Big Law Associates: Would You Rather Shovel Shit? Forum

[patogordo]

this thread is great btw

[ManoftheHour]

It's the latter. It's the worst 8 hrs there is. Covered in shit. Smelling shit. Moving shit. For no reason. A great sisephyian task without reason only suffering. But a true 40 hrs. And enough money in 20 years to retire

Three words: Headphones and iPod.

[LeDique]

Do I get any kind of mouth/nose protection?

[patogordo]

Do I get any kind of mouth/nose protection?

i just assumed you got whatever was industry standard for shit shovelers

[patogordo]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

[rpupkin]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

Why don't you just return to that job where you shoveled featherweight shit into a fire pit for $30k per year?

[patogordo]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

Why don't you just return to that job where you shoveled featherweight shit into a fire pit for $30k per year?

haven't you heard? the war in iraq is over.

[Gooner91]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

Why don't you just return to that job where you shoveled featherweight shit into a fire pit for $30k per year?

haven't you heard? the war in iraq is over.

Like really over? Or like a Phil Ochs "The War is Over" sense?

[patogordo]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

Why don't you just return to that job where you shoveled featherweight shit into a fire pit for $30k per year?

haven't you heard? the war in iraq is over.

Like really over? Or like a Phil Ochs "The War is Over" sense?

in the sense that there have been no US soldiers shoveling shit in iraq for years

[LeDique]

in the sense that there have been no US soldiers shoveling shit in iraq for years

this is what I meant when I said the Iraqis should take over

[patogordo]

in the sense that there have been no US soldiers shoveling shit in iraq for years

this is what I meant when I said the Iraqis should take over

they have been shitting in holes for millennia so they're probably pros by now

[yossarian]

i mean, i knew the thread would degrade to this, but not this quickly.

for the record, i was thinking human shit. which i doubt anywhere here has ever done. but yes, shoveling manure is not that bad (have only ever done for maybe 4 hours continuously).

again, I personally feel that the outside of work hours are being overlooked here. agreed that as far as manual labor goes, shoveling for 8 hours is bad, but not the end of the world. my issue is that you would smell shit 24/7 and it would be on everything.

my second greatest issue is personal satisfaction. now, i know most biglaw folks say there is no/little feeling of personal satisfaction in associate work. i believe them, but i imagine most lawyers believe their careers to have been meaningful after 20 years. i don't know, maybe you would rationalize the meaning in shit-shoveling too.

the intangibles of struggling to be proud of your job/find a potential partner/etc. are real concerns.

also, re: retirement
20 years at $160k is probably enough to retire, though 10 years is super unreasonable. if one lives on half and banks half, less taxes (in flyover country because shit), and uses the entire COL increase, one would have banked about $1mil and that does not account for interest earned over career. that means we're at ~$1.5mil at retirement. If you could make ~4% and use it all, that's ~$60k yearly. Probably not quite enough. Considering you'd be making ~$230k by the end after COL increases w/ consistent 2% inflation, and considering that your house would already be paid for, you could contribute more to retirement during the last ten years, bring the total closer to $2mil and draw closer to $80k/year. So, retirement is maybe doable at 20 years, but forget about paying for the kids' college. (Or at least not all of it).

ETA: Yes, this is a really bougie picture of retirement. It assumes living on nearly twice the average American's income. It assumes having more in savings than most Americans will ever see. I just figure this is the kind of retirement that was being debated.

[Kafkaesquire]

the intangibles of struggling to be proud of your job/find a potential partner/etc. are real concerns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHcrhfKxXYs

ETA the plug: a bit of an episode of Frasier where Roz dates a trashman. It works out alright until she brings him to one of Frasier's house parties.

[unc0mm0n1]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

Yeah, there is (was) a job where you clean out the garbage from the projects trash chutes in Chicago. Most of the high rises have been torn down, but back when they were up, the City would hire a day labor service to do it because the Trashmen refused to go there. People literally threw full diapers down there with no bags or anything. Apparently you clean it all up and wash the area out. The city paid the labor service like 16 bucks an hour and they give the workers $6/hr. Oh they also gave them flimsy gloves, rubber boots, paper surgical masks and 5 dollar hard hat you know for the falling crap bombs. Oh and they projects in Chicago were very dangerous and they provided no security. As a last bit of screw you they charge you 4 dollars for transportation out to the job site and 2 dollars for safety protection. I can hook you up if the whole law thing doesn't work out.

[patogordo]

does anyone know of a job matching this description? for less pay, obviously? i'm a little concerned i'm not gonna cut it in law school based on kefka's post.

Yeah, there is (was) a job where you clean out the garbage from the projects trash chutes in Chicago. Most of the high rises have been torn down, but back when they were up, the City would hire a day labor service to do it because the Trashmen refused to go there. People literally threw full diapers down there with no bags or anything. Apparently you clean it all up and wash the area out. The city paid the labor service like 16 bucks an hour and they give the workers $6/hr. Oh they also gave them flimsy gloves, rubber boots, paper surgical masks and 5 dollar hard hat you know for the falling crap bombs. Oh and they projects in Chicago were very dangerous and they provided no security. As a last bit of screw you they charge you 4 dollars for transportation out to the job site and 2 dollars for safety protection. I can hook you up if the whole law thing doesn't work out.

tempting but i have this irrational hatred of wind so i don't think chicago is gonna work for me.

[Theopliske8711]

my second greatest issue is personal satisfaction. now, i know most biglaw folks say there is no/little feeling of personal satisfaction in associate work. i believe them, but i imagine most lawyers believe their careers to have been meaningful after 20 years. i don't know, maybe you would rationalize the meaning in shit-shoveling too.

You can do plenty of good with all that money you've saved while shoveling shit, and thereby create some meaning. With proper investments, it could really explode. Also, since your job is 9-5, the rest of the day you can look up what to invest in, get into other hobbies, etc.

Smelling like shit the rest of the day? Why can't you just shower?

[Kikero]

Is it 20 years of shoveling shit vs 20 years of BigLaw, 20 years as a 1st year associate, or however long you last in BigLaw + whatever you do afterwards?

Either way, I think this hypo is pretty unrealistic. No way clients are willing to pay for juniors to shovel their shit.

[yossarian]

my second greatest issue is personal satisfaction. now, i know most biglaw folks say there is no/little feeling of personal satisfaction in associate work. i believe them, but i imagine most lawyers believe their careers to have been meaningful after 20 years. i don't know, maybe you would rationalize the meaning in shit-shoveling too.

You can do plenty of good with all that money you've saved while shoveling shit, and thereby create some meaning. With proper investments, it could really explode. Also, since your job is 9-5, the rest of the day you can look up what to invest in, get into other hobbies, etc.

Smelling like shit the rest of the day? Why can't you just shower?

I believe it would seep into your skin, get caught in hairs, etc. I'm not saying you'd be intolerable to be around, but I really doubt it would ever truly go away.

[84651846190]

but how much debt do i need to get into and how many years of schooling do i need to shovel shit?

[84651846190]

Either way, I think this hypo is pretty unrealistic. No way clients are willing to pay for juniors to shovel their shit.

They've paid for junior associates to do even more menial work than shoveling shit. Trust me. In fact, they do it all the time.

[AllTheLawz]

The majority response in this thread (i.e. in favor of shoveling) is a sad commentary on the people that post here. I've worked manual labor for good money and worked slightly better than big law type hours for good money. Anyone who has ever actually worked manual labor because they had to is probably taking the air-conditioned office, snack/coffee breaks and hour-long lunches in a heart beat.

[LeDique]

The majority response in this thread (i.e. in favor of shoveling) is a sad commentary on the people that post here. I've worked manual labor for good money and worked slightly better than big law type hours for good money. Anyone who has ever actually worked manual labor because they had to is probably taking the air-conditioned office, snack/coffee breaks and hour-long lunches in a heart beat.

Or is it a sad commentary on law/law school

[Pneumonia]

The majority response in this thread (i.e. in favor of shoveling) is a sad commentary on the people that post here. I've worked manual labor for good money and worked slightly better than big law type hours for good money. Anyone who has ever actually worked manual labor because they had to is probably taking the air-conditioned office, snack/coffee breaks and hour-long lunches in a heart beat.

disagree. 9-5 and the 160k are pretty sweet.

[AllTheLawz]

The majority response in this thread (i.e. in favor of shoveling) is a sad commentary on the people that post here. I've worked manual labor for good money and worked slightly better than big law type hours for good money. Anyone who has ever actually worked manual labor because they had to is probably taking the air-conditioned office, snack/coffee breaks and hour-long lunches in a heart beat.

disagree. 9-5 and the 160k are pretty sweet.

9-5 of physical labor under horrible conditions is like a 14-hour day in big law, every day. Honestly, if you just want to make decent money (at least outside of NYC) and aren't trying to have a chance of making partner you can hide out in biglaw for a few years, work 50-65 hrs (on average) and get out with a relatively low-pressure 80-120k 50 hr/week in-house job. Obviously this is an oversimplification and nothing is guaranteed but this isn't exactly an unheard of route to take.

[Gooner91]

Can I live wherever I want if I am shoveling poo for 160k?