Law Grads: Did you regret turning down an Ivy? Forum

[A. Nony Mouse]

If you're on a repayment plan like REPAYE and you have no income, you don't have any payments. (that's based on income, not based on whether you're in public service or not.)

[sflyr2016]

This is getting silly

[rpupkin]

This is getting silly

getting?

[cavalier1138]

I am also considering applying to NYU as a transfer student. Would my odds be better as a transfer or regular applicant? I know I would not be eligible for any scholarship money as a transfer which would really suck, but I don't really want to waste a year either...

Just when I thought it couldn't get any more ridiculous...

No. Do not do that. Do not plan on transferring. You cannot assume that you will have a good enough GPA to be a strong transfer candidate. It's easier to retake the LSAT and put together a stronger application, and it's not a "waste" of a year to take those steps if you genuinely wanted different results.

[Danny Mothers]

Transferring would be so stupid because you would end up paying sticker at NYU for two years and end up with more debt than if you had just went to Cornell to begin with. Isn't your whole thing that you're super debt averse?

Meanwhile if you can do well enough at dozo to transfer to NYU you could probably do well enough at Cornell to get the same outcome you would as an NYU transfer.

[quiver]

As a former transfer:

I am also considering applying to NYU as a transfer student. Would my odds be better as a transfer or regular applicant? I know I would not be eligible for any scholarship money as a transfer which would really suck, but I don't really want to waste a year either...

Just when I thought it couldn't get any more ridiculous...

No. Do not do that. Do not plan on transferring. You cannot assume that you will have a good enough GPA to be a strong transfer candidate. It's easier to retake the LSAT and put together a stronger application, and it's not a "waste" of a year to take those steps if you genuinely wanted different results.

Agreed.

Transferring would be so stupid because you would end up paying sticker at NYU for two years and end up with more debt than if you had just went to Cornell to begin with. Isn't your whole thing that you're super debt averse?

Meanwhile if you can do well enough at dozo to transfer to NYU you could probably do well enough at Cornell to get the same outcome you would as an NYU transfer.

And agreed.

Please just go to Cornell.

[jingosaur]

I didn't even know Penn State was considered an Ivy

It is. The whole Sandusky thing tarnished the brand quite a bit though.

Hopefully Joe Paterno can bring them back to grace. How's he doing these days?

[silverdoe91]

Transferring would be so stupid because you would end up paying sticker at NYU for two years and end up with more debt than if you had just went to Cornell to begin with. Isn't your whole thing that you're super debt averse?

I am debt averse. But my dream is to do civil rights work & anti-discrimination cases, so a school that allows me to do that kind of work during school and then after I graduate, might be worth paying for. Does Cornell have the same reputation for allowing students & graduates to practice civil rights/anti-discrimination law? Because based on their curriculum, they don't offer much in terms of that, and based on job statistics no one from Cornell seems to go into that field.

[silverdoe91]

just go to cornell jesus christ

They don't have a lot of the classes I want, they're really removed from NYC where I can make a lot of connections, and its super expensive compared to my other options. Literally the only reason why I would go there right now is because it's an Ivy and has some prestige. But that seems like a huge trade off considering they don't even have a lot of what I want (classes, clinics, access to internships during school for more than just one semester and at a variety of different legal institutions.)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind...

I did, but everyone keeps telling me that if I turn down an Ivy I'll regret it, so I want to see if people who have turned down Ivies really felt that way in the long run.

[silverdoe91]

No one gives a shit about "Ivy" for law schools.

T14 v. T1 is a different discussion.

Okay so out of my choices, and considering my goals, should I go with Cornell or Fordham? Fordham would be about 1/3 the price, plus its in the city so I can take a lot of internships and make lots of connections. Also, they seem to have a more public service/civil rights bent than Cornell, at least based on their course and clinical offerings.

[Barack O'Drama]

No one gives a shit about "Ivy" for law schools.

T14 v. T1 is a different discussion.

Okay so out of my choices, and considering my goals, should I go with Cornell or Fordham? Fordham would be about 1/3 the price, plus its in the city so I can take a lot of internships and make lots of connections. Also, they seem to have a more public service/civil rights bent than Cornell, at least based on their course and clinical offerings.

While I still think Fordham is better than 'Dozo, I still think Cornell with your scholly will be better. Even better advice is to retake the LSAT and put together and application you don't regret. I'm guessing you're around my age (22-23) and applied this cycle and don't have many good options. Cornell was the highest rank school you got into, which is definitely a great Law school. But, no matter what people are telling you, you are finding every reason why a lower ranked school may be better. You being debt-averse is a good thing, but as it stands now I think you should retake. If you got into Cornell your LSAT must have been in the mid 160s (unless you're a URM, but still would have to be close) and you must also have a decent GPA. Just retake, hit the high-160s/170s and reapply. You can get NYU, which is where you seem to truly want to go. Forget about Ivy vs. non-Ivy and focus on getting better options that will help you gain employment in the fields you're interested in. If Fordham was a full-ride my opinion may change. They're stingy with aid though.

I'm also confused because you mentioned interest in entertainment law that seems to have changed to into-descrimination law? is that correct?

Also, what are your stats?

tl;dr Either go to Cornell or retake and apply to schools you actually want to go to. Don't settle on perhaps the biggest and most important decision of your life.

[cavalier1138]

just go to cornell jesus christ

They don't have a lot of the classes I want, they're really removed from NYC where I can make a lot of connections, and its super expensive compared to my other options. Literally the only reason why I would go there right now is because it's an Ivy and has some prestige. But that seems like a huge trade off considering they don't even have a lot of what I want (classes, clinics, access to internships during school for more than just one semester and at a variety of different legal institutions.)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind...

I did, but everyone keeps telling me that if I turn down an Ivy I'll regret it, so I want to see if people who have turned down Ivies really felt that way in the long run.

Actually, the more exact version of what you're being told is that if you turn down a half-ride at Cornell to go to a second or third-tier school in New York, you'll regret it. Especially if you want to go into high-level PI.

But all this is a moot point, since your deposit deadlines must have passed by now. So either you listened to literally every single person who provided feedback, or you decided that you're going to be the exception that proves the rule.

[SFSpartan]

No one gives a shit about "Ivy" for law schools.

T14 v. T1 is a different discussion.

Okay so out of my choices, and considering my goals, should I go with Cornell or Fordham? Fordham would be about 1/3 the price, plus its in the city so I can take a lot of internships and make lots of connections. Also, they seem to have a more public service/civil rights bent than Cornell, at least based on their course and clinical offerings.

As everyone else has been telling you, you should without question go to Cornell. But you seem to have made up your mind, so do what you want and report back in 3 years.

My answer (and likely the answers of other posters) has literally 0 to do with the fact that Cornell is an Ivy League school. The advice on this board is completely motivated by the fact that Cornell is a better school. Suppose the circumstances were different, and you wanted to be in DC post-LS and were choosing between UVA and Catholic (in this fantasy world, you didn't get into GULC). We would tell you to go to UVA because it is clearly the better school. So it has nothing to do with Cornell being an Ivy and everything to do with Cornell having objectively better employment #s.

[kcdc1]

I am debt averse. But my dream is to do civil rights work & anti-discrimination cases, so a school that allows me to do that kind of work during school and then after I graduate, might be worth paying for. Does Cornell have the same reputation for allowing students & graduates to practice civil rights/anti-discrimination law? Because based on their curriculum, they don't offer much in terms of that, and based on job statistics no one from Cornell seems to go into that field.

You seem to be confused about how the world of law school prestige works. Here's a quick primer.

#1. Lawyers are prestige-obsessed. Never underestimate prestige obsession in the legal field.
#2. Nobody cares about the education or training that law schools provide. General prestige is all that matters.
#3. When selecting your school, you should not weigh its reputation or curricular offerings in any particular field. Employers don't care, so you should not care.
#4. T14 prestige is a big deal. Unreasonably so.
#5. Connections and networking do matter. So when you enroll at Cornell, make an effort to get involved with whatever clinic or student group or alumni network is related to your interests. These will exist. They exist at every school.

[silverdoe91]

No one gives a shit about "Ivy" for law schools.

T14 v. T1 is a different discussion.

Okay so out of my choices, and considering my goals, should I go with Cornell or Fordham? Fordham would be about 1/3 the price, plus its in the city so I can take a lot of internships and make lots of connections. Also, they seem to have a more public service/civil rights bent than Cornell, at least based on their course and clinical offerings.

While I still think Fordham is better than 'Dozo, I still think Cornell with your scholly will be better. Even better advice is to retake the LSAT and put together and application you don't regret. I'm guessing you're around my age (22-23) and applied this cycle and don't have many good options. Cornell was the highest rank school you got into, which is definitely a great Law school. But, no matter what people are telling you, you are finding every reason why a lower ranked school may be better. You being debt-averse is a good thing, but as it stands now I think you should retake. If you got into Cornell your LSAT must have been in the mid 160s (unless you're a URM, but still would have to be close) and you must also have a decent GPA. Just retake, hit the high-160s/170s and reapply. You can get NYU, which is where you seem to truly want to go. Forget about Ivy vs. non-Ivy and focus on getting better options that will help you gain employment in the fields you're interested in. If Fordham was a full-ride my opinion may change. They're stingy with aid though.

I'm also confused because you mentioned interest in entertainment law that seems to have changed to into-descrimination law? is that correct?

Also, what are your stats?

tl;dr Either go to Cornell or retake and apply to schools you actually want to go to. Don't settle on perhaps the biggest and most important decision of your life.

My stats are 167 and 3.76.

I can't get a full ride to Fordham even if I retake, because they said the most they give anyone is 40k (what they gave me.)

Ideally, I'd love to go into civil rights or policy law, especially anti-discrimination law, but I also wouldn't mind taking some classes in entertainment or intellectual property law and trying it out in a clinic or internship. I'm 25 right now so I feel like taking another year off would be pushing it. :/

[silverdoe91]

just go to cornell jesus christ

They don't have a lot of the classes I want, they're really removed from NYC where I can make a lot of connections, and its super expensive compared to my other options. Literally the only reason why I would go there right now is because it's an Ivy and has some prestige. But that seems like a huge trade off considering they don't even have a lot of what I want (classes, clinics, access to internships during school for more than just one semester and at a variety of different legal institutions.)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind...

I did, but everyone keeps telling me that if I turn down an Ivy I'll regret it, so I want to see if people who have turned down Ivies really felt that way in the long run.

Actually, the more exact version of what you're being told is that if you turn down a half-ride at Cornell to go to a second or third-tier school in New York, you'll regret it. Especially if you want to go into high-level PI.

But all this is a moot point, since your deposit deadlines must have passed by now. So either you listened to literally every single person who provided feedback, or you decided that you're going to be the exception that proves the rule.

Fordham is 1st tier though?

I was given extensions.

[silverdoe91]

No one gives a shit about "Ivy" for law schools.

T14 v. T1 is a different discussion.

Okay so out of my choices, and considering my goals, should I go with Cornell or Fordham? Fordham would be about 1/3 the price, plus its in the city so I can take a lot of internships and make lots of connections. Also, they seem to have a more public service/civil rights bent than Cornell, at least based on their course and clinical offerings.

As everyone else has been telling you, you should without question go to Cornell. But you seem to have made up your mind, so do what you want and report back in 3 years.

My answer (and likely the answers of other posters) has literally 0 to do with the fact that Cornell is an Ivy League school. The advice on this board is completely motivated by the fact that Cornell is a better school. Suppose the circumstances were different, and you wanted to be in DC post-LS and were choosing between UVA and Catholic (in this fantasy world, you didn't get into GULC). We would tell you to go to UVA because it is clearly the better school. So it has nothing to do with Cornell being an Ivy and everything to do with Cornell having objectively better employment #s.

It might be a better school when it comes to BigLaw, but seeing as how it does not have a very large course offering in other fields of law, I fail to see how it would be better for those fields.

[jbagelboy]

just go to cornell jesus christ

They don't have a lot of the classes I want, they're really removed from NYC where I can make a lot of connections, and its super expensive compared to my other options. Literally the only reason why I would go there right now is because it's an Ivy and has some prestige. But that seems like a huge trade off considering they don't even have a lot of what I want (classes, clinics, access to internships during school for more than just one semester and at a variety of different legal institutions.)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind...

I did, but everyone keeps telling me that if I turn down an Ivy I'll regret it, so I want to see if people who have turned down Ivies really felt that way in the long run.

Actually, the more exact version of what you're being told is that if you turn down a half-ride at Cornell to go to a second or third-tier school in New York, you'll regret it. Especially if you want to go into high-level PI.

But all this is a moot point, since your deposit deadlines must have passed by now. So either you listened to literally every single person who provided feedback, or you decided that you're going to be the exception that proves the rule.

Fordham is 1st tier though?

I was given extensions.

no, fordham is not first tier.

Cornell is first tier, the others are second or third.

[silverdoe91]

I am debt averse. But my dream is to do civil rights work & anti-discrimination cases, so a school that allows me to do that kind of work during school and then after I graduate, might be worth paying for. Does Cornell have the same reputation for allowing students & graduates to practice civil rights/anti-discrimination law? Because based on their curriculum, they don't offer much in terms of that, and based on job statistics no one from Cornell seems to go into that field.

You seem to be confused about how the world of law school prestige works. Here's a quick primer.

#1. Lawyers are prestige-obsessed. Never underestimate prestige obsession in the legal field.
#2. Nobody cares about the education or training that law schools provide. General prestige is all that matters.
#3. When selecting your school, you should not weigh its reputation or curricular offerings in any particular field. Employers don't care, so you should not care.
#4. T14 prestige is a big deal. Unreasonably so.
#5. Connections and networking do matter. So when you enroll at Cornell, make an effort to get involved with whatever clinic or student group or alumni network is related to your interests. These will exist. They exist at every school.

I heard prestige only matters based on the field? Unless you're doing BigLaw, I've been told (and seen) that it is better to save your $$ and just do lots of internships in the field you want to work in, and gain experience & develop connections that way. I work in the legal department at Conde Nast right now and all of the attorneys, with the exception of one who went to UCLA, went to Cardozo, Brooklyn, or New York Law School. They basically just racked up experience in those fields that made them eligible for those jobs, perhaps more eligible than somebody who went to a higher ranked school but gained no experience working in that field either because their school did not have adequate course/clinical offerings or because the location did not allow them to do internships in entertainment law. One of the attorneys who went to Cardozo interned at Marvel for 6 months over the summer & while in school; you don't see any Cornell students doing that.

[silverdoe91]

just go to cornell jesus christ

They don't have a lot of the classes I want, they're really removed from NYC where I can make a lot of connections, and its super expensive compared to my other options. Literally the only reason why I would go there right now is because it's an Ivy and has some prestige. But that seems like a huge trade off considering they don't even have a lot of what I want (classes, clinics, access to internships during school for more than just one semester and at a variety of different legal institutions.)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind...

I did, but everyone keeps telling me that if I turn down an Ivy I'll regret it, so I want to see if people who have turned down Ivies really felt that way in the long run.

Actually, the more exact version of what you're being told is that if you turn down a half-ride at Cornell to go to a second or third-tier school in New York, you'll regret it. Especially if you want to go into high-level PI.

But all this is a moot point, since your deposit deadlines must have passed by now. So either you listened to literally every single person who provided feedback, or you decided that you're going to be the exception that proves the rule.

Fordham is 1st tier though?

I was given extensions.

no, fordham is not first tier.

Cornell is first tier, the others are second or third.

So first tier is no longer Top50? When did this change?

[JenDarby]

jbagel, I won't go too far to bat for Fordham, but yes it is traditionally considered first tier (top 50). You can say its shitty and thats fine, its still not second tier.

[jbagelboy]

jbagel, I won't go too far to bat for Fordham, but yes it is traditionally considered first tier (top 50). You can say its shitty and thats fine, its still not second tier.

Top 50 of what? Us news?

I'm not talking about US news and the masturbatory line-drawing exercises beloved by those eunuch sophists. In the legal world its not a first tier school compared to Cornell. I'm not actually saying it's shitty, there are non-elite law schools that do well by their students and still serve an important social purpose.

[silverdoe91]

jbagel, I won't go too far to bat for Fordham, but yes it is traditionally considered first tier (top 50). You can say its shitty and thats fine, its still not second tier.

What would you say is "shitty" about it? I'd like to know before I decide to take out loans for it, lol.

[jbagelboy]

jbagel, I won't go too far to bat for Fordham, but yes it is traditionally considered first tier (top 50). You can say its shitty and thats fine, its still not second tier.

What would you say is "shitty" about it? I'd like to know before I decide to take out loans for it, lol.

It would be a huge mistake for you to attend Fordham. You should be taking out loans for Cornell, if anything. It's different to understand why you are still considering this.

[silverdoe91]

jbagel, I won't go too far to bat for Fordham, but yes it is traditionally considered first tier (top 50). You can say its shitty and thats fine, its still not second tier.

What would you say is "shitty" about it? I'd like to know before I decide to take out loans for it, lol.

It would be a huge mistake for you to attend Fordham. You should be taking out loans for Cornell, if anything. It's different to understand why you are still considering this.

For Fordham I'd take out 1/3 the loans as for Cornell, they have more comprehensive course offerings so I can learn about Entertainment Law and Civil Rights if I so choose, and it's in the city so I have a wider range of organizations where I can intern, not just during the summer but every semester during my 2L and 3L if I want to. What Cardozo has is field clinics which actually put you in the office where you work; they even have a field clinic at the NY Attorney General's office in Manhattan. So to brush that off and say it's nothing is really a mistake IMO, because at Cornell, at most I can do 2 internships over the summer, and one externship. I can do a lot more and gain way more experience & connections by staying in the city.