two with places in town even if you don't have great connections.

OCI's going to be interesting for those of us trying to stay in town

[Hannibal]

I was thinking that I could offer to backload my contract, with the difference paid back in the case of getting laid off or fired. I'm really annoyed the contracts are so rigid.

[Rock Chalk]

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[thexfactor]

just curious, does anyone patrol the parking lot right next to the law school?

[stratocophic]

just curious, does anyone patrol the parking lot right next to the law school?

I've parked there a few times during the day and never been ticketed, but never more than 2-4 hours and not in the morning, seems like they'd be more likely to patrol early in the day. I usually try to park somewhere unobtrusive, like in the middle on the 3rd or 4th deck. If it's evening or night you should be good to go, I've parked there for 5 or 6 hours at a time and nothing happened.

[Rock Chalk]

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[romothesavior]

just curious, does anyone patrol the parking lot right next to the law school?

I have gone entire days in the lot right off of Throop without getting a ticket. If you go down an entire level from the top, you can park there and almost never get ticketed. The main level and the upper levels seem to be the main areas that get patrolled.

[Hannibal]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

[romothesavior]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

Top 10% get on LR automatically with a good faith effort on the write-on. Law review itself has 5-10 spots at the very most open to write-on people, the rest grade on. Other journals are decided by the write-on. You do the competition, they score it, and then you get whichever one accepts you that you ranked the highest.

[Hannibal]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

Top 10% get on LR automatically with a good faith effort on the write-on. Law review itself has 5-10 spots at the very most open to write-on people, the rest grade on. Other journals are decided by the write-on. You do the competition, they score it, and then you get whichever one accepts you that you ranked the highest.

I meant is it going to be an opinion piece, or more legal writing kind of stuff?

[romothesavior]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

Top 10% get on LR automatically with a good faith effort on the write-on. Law review itself has 5-10 spots at the very most open to write-on people, the rest grade on. Other journals are decided by the write-on. You do the competition, they score it, and then you get whichever one accepts you that you ranked the highest.

I meant is it going to be an opinion piece, or more legal writing kind of stuff?

Part of it is a Bluebooking exercise, and the majority is a legal "note" or something that you have to write using cases and stuff that they provide.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

There is a week-long write-on competition at Wash U to determine that. It is immediately after finals for the 1L Class. Last year, there were 3 journals that one could try to be on. They recently added a 4th (which has been here for a few years, but only now got school approval). All journals share the same writing competition. Thus, you can only be on one journal, and if you get on, will only be invited by one journal. If you turn down that offer, you will not be on any journal.

In all seriousness, I don't think it's terribly difficult to get on one of the journals.

[Hannibal]

Part of it is a Bluebooking exercise, and the majority is a legal "note" or something that you have to write using cases and stuff that they provide.

Moments like these make me realize just how little I know about the work actually done in LS.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

Top 10% get on LR automatically with a good faith effort on the write-on. Law review itself has 5-10 spots at the very most open to write-on people, the rest grade on. Other journals are decided by the write-on. You do the competition, they score it, and then you get whichever one accepts you that you ranked the highest.

My guess is that it's closer to 20 spots. Not kidding. I have multiple friends on LR that were not in the top 10%. But I could be off by a bit.

As sad as this may sound, part of that is because about 7 people who might otherwise be on LR end up transferring out after 1L.

[romothesavior]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

Top 10% get on LR automatically with a good faith effort on the write-on. Law review itself has 5-10 spots at the very most open to write-on people, the rest grade on. Other journals are decided by the write-on. You do the competition, they score it, and then you get whichever one accepts you that you ranked the highest.

My guess is that it's closer to 20 spots. Not kidding. I have multiple friends on LR that were not in the top 10%. But I could be off by a bit.

As sad as this may sound, part of that is because about 7 people who might otherwise be on LR end up transferring out after 1L.

Oh really? I heard from someone on LR today at the open house that it is 5-6. I'm hoping it is higher.

And yeah, the more transfers the better (at least for LR!)

[Stephanie13]

I've read that at most schools, journals are determined by a writing competition. What kind of writing is it at Wash U?

Top 10% get on LR automatically with a good faith effort on the write-on. Law review itself has 5-10 spots at the very most open to write-on people, the rest grade on. Other journals are decided by the write-on. You do the competition, they score it, and then you get whichever one accepts you that you ranked the highest.

My guess is that it's closer to 20 spots. Not kidding. I have multiple friends on LR that were not in the top 10%. But I could be off by a bit.

As sad as this may sound, part of that is because about 7 people who might otherwise be on LR end up transferring out after 1L.

Oh really? I heard from someone on LR today at the open house that it is 5-6. I'm hoping it is higher.

And yeah, the more transfers the better (at least for LR!)

I was told by a 3L on LR that it was about 20ish write on spots but that sounds high to me as well. When I was at the open house today they said there are about 45 people on law review and our class top ten percent is about 27 people so I guess if you factor in people that might transfer out then it might be about 20 people (the 3L also told me that he knew some people, maybe just one person, who was top ten percent and chose not to do law review and did another journal instead). Although are the 3Ls counted in the 45 people?

[Rock Chalk]

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[You Gotta Have Faith]

Oh really? I heard from someone on LR today at the open house that it is 5-6. I'm hoping it is higher.

And yeah, the more transfers the better (at least for LR!)

I know 20 sounds high, but I really don't believe I am mistaken. Take a look at the current masthead:
http://lawreview.wustl.edu/membership/current-masthead/

Only the "Staff Editors" are 2Ls. And there are 40-ish of them. That means that including 3Ls, it is closer to an 80-90 membership. And yes, only 27, give or take, actually make it on because of grades. After transfers, I would say there are at least 20 spots available for LR beyond the top 10%.

Give or take, my guess is that 4-7 of the top 10% transfer out. I'm not actually willing to say that all of our transfers are in the top 10%, because it's just not true. We have two people who went to UCLA/USC/Vandy who were only a bit above the median. And there's a person who was in the 20% range that went to UVA/NW/Duke/Penn. That said, the majority of people that leave WUSTL do so for places like NYU, Chicago, and Stanford. There are about 10 or so transfers out annually. Very few find it worthwhile to leave their spot in the top 10% for anything less than CCN. And many don't even leave for that.

People may not like to hear this, but as much as it helps, LR by no means signifies that one was in the top 10%. That's just not an assumption that one can make at WUSTL. There are people on LR that have to work hard, or wait it out, to find their jobs like a lot of the class. Maybe half of LR is top 10%, but that's about what it is.

Btw, good luck to Romo and Stephanie13 with write-on!! Y'all are gonna do great

[stratocophic]

Oh really? I heard from someone on LR today at the open house that it is 5-6. I'm hoping it is higher.

And yeah, the more transfers the better (at least for LR!)

I know 20 sounds high, but I really don't believe I am mistaken. Take a look at the current masthead:
http://lawreview.wustl.edu/membership/current-masthead/

Only the "Staff Editors" are 2Ls. And there are 40-ish of them. That means that including 3Ls, it is closer to an 80-90 membership. And yes, only 27, give or take, actually make it on because of grades. After transfers, I would say there are at least 20 spots available for LR beyond the top 10%.

Give or take, my guess is that 4-7 of the top 10% transfer out. I'm not actually willing to say that all of our transfers are in the top 10%, because it's just not true. We have two people who went to UCLA/USC/Vandy who were only a bit above the median. And there's a person who was in the 20% range that went to UVA/NW/Duke/Penn. That said, the majority of people that leave WUSTL do so for places like NYU, Chicago, and Stanford. There are about 10 or so transfers out annually. Very few find it worthwhile to leave their spot in the top 10% for anything less than CCN. And many don't even leave for that.

People may not like to hear this, but as much as it helps, LR by no means signifies that one was in the top 10%. That's just not an assumption that one can make at WUSTL. Maybe half of LR is, but that's about what it is.

Btw, good luck to Romo and Stephanie13 with write-on!! Y'all are gonna do great

I seem to recall hearing earlier in the year that 10% of the class grades on to law review and 10% writes on. After transfers that'd be about the right number, and the 10% that write on might be 10% of write on participants rather than of the entire class (I assume there'll be at least a few people who don't/can't do it for some reason).