If I want HYSffIs this a good UG college list if I want HYS? Forum

[fredfred]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

[AdamDeMamp]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

False.

1. Washington & Lee
2. Dickinson
3. Rutgers
4. Washington College
5. Haverford

[lacrossebrother]

Trebekismyhero
I never said I was going to PHC for sure. It is at the top of my list. As far as the above advice goes, people who make fun of me for going to PHC are fools. I don't care what fools think. I am in state for UVA, but it is way too large for me. I am looking into Gettysburg and Trinity(CT)

Nah dude. Here's some insight. People who have graduated from college are much better to look quickly at other colleges and see what they have to offer and make accurate snap judgments about them. You learn what really matters about a school only by going to school. People can only be intimately familiar with their own academic programs, but it's not hard to figure out what other programs are about after having done a program. It's next to impossible prior to then though.

Even more importantly, grad students/grad alums like my self and others on this board meet a shit ton of people from a shit ton of different schools. You begin to notice patterns. I can usually tell if someone went to Duke or Brown for instance. Colleges shape people. It's just the way it is. You get shaped by where you go AND if you go to a fucking great school, that's immediate respect for you. AND however, if you go to fucking shitty no name school, then that's immediate disrespect. And while a HYS law degree would certainly counteract that, it's gonna be tough. Saying, "Nice to meet you. I went to Harvard Law and Winford College for undergrad" is not quite as bad as introducing yourself as, "Nice to meet you, I went to Harvard Law and you're a fatty," --but it's bad. Maybe more like, "Nice to meet you, I went to Harvard Law, and this is a pretty good party but I don't like your wine."

[trebekismyhero]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

False.

1. Washington & Lee
2. Dickinson
3. Rutgers
4. Washington College
5. Haverford

Washington & Lee and Rutgers were founded prior to the revolution. Washington College is correct based on its charter.

[JonTheMandamus]

Trebekismyhero
I never said I was going to PHC for sure. It is at the top of my list. As far as the above advice goes, people who make fun of me for going to PHC are fools. I don't care what fools think. I am in state for UVA, but it is way too large for me. I am looking into Gettysburg and Trinity(CT)

Nah dude. Here's some insight. People who have graduated from college are much better to look quickly at other colleges and see what they have to offer and make accurate snap judgments about them. You learn what really matters about a school only by going to school. People can only be intimately familiar with their own academic programs, but it's not hard to figure out what other programs are about after having done a program. It's next to impossible prior to then though.

Even more importantly, grad students/grad alums like my self and others on this board meet a shit ton of people from a shit ton of different schools. You begin to notice patterns. I can usually tell if someone went to Duke or Brown for instance. Colleges shape people. It's just the way it is. You get shaped by where you go AND if you go to a fucking great school, that's immediate respect for you. AND however, if you go to fucking shitty no name school, then that's immediate disrespect. And while a HYS law degree would certainly counteract that, it's gonna be tough. Saying, "Nice to meet you. I went to Harvard Law and Winford College for undergrad" is not quite as bad as introducing yourself as, "Nice to meet you, I went to Harvard Law and you're a fatty," --but it's bad. Maybe more like, "Nice to meet you, I went to Harvard Law, and this is a pretty good party but I don't like your wine."

well played on the fatty comment. so random im still laughing

[cws277]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

False.

1. Washington & Lee
2. Dickinson
3. Rutgers
4. Washington College
5. Haverford

Washington & Lee and Rutgers were founded prior to the revolution. Washington College is correct based on its charter.

Dickinson was the first college founded after the signing of the Treaty of Paris. Really a matter of semantics. I like this random trivia side-convo in this garbage fire thread.

[fredfred]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

False.

1. Washington & Lee
2. Dickinson
3. Rutgers
4. Washington College
5. Haverford

Washington & Lee and Rutgers were founded prior to the revolution. Washington College is correct based on its charter.

You sir are correct. Washington College was the first one founded after the revolution. Dickinson was founded a year later. Rutgers was pre-1782. Just an interesting note that the first "truly" American college was Washington College.

Edit: not a matter of semantics. Washington was chartered in 1782, Dickinson in 1783.

[AdamDeMamp]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

False.

1. Washington & Lee
2. Dickinson
3. Rutgers
4. Washington College
5. Haverford

Washington & Lee and Rutgers were founded prior to the revolution. Washington College is correct based on its charter.

Dickinson was the first college founded after the signing of the Treaty of Paris. Really a matter of semantics. I like this random trivia side-convo in this garbage fire thread.

I don't really care what was first, I just know Rutgers was third

[JonTheMandamus]

Hampen-Sydney isnt bad if you don't mind the all guys thing. One of the oldest colleges in the USA. We can play a TLS game- what is the oldest truly American college/university? As in first one founded after the revolution? I saw this on NYT the other day and was surprising.

Dickinson College

False. Washington college in Maryland. Random fact of the day.

False.

1. Washington & Lee
2. Dickinson
3. Rutgers
4. Washington College
5. Haverford

Washington & Lee and Rutgers were founded prior to the revolution. Washington College is correct based on its charter.

Dickinson was the first college founded after the signing of the Treaty of Paris. Really a matter of semantics. I like this random trivia side-convo in this garbage fire thread.

I don't really care what was first, I just know Rutgers was third

It's not about winning. It's about sending a message.

[isuperserial]

As someone who knows all those schools due to mock trial; Patrick Henry is trash, Hillsdale is begrudgingly respected by some.

Frankly I wouldn't touch either. And unless you're the second coming of Ronan Farrow, be careful about thinking you know everything.

[abl]

lol @ mock trial.

I went to an undergrad that I'm betting PHC has bragged about beating in mock trial at some point in its history, and I was on our mock trial team for a year. At least in the year that I did it, most people on our team were effectively winging it. There was no audition for the team, no practicing or coaching (professional or otherwise), and virtually no preparation. We were a student-run EC full of vaguely-committed students who had (mostly) done mock trial in high school and thought college mock trial sounded like fun, but didn't really have the time to do it right. I don't recall ever going up against PHC, but we did go up against a number of less prestigious colleges where mock trial was a for-credit class and the teams had coaches and had clearly put countless hours into getting things as perfect as possible. And it showed -- those teams often beat us. Mock trial is more about performing--where practice and coaching count tons--than it is about being smart or quick on your feet or well educated. (Incidentally, I'm not sure this is all that different from real trial.) I'd fully expect the cream of the crop at most schools in the country, with enough prep work and coaching, to be competitive with partially-engaged average-to-above average students at Harvard in something as performance-based as mock trial.

I don't doubt that some elite schools have mock trial teams that actually try (although I doubt to the extent of PHC), but I wouldn't put too much stock in a school's mock trial national ranking in assessing the quality of that school (no more than I would put stock in a law school's record in law school mock trial / moot court competitions--see, e.g., HYS). I don't know much about PHC, but it's a red flag when a school at any level picks out one very specific program as an example of its excellence and hammers it over and over again. Most schools, no matter how mediocre, can find some measure on which they excel. The schools that are actually great don't generally just talk about their world class program in [insert niche subject area here] -- because breadth is just as if not more important than depth in undergraduate education (and because the vast majority of students at these schools won't actually study that niche subject area). Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, etc are great in large part because just about all of the classes and programs at these schools are great.

Finally, I've worked in both very liberal and very conservative positions (OP, I am a practicing lawyer), and I have a lot of respect for folks on both sides of the aisle. But I would be very nervous to hire someone who looks like they haven't been exposed to different viewpoints (and I've seen several people--on both ends of the political spectrum--get hired and flop in jobs for this reason). There's nothing foolish about this hesitancy: critical thinking and empathy are two of the most important traits for every position that I've ever worked in and/or hired for, and those are skills that are generally developed through conversations with those who are different from yourself. I would be very concerned that even if PHC (or some of the other ultra-conservative schools on this list) does provide the technical level of education that the OP appears to believe that it does, that attending one of these schools would come with a huge opportunity cost in these sorts of areas. You're probably not going to make a very good lawyer if you graduate from undergrad having never had your beliefs seriously challenged. I know PHC likely feels like a comfortable environment, but I'd strongly encourage the OP to challenge his or herself and go somewhere different, where (s)he will have many opportunities to learn from those who may not share the OP's life experiences or beliefs.

PS, OP, I went to one of HYS and am pretty sure that we didn't have anyone from PHC (or any of the other schools on your list) in my class. If I'm wrong and there was a student (or even two), there were certainly far, far more students from schools that PHC would like to consider its peers -- Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, etc.

[JDJohnP21]

Isuperserial
You misread my post. I said Moot Court NOT Mock Trial. There is a big difference.

[LadyProspero]

Lol this thread. The number of times I see people coming to TLS to ask for advice and then getting butthurt when it isn't what they wanted to hear... Never ceases to amaze me.

P.S. To echo what has already been said, it doesn't matter where you go to undergrad strictly from an HYS perspective. Id hate constantly being surrounded by people the same as myself though, no matter what side of the spectrum you're on. Doesn't exactly encourage personal growth.

[zhenders]

OP, you should definitely go to one of the schools on your list. Infinitely more important than anything else is in life is that the viewpoints you hold And were raised with are protected and kept from hard questioning as much as possible. After all, think about all of the crap you'd have to pretend to believe in if you went elsewhere, just to appease some philosophy teacher? I can't speak for the rest of TLS, but at my undergrad, it seemed like every other professor was trying to convince me that humans have been on Earth for more than 10,000 years (which clearly is crap, as proved by the discovery of Noah's Ark in Turkey a few years back). Go to PHC and rest knowing that you won't have to live through the script of "God is not Dead." I'm sure I read an interview somewhere where Ted Cruz mentions that if PHC had been around when he was an undergrad, he would have attended. Which should settle things for all of the h8ers here on TTTLS.

[TheSpanishMain]

As someone who knows all those schools due to mock trial; Patrick Henry is trash, Hillsdale is begrudgingly respected by some.

Is PHC trash? I have no dog in this fight (went to Big State U years ago) but the few people I know from PHC have generally been pretty sharp. I always thought it was snickered at because of it's politics, not because of its academics.

[doublehoohopeful]

go to a normal fucking school like UVA

UVA alum here, we sure as hell don't want him.

[yomisterd]

two PHC folks currently at HLS are both on law review.

that said, OP sounds like an insufferable twat. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[legit]

HYS and any law school doesn't give a sh*t about your UG. You could go to Southeast Kansas State or whatever, but if you get a 4.0 and a 180, they'll admit you. Or you could go to Princeton and get a 2.9 and a 164 and you'll get dinged.

Now going to a really elite UG is a soft and might be a tie breaker type thing, but despite your previous post none of the schools you mention would probably be considered elite enough to give you a boost. Not being elitist, just realistic. There are probably only a handful of schools that give you a boost. Pick your UG based on where you want to be for four years and not whether it will look good to HYS.

This. Also, maybe OP is following the money?

What if you change your mind and do not want to be a lawyer (or need more time for the LSAT)? Please check out where students get jobs from your college.

Schools like Princeton or UVA have big alumni/resources = opportunities.

[abl]

Isuperserial
You misread my post. I said Moot Court NOT Mock Trial. There is a big difference.

There's no meaningful difference for the point that I was making.

[basedvulpes]

Post removed.

[jbagelboy]

PS, OP, I went to one of HYS and am pretty sure that we didn't have anyone from PHC (or any of the other schools on your list) in my class. If I'm wrong and there was a student (or even two), there were certainly far, far more students from schools that PHC would like to consider its peers -- Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, etc.

If Patrick Henry College considers the WASP schools its peers, it's in need of dire institutional self-reflection

(that and the whole christian/neocon thing)

[Mack.Hambleton]

I'm pretty sure its peers are liberty university and bob jones university

[isuperserial]

lol @ mock trial.

I went to an undergrad that I'm betting PHC has bragged about beating in mock trial at some point in its history, and I was on our mock trial team for a year. At least in the year that I did it, most people on our team were effectively winging it. There was no audition for the team, no practicing or coaching (professional or otherwise), and virtually no preparation. We were a student-run EC full of vaguely-committed students who had (mostly) done mock trial in high school and thought college mock trial sounded like fun, but didn't really have the time to do it right. I don't recall ever going up against PHC, but we did go up against a number of less prestigious colleges where mock trial was a for-credit class and the teams had coaches and had clearly put countless hours into getting things as perfect as possible. And it showed -- those teams often beat us. Mock trial is more about performing--where practice and coaching count tons--than it is about being smart or quick on your feet or well educated. (Incidentally, I'm not sure this is all that different from real trial.) I'd fully expect the cream of the crop at most schools in the country, with enough prep work and coaching, to be competitive with partially-engaged average-to-above average students at Harvard in something as performance-based as mock trial.

I'm not saying PHC is bad because it's mock trial team is bad, their mock trial team is far above average. That's just how I'm familiar with the college.

Isuperserial
You misread my post. I said Moot Court NOT Mock Trial. There is a big difference.

Obviously. As I said above, mock trial is just how I'm familiar with the college. They could have the best team in either category and it wouldn't matter.

Is PHC trash? I have no dog in this fight (went to Big State U years ago) but the few people I know from PHC have generally been pretty sharp. I always thought it was snickered at because of it's politics, not because of its academics.

Maybe you've been lucky with who you've met from PHC, or I've been unlucky. At any rate, there are smart people that come from every school, even bad ones. And the politics is the school, they primarily teach "government" alongside some other liberal arts subjects. Science and math are nowhere to be found on that campus. Hillsdale seems to have a reputation of academic rigor, and you have the luxury of existing in an environment where more than a dozen subjects are taught.

[chuckbass]

As someone who knows all those schools due to mock trial; Patrick Henry is trash, Hillsdale is begrudgingly respected by some.

Is PHC trash? I have no dog in this fight (went to Big State U years ago) but the few people I know from PHC have generally been pretty sharp. I always thought it was snickered at because of it's politics, not because of its academics.

I mean, 1280 SAT average isn't trash, but it's not elite like OP is claiming.

[jbagelboy]

As someone who knows all those schools due to mock trial; Patrick Henry is trash, Hillsdale is begrudgingly respected by some.

Is PHC trash? I have no dog in this fight (went to Big State U years ago) but the few people I know from PHC have generally been pretty sharp. I always thought it was snickered at because of it's politics, not because of its academics.

I mean, 1280 SAT average isn't trash, but it's not elite like OP is claiming.

1280/2400? Doesn't that mean you got most of the test wrong since you get like 600 pts for filing out your name?