Is clerking overrated? Forum

[Nelson]

Where are all these people who "overvalue" clerkships?

[ph14]

Clerking probably should be thought of in conjunction with other credentials. Clerking by itself might be overrated, but an applicant who has checked a lot of boxes (law review, clerkship, top law school, top firm, publications, awards, etc.) is going to be more attractive.

[rayiner]

Where are all these people who "overvalue" clerkships?

Everyone who posts in "choosing a law school" and splits hairs about whether Chicago places better into clerkships than Duke and how much that's worth.

[09042014]

Where are all these people who "overvalue" clerkships?

Law review at any t14.

TLS employment forum/clerkship forum/choose a school forum.

That "guy" at every firm who LOVES talking about how glorious the clerkship in Western District of Egypt, Bum Fuck division was.

[Pokemon]

Something else to consider. If you are going to private practice, and you are paying sticker, clerking might be the wrong move because during your clerkship, your debt will balloon since you are most likely not able to make any meaningful payments.

If you want fed, or public service, then clerking might be a great option cause it counts towards your ten-year repayment thingy.

[beachbum]

Where are all these people who "overvalue" clerkships?

Law review at any t14.

TLS employment forum/clerkship forum/choose a school forum.

That "guy" at every firm who LOVES talking about how glorious the clerkship in Western District of Egypt, Bum Fuck division was.

Yeah, maybe things are different elsewhere, but it seemed to me the de facto attitude in law school was that clerking is an awesome thing to do and will be a big plus to your career.

[jbagelboy]

Where are all these people who "overvalue" clerkships?

Everyone who posts in "choosing a law school" and splits hairs about whether Chicago places better into clerkships than Duke and how much that's worth.

It seems pretty clear now that since outright rankings whoring became inappropriate and unattractive a couple years back on tls, "but I want to clerk / goals: clerkship" arose essentially as the signal phrases to replace it by cloaking facially bullshit prestige-obsession as a legitimate cost/benefit analysis.

0L's can get away with the same practices that the rational consensus shouted down by framing their blind reliance on the us news survey as an interest in 'clerking' or 'v10'. And since it nominally matched the phrase "target your goals," it was an accepted practice.

we need a new seachange

[Holly Golightly]

It's overrated, in the sense that law students care about it more than is warranted. Most people I know in C/O 2012 are going back to their 2L SA firms. But several used their clerkship to get a different job or change markets. There's a few specific areas where I think a clerkship can really help: 1) switching markets to where your clerkship is located; 2) getting a job at a litigation boutique; 3) getting a job in an appellate group; 4) getting another shot at academic recruiting.

That said, Holly is right in that it's a pretty neat job, though if you do big law first the pay-cut is hard to swallow. You really get to think about your cases and take time to perfect your writing. There's little time for that at a firm.

I think it can also be helpful for certain PI/gov jobs.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It's overrated, in the sense that law students care about it more than is warranted. Most people I know in C/O 2012 are going back to their 2L SA firms. But several used their clerkship to get a different job or change markets. There's a few specific areas where I think a clerkship can really help: 1) switching markets to where your clerkship is located; 2) getting a job at a litigation boutique; 3) getting a job in an appellate group; 4) getting another shot at academic recruiting.

That said, Holly is right in that it's a pretty neat job, though if you do big law first the pay-cut is hard to swallow. You really get to think about your cases and take time to perfect your writing. There's little time for that at a firm.

I think it can also be helpful for certain PI/gov jobs.

I wouldn't have my job without clerking (it was an express requirement for applying).

[lawschool22]

I'm interested in DC biglaw and federal gov positions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't clerking be valuable for those goals? That's what I have seen/heard, but I could be off.

[OutCold]

I'm interested in DC biglaw and federal gov positions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't clerking be valuable for those goals? That's what I have seen/heard, but I could be off.

I think one of the most tangible benefits is a slight boost in government hiring.

[rayiner]

I'm interested in DC biglaw and federal gov positions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't clerking be valuable for those goals? That's what I have seen/heard, but I could be off.

The easiest way to get DC big law is as a 2L. Post-clerkship hiring in DC is very competitive. Look at the NALP data. A&P, Hogan, Sidley, and Skadden each had 1 "net clerk" (i.e. a post-clerk hire who wasn't a returning SA). K&E had 2. These same firms have summer classes of 15-45. Covington, Gibson, Latham, and Wilmer had 31 net between them; half of those were Covington.

[lawschool22]

I'm interested in DC biglaw and federal gov positions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't clerking be valuable for those goals? That's what I have seen/heard, but I could be off.

The easiest way to get DC big law is as a 2L. Post-clerkship hiring in DC is very competitive. Look at the NALP data. A&P, Hogan, Sidley, and Skadden each had 1 "net clerk" (i.e. a post-clerk hire who wasn't a returning SA). K&E had 2. These same firms have summer classes of 15-45. Covington, Gibson, Latham, and Wilmer had 31 net between them; half of those were Covington.

That makes sense. I guess then is there any tangible benefit to clerking between SA and starting as an associate, if you plan to lateral into government?

[rpupkin]

That makes sense. I guess then is there any tangible benefit to clerking between SA and starting as an associate, if you plan to lateral into government?

Yes.

[rayiner]

I'm interested in DC biglaw and federal gov positions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't clerking be valuable for those goals? That's what I have seen/heard, but I could be off.

The easiest way to get DC big law is as a 2L. Post-clerkship hiring in DC is very competitive. Look at the NALP data. A&P, Hogan, Sidley, and Skadden each had 1 "net clerk" (i.e. a post-clerk hire who wasn't a returning SA). K&E had 2. These same firms have summer classes of 15-45. Covington, Gibson, Latham, and Wilmer had 31 net between them; half of those were Covington.

That makes sense. I guess then is there any tangible benefit to clerking between SA and starting as an associate, if you plan to lateral into government?

I don't know much about PI/government hiring, so I'll defer to others on that. As I mentioned above, it's necessary if you want to get into an appellate group within your 2L SA firm. Besides that, it's a fun way to spend a year and you get to avoid a lot of junior-level document review.

[ndirish2010]

Well, I'm pretty sure I'll never have a better job than this one, so that means clerking can never be overrated to me.

On the "tangible benefit" scale, I wouldn't have my upcoming job if not for clerking (at least I don't think so).

[jkpolk]

I'd prefer almost anything to doing a litigation assignment, even in "repose" or whatever. Therefore, zero interest in clerking. It's a defensible position, and you shouldn't feel bad about having that position.

[Holly Golightly]

I'd prefer almost anything to doing a litigation assignment, even in "repose" or whatever. Therefore, zero interest in clerking. It's a defensible position, and you shouldn't feel bad about having that position.

That's nice, but really has nothing to do with this thread.

[jkpolk]

I'd prefer almost anything to doing a litigation assignment, even in "repose" or whatever. Therefore, zero interest in clerking. It's a defensible position, and you shouldn't feel bad about having that position.

That's nice, but really has nothing to do with this thread.

I think clerking is worthless for someone like me. Clerking actually would harm my career. So, no, I think it's relevant.

[Elston Gunn]

I'd prefer almost anything to doing a litigation assignment, even in "repose" or whatever. Therefore, zero interest in clerking. It's a defensible position, and you shouldn't feel bad about having that position.

That's nice, but really has nothing to do with this thread.

I think clerking is worthless for someone like me. Clerking actually would harm my career. So, no, I think it's relevant.

How? No one on TLS tells people who want to do corporate to clerk.

[jkpolk]

How? No one on TLS tells people who want to do corporate to clerk.

Sure they do. All sorts of people do. The point is just, there are plenty of people who don't need the credential and there are plenty of people who need the credential (or get off on research, legitimately want to meet a judge, etc.). Spending a year clerking, for "the experience" or because it's "better than big law," is a huge flame [and clerking is therefore overrated].

[Holly Golightly]

How? No one on TLS tells people who want to do corporate to clerk.

Sure they do. All sorts of people do. The point is just, there are plenty of people who don't need the credential and there are plenty of people who need the credential (or get off on research, legitimately want to meet a judge, etc.). Spending a year clerking, for "the experience" or because it's "better than big law," is a huge flame [and clerking is therefore overrated].

Wow. There are reasons to clerk that aren't fucking patronizing, too.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'd prefer almost anything to doing a litigation assignment, even in "repose" or whatever. Therefore, zero interest in clerking. It's a defensible position, and you shouldn't feel bad about having that position.

When has anyone said you should feel bad about having that position? (Which is still not the same as saying clerking is overrated.)

[Elston Gunn]

My top 3 reasons for clerking:

1. I just really badly want to meet a judge.
2. ???
3. ???

[jkpolk]

I'd prefer almost anything to doing a litigation assignment, even in "repose" or whatever. Therefore, zero interest in clerking. It's a defensible position, and you shouldn't feel bad about having that position.

When has anyone said you should feel bad about having that position? (Which is still not the same as saying clerking is overrated.)

My premise is that there is a feeling (at good schools and among people who are able to clerk) that everyone should clerk. Maybe it is because we're all strivers or maybe that is because the judicial clerkship office likes to fellate itself. I think that view is wrong and therefore clerking (for people who are making the decision) is overrated. I think for someone who doesn't like the work, and doesn't need the credential for some department of whatever job, there are better ways to spend the year.