How important is a professional appearance in law school? Forum

[Frothingslosh]

looks have little bearing on one's ability to produce good work.

Looks have quite a bit of bearing on one's ability to GET work in the first place. To argue about quality of work-product is putting the cart before the horse.

Looking professional should not mean conforming utterly to some backasswards notion of "white collar" competence. IMHO.

That is EXACTLY what it means.

[Tanicius]

I think about this differently. People who wear suits that fit them almost too well look ridiculous to me. They'll outgrow that suit in less than a month.

What? This is absurd. Are you really expanding so rapidly that you outgrow your clothes every month? I'd worry about exercising and being healthy more and other people's style less.

FFS I wasn't speaking literally.

[ymmv]

I think about this differently. People who wear suits that fit them almost too well look ridiculous to me. They'll outgrow that suit in less than a month.

What? This is absurd. Are you really expanding so rapidly that you outgrow your clothes every month? I'd worry about exercising and being healthy more and other people's style less.

FFS I wasn't speaking literally.

How long do you expect a suit to last? Bearing in mind that we are talking about 0Ls buying one or two bargain bin JAB shelfers on student loan non-income with the intent of future wardrobe expansion upon actual employment. I really don't understand the purpose of tailoring with "I'll grow into it" specifications in this context.

[jchiles]

Are you really expanding so rapidly that you outgrow your clothes every month?

Around finals, mostly due to getting off a decent exercise schedule and going out for food rather than making stuff at home, I can say this was a legitimate concern of mine. Not outgrowing all of my dress clothes is a major reason I try to stay somewhat in shape.

[Power_of_Facing]

looks have little bearing on one's ability to produce good work.

Looks have quite a bit of bearing on one's ability to GET work in the first place. To argue about quality of work-product is putting the cart before the horse.

Looking professional should not mean conforming utterly to some backasswards notion of "white collar" competence. IMHO.

That is EXACTLY what it means.

Disagree.

That said, I am not advocating for the OP to disregard professional mores entirely. However, I also don't think he or she needs to make the wholesale changes to his or her appearance that some are suggesting are necessary for legal success/attaining clients.

This is especially true in Biglaw where you don't sweat client attraction at all until your rep is solidified (at least in part) based on your work.

[Tanicius]

I think about this differently. People who wear suits that fit them almost too well look ridiculous to me. They'll outgrow that suit in less than a month.

What? This is absurd. Are you really expanding so rapidly that you outgrow your clothes every month? I'd worry about exercising and being healthy more and other people's style less.

FFS I wasn't speaking literally.

How long do you expect a suit to last? Bearing in mind that we are talking about 0Ls buying one or two bargain bin JAB shelfers on student loan non-income with the intent of future wardrobe expansion upon actual employment. I really don't understand the purpose of tailoring with "I'll grow into it" specifications in this context.

Unless you're under 25+ you're probably gonna get at least a little bit taller and a little bit heavier (not necessarily fat -- muscle too). I'm 25 and I probably won't be done getting heavier for a few years still.

[Pokemon]

looks have little bearing on one's ability to produce good work.

Looks have quite a bit of bearing on one's ability to GET work in the first place. To argue about quality of work-product is putting the cart before the horse.

Looking professional should not mean conforming utterly to some backasswards notion of "white collar" competence. IMHO.

That is EXACTLY what it means.

Disagree.

That said, I am not advocating for the OP to disregard professional mores entirely. However, I also don't think he or she needs to make the wholesale changes to his or her appearance that some are suggesting are necessary for legal success/attaining clients.

This is especially true in Biglaw where you don't sweat client attraction at all until your rep is solidified (at least in part) based on your work.

What is this "I am a special snowflake" type stuff. It is this simple. If I am hiring someone, I cannot go through an arduous five year old process of figuring out the details of their personality and professional potential. I cannot sit there and be, but this metalhead might be a doc review genius.

Instead, I go by signals. Harvard: check. Good GPA: check. Talking ability: Check. So far so good. Looking like I wanted to look when I was a teenager: NOT COOL = no jerb. It tells me that this guy lacks common sense and social cues. That simple.

[DELG]

Why would anyone trying to get into a white collar professional field want to look like a rebellious teenager?

Because looking a certain way can be important to one's identity, and looks have little bearing on one's ability to produce good work.

Looking professional should not mean conforming utterly to some backasswards notion of "white collar" competence. IMHO.

Yeah looking a certain way can say have a certain identity you want to broadcast

So again, why would you want to broadcast "rebellious teenager"

I don't think it's so bad to do quirky things like bow ties or cowboy hats, but what OP describes comes off as juvenile to me

[Power_of_Facing]

looks have little bearing on one's ability to produce good work.

Looks have quite a bit of bearing on one's ability to GET work in the first place. To argue about quality of work-product is putting the cart before the horse.

Looking professional should not mean conforming utterly to some backasswards notion of "white collar" competence. IMHO.

That is EXACTLY what it means.

Disagree.

That said, I am not advocating for the OP to disregard professional mores entirely. However, I also don't think he or she needs to make the wholesale changes to his or her appearance that some are suggesting are necessary for legal success/attaining clients.

This is especially true in Biglaw where you don't sweat client attraction at all until your rep is solidified (at least in part) based on your work.

What is this "I am a special snowflake" type stuff. It is this simple. If I am hiring someone, I cannot go through an arduous five year old process of figuring out the details of their personality and professional potential. I cannot sit there and be, but this metalhead might be a doc review genius.

Instead, I go by signals. Harvard: check. Good GPA: check. Talking ability: Check. So far so good. Looking like I wanted to look when I was a teenager: NOT COOL = no jerb. It tells me that this guy lacks common sense and social cues. That simple.

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, and I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

[beachbum]

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you, might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

It might. But it won't.

[Power_of_Facing]

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you, might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

It might. But it won't.

I've experienced it, though, dawg.

[Tanicius]

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you, might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

Most law firms that hire law students aren't entrepreneurial businesses that want brilliant but quirky people. They just want smart people who are going to keep their head down, do what they're told without asking annoying questions, and leave after a few years. The bolded parts are largely harmful to your chances of getting hired by a corporate law firm. If you're being interviewed by Adam Raposa though, then yeah, I'd say go as quirky as you can.

[Power_of_Facing]

Also, the OP only asked about waist-length hair being a problem in interviews. A person can have long hair and not look like a rebellious juvenile delinquent. IMHO.

[John Everyman]

Why would anyone trying to get into a white collar professional field want to look like a rebellious teenager?

maybe he is gunning for BIGMOTORCYLELAW

Personal injury motorcycle law is huge where I live. In all the commercials a lawyer rides up on a bike with a goatee and talks about how they care about motorcycle riders, because they are motorcycle riders - not a small shop either. I vote big motorcycle law.

[Power_of_Facing]

Why would anyone trying to get into a white collar professional field want to look like a rebellious teenager?

maybe he is gunning for BIGMOTORCYLELAW

Personal injury motorcycle law is huge where I live. In all the commercials a lawyer rides up on a bike with a goatee and talks about how they care about motorcycle riders, because they are motorcycle riders - not a small shop either. I vote big motorcycle law.

Black Rebel Motorcycle Club.

[Tanicius]

Also, the OP only asked about waist-length hair being a problem in interviews. A person can have long hair and not look like a rebellious juvenile delinquent. IMHO.

Waist-length hair is most likely an auto-DQ at OCI.

[Pokemon]

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, and I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

Sure... take the guy with the interesting life experience who has visited every single country in the world, who was marine, or the guy who was a jazz or metal guitarist, or who spend 5 years in Paris over the K-JD who says I want to be a lawyer cause my father and grandpa were lawyers.

However, picking the guy who adopts a certain identity and then expresses that through his looks in a non-subtle way... to me that screams immaturity and "look at me, I am so special."

[Power_of_Facing]

Also, the OP only asked about waist-length hair being a problem in interviews. A person can have long hair and not look like a rebellious juvenile delinquent. IMHO.

Waist-length hire is most likely an auto-DQ at OCI.

Law firms don't hire dwarves? I kid, I kid.

[John Everyman]

Also, the OP only asked about waist-length hair being a problem in interviews. A person can have long hair and not look like a rebellious juvenile delinquent. IMHO.

Waist-length hire is most likely an auto-DQ at OCI.

Law firms don't hire little people?

FTFY

[kalvano]

I bet Brooks Brothers would custom-make a jacket with a Five Finger Death Punch label in it, or design in the lining. That would be awesome.

Wouldn't you want something far more metal? I vote for Gorguts.

Motorhead on one side, FFDP on the other lapel, and a full design of the "Metal Up Your Ass" cover (not "Kill 'Em All") on the back lining.

[Power_of_Facing]

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, and I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

Sure... take the guy with the interesting life experience who has visited every single country in the world, who was marine, or the guy who was a jazz or metal guitarist, or who spend 5 years in Paris over the K-JD who says I want to be a lawyer cause my father and grandpa were lawyers.

However, picking the guy who adopts a certain identity and then expresses that through his looks in a non-subtle way... to me that screams immaturity and "look at me, I am so special."

That could be your impression. But then maybe if after having a conversation you sense that your impression doesn't tell the whole story, who knows, you could conclude something else...

Maybe biglaw would be a better profession if more people broke from convention.

[BVest]

A person can have long hair and not look like a rebellious juvenile delinquent. IMHO.

But Jerry Spence isn't going through OCI.

[Power_of_Facing]

Also, the OP only asked about waist-length hair being a problem in interviews. A person can have long hair and not look like a rebellious juvenile delinquent. IMHO.

Waist-length hire is most likely an auto-DQ at OCI.

Law firms don't hire little people?

FTFY

Thanx!

[Pokemon]

Hell, man. You give me two candidates with roughly the same elite credentials and winning personalities, and I'm pulling for (and hiring) the less generic of the two.

Again, not saying OP can or should look like a teenager fresh out of Hot Topic, I'm just saying he or she doesn't need to shed every idiosyncratic feature of his or her identity to be hired. What screams "lack of common sense" to you might well say "adds diversity and possesses self confidence" to another.

Sure... take the guy with the interesting life experience who has visited every single country in the world, who was marine, or the guy who was a jazz or metal guitarist, or who spend 5 years in Paris over the K-JD who says I want to be a lawyer cause my father and grandpa were lawyers.

However, picking the guy who adopts a certain identity and then expresses that through his looks in a non-subtle way... to me that screams immaturity and "look at me, I am so special."

That could be your impression. But then maybe if after having a conversation you sense that your impression doesn't tell the whole story, who knows, you could conclude something else...

Maybe biglaw would be a better profession if more people broke from convention.

Looking at firm profiles, I am pretty sure biglaw is with me on this one. On the other hand, if you want to be a barista at an independent coffee place, then long hair is ideal.

[Power_of_Facing]

Looking at firm profiles, I am pretty sure biglaw is with me on this one. On the other hand, if you want to be a barista at an independent coffee place, then long hair is ideal.

We can change biglaw together. Let your hair grow long! Cause I want to be a barrister.