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[Cogburn87]

lol what i said is not a boomerism. "hard work" "pull up your bootstraps" "quit being entitled" would be more apt

hmm

[FSK]

Pratnership material = no respect for own life + mild sociopathy + can write OK

[mvp99]

I feel like 90% of current biglaw associates who know they will have to leave won't admit that they aren't partner material and just say "oh the hours suck, i hate my life, pay isn't worth it, i don't want to be partner, etc" as a way to justify their situation. But being partnership material doesn't entail much more than being good at firm politics and/or having leverage (via book of business), doesn't reflect on your talent as a lawyer.

50% is whether they actually need you at the time, if not bad luck counsel

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Does counsel have to bring in business? If not, it doesn't seem like a bad gig at all. I'd be fine with 500K/year instead of 2.5M...

[rpupkin]

Does counsel have to bring in business? If not, it doesn't seem like a bad gig at all. I'd be fine with 500K/year instead of 2.5M...

There are different types of "of counsels." The type you're thinking of is a senior associate who is kept on despite not making partner. No, those folks aren't expected to bring in business. But they also don't make $500K. You're basically a permanent senior associate (but without the pressure of worrying about making partner).

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Well (some) V5s' compensation for 8th years is 285K/year + 110K bonus, which is about 400K. I'd assume counsel, which requires a few more years, would pay a bit more. Even if it doesn't, it doesn't sound like a bad by any metric (assuming no bringing in of business).

[totesTheGoat]

it doesn't sound like a bad by any metric (assuming no bringing in of business).

Think about what your billing rate would be as an 8th year, and then think about how many billable hours per year it would take to pay your salary. If your billing rate stayed low, you're gonna have to work 3000 hours billable to make a profit for the firm. If your billing rate is slightly less than a partner in the same class, you're gonna have so much stress trying to keep from blowing the clients' budgets. Either you're gonna have to do 3000 hours billable just to make up for the fact that 800 of it will be written off, or you're gonna have to work very quickly on a billion different projects because you can only bill 15 hours before blowing the budget.

[nealric]

Does counsel have to bring in business? If not, it doesn't seem like a bad gig at all. I'd be fine with 500K/year instead of 2.5M...

There are different types of "of counsels." The type you're thinking of is a senior associate who is kept on despite not making partner. No, those folks aren't expected to bring in business. But they also don't make $500K. You're basically a permanent senior associate (but without the pressure of worrying about making partner).

Except you aren't permanent. You will be the first to go if business dries up.

Answering the OP (flame though it may be): The short answer is that the system is built such that only a small fraction of incoming associates can make partner. It will create the conditions for them to leave one way or another.

The reasons they leave will be a mix of work-life issues, not liking the work, being pushed out, relocating, etc. The primary catalyst for me leaving was relocation. But the reason I chose to go in-house instead of another biglaw job was ultimately not because biglaw was THAT miserable, but because it simply wasn't the way I wanted to live the rest of my working life. You area always on in biglaw. Every hour you relax is an hour you could be billing, and if you aren't billing it now, you are probably going to pay later. In corporate life, I have a set of things I need to accomplish. Once I accomplish those things, I can turn off. It's much better for my mental well-being.

[Desert Fox]

[AReasonableMan]

Does counsel have to bring in business? If not, it doesn't seem like a bad gig at all. I'd be fine with 500K/year instead of 2.5M...

There are different types of "of counsels." The type you're thinking of is a senior associate who is kept on despite not making partner. No, those folks aren't expected to bring in business. But they also don't make $500K. You're basically a permanent senior associate (but without the pressure of worrying about making partner).

Except you aren't permanent. You will be the first to go if business dries up.

And you have to worry about every new senior associate taking your job.

A lot of them develop specialized skills that ultimately lead to great exit options, including becoming partners elsewhere.

[Desert Fox]

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